What else can I do for my daughter to want me in her life

Good point Lolo! There are many posts about access to grandchildren. I do love mine - but my own children are the closer, more vital relationship!

I’ve never commented on an estrangement thread before, but have read many here. Forgive me if I’m speaking out of turn, but I don’t understand the emphasis being on grandchildren and not your own adult children. Why is it so gut wrenching to even entertain being taken away from these children when your own children seem to be a means through which to access them? OP - I’m not sure what outcome you are looking for here, is it to reconcile with your daughter or to facilitate seeing her children?

Panda, you say 'my husband won't have them here anymore. Why have you let him dictate to you and exclude your own grandchildren? That's just not on - it's your home too!

Isn't it strange how some people can extrapolate information from an OP that was never actually given? Is this a case of personal experience preventing some people from being able to read the OP exactly as it is, and not projecting what they think they've read? It makes following a thread very confusing because I have to keep going back to the OP to see if I missed a stated comment rather than another posters assumption/self projection.

I've seen all that in my time here, not the word evil but words to that effect and all the rest I mentioned. I'm sorry I just don't get it. I find it really heartbreaking x

I haven't seen anyone referring to EAC as evil Yennifer.

TBF it's perfectly understandable for a parent who was estranged and then is back in their AC's life to find it difficult to trust that it wont happen again. It isn't about their pain being bigger than their AC's, it's about a genuine and realistic fear of finding themselves estranged in the future.

It's questionable IMO that the OP's D has reconciled the OP is "taking crap" from her and "feeling anxious all the time".

If AC are "unhappy with their relationship with their parents" they have 2 options don't they. The can estrange themselves and their children or they can allow their children to have a relationship with their GP's while having a minimum of contact themselves.

There are EP's who have virtually no contact with their AC but see their GC. It's not ideal but I've yet to see one of them complain that "that's not good enough"; on the contrary, they seem simply to be grateful for what they do have.

I don't get how some AC will ever be in a win situation. They decide certain things make them unhappy and pull away asking for change then estrange if they don't get it and are called evil. They reconsile and EPs don't have to change but they then never seem to trust again and don't get over it and their pain is bigger than their child's. Or EPs get to see the grandchildren but EC is not wanting a relationship so that's not good enough and the grandchildren get cut off. It all seems so extreme. How can children who are unhappy with their relationship with their parents ever get out of this no win situation?

So true Gagajo "no family is perfect". How foolish of your mum to miss out on her GGC's christening; I can understand how hurt you and your DD would have been.

I don't agree with agnurse (she wont be surprised I'm sure). The OP didn't say she'd told her D she had to invite her sister, the OP said she tried to reason with her which is entirely different. I see nothing wrong in a parent trying to diffuse bad feeling between their AC.

There's nothing fair at all about the OP looking after the children while her D and s.i.l. enjoyed their honeymoon to then be estranged by them for 3 years. Regardless of whether or not alternative arrangements could be made, she was used and on their return was kept away from her GC for 3 years.

What exactly is the OP supposed to be sincerely apologising for? Her D should have apologised for telling her mother "she wasn't bothered if (she) was there or not and for estranging her for 3 years.

For goodness sake, are parents expected to be their AC's emotional punch bags when it suits them? Are they expected to take being estranged from their AC and GC on the chin, and then when it suits their AC to be in their lives, to take the crap they're given and put up with "feeling anxious all the time" for fear of having their GC taken away from then again?

Not directly Smileless2012. But all this 'I'm so lucky my child is X' or, 'Thankfully we don't have to suffer this.'

There are other forums more suited to thinly covered gloating. And no family is perfect so that sort of approach is dishonest too.

I DO think agnurse may have some kind of point though. The christening of my grandson has caused a huge rift between my mother and me. SiL was being an arse about it, not wanting to attend and talked my mother into not attending either. My mum didn't see sense enough to see what was important on THAT day was her great grandchild. He is the absolute apple of my eye and both myself and my daughter were hugely hurt that the babies great granny couldn't just happily welcome him to the family and put SiL to one side. IF she genuinely and honestly apologised, possibly we could move forward, but she just avoids the subject.

I wouldn’t put up with this at all. It’s not going to be any good for your or your husband’s health, and quite frankly, not good for the grandchildren either. As much as it may hurt, I feel you should say you’re not entertaining this any longer until they behave in a civilised fashion. Try to fix the original problem. It sounds like it kicked off with the wedding, so it may be easier than you think, but no more babysitting until it is resolved.

It was your daughter's wedding. It was not your place to tell her that she had to invite her sister. I do agree that it wasn't on to have you care for the GC and then not speak to you for three years, but in all fairness, depending on how close to the wedding the issue with her sister came up, we have to keep in mind that she may not have been able to find childcare at the last minute.

I think you need to offer a sincere apology to your daughter. You also have to determine how much you want to be involved with her children and how that's going to look. If you don't want to go over there, and your husband won't allow the children to the house, it may be the best option to meet them periodically in a public setting.

I would offer do do the work and make the changes nessessary for my daughter to want me in her life. I think that's part of my responsibility as a parent. Even if it can be painful for me at times. Whatever happened to my daughter to make her pull away from me, whether it is my fault or not, I would want to be there to help her overcome it x

Gagajo I don't see any posters here bragging about their 'perfect families', was that in the post that's been deleted?

It's a horrible situation Panda. I really feel for you and wish I could suggest a way out.

I think your DH senses he doesn't want to see you so badly treated and has used his own power to protect you.

If you want the children at yours can you suggest that DH makes himself scarce for an afternoon and so it's just you and the Grandkids?

Change or alter the dynamic - it could make a difference.
My DD seems to only text me. Is this the modern way? If yours is like this too, I'm doubly empathetic. It's so hard to know what people are thinking.

I read somewhere that the best way to talk about a serious subject is side by side. Either on a walk or in the car but without eye contact.

And for those of you on here, taking the opportunity to humble brag about your own 'perfect' families, this is NOT the time to do it. Think about the effect on the OP. Have a bit of empathy, FGS.

I would do whatever I had to, to maintain a relationship with my grandchild. I really think your husband is being unreasonable, saying he doesn't want them in your house. It is YOUR home too. If you want your grandchildren there and he doesn't he should go out.

If those are the conditions your daughter imposes, accept them. One day your grandchildren will be old enough to have an independent relationship with you. Until then, tolerate the conditions.

I’m sorry for your situation OP. I read it as starlady did, that you eventually did take your younger daughters side in the wedding situation?

Fortunately, there is nothing you can do to make this relationship better at this point. What I would suggest is that you draw up your own boundaries on what you will and won’t accept , and go from there.

I have to admit though, I’m extremely curious about what your daughters were fighting about with regards to the wedding.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I wouldn’t do it smileless. There’s got to be respect and in this situation I don’t see any, my heart goes out to panda, and everyone else that’s treated disrespectfully by their families, when they are helping them, it’s so hurtful. Life’s too short to be so nasty!

I must say Urmstongran and TendyNannie that I feel as you do.

I couldn't put up with the toxic and stressful nature of the OP's situation even if it meant not seeing our GC. I know that the OP's situation is what ours would be like if we were to 'reconcile' with our ES and his wife, which is why it isn't something I'd want to do.

Goodness me this is an awful situation for you panda, you are feeling it from all sides of the family, your daughter son in law and your husband , how childish is this. Totally agree with urmstongran There’s no way I would put up with all this toxic goings on just to keep access. It’s not healthy! Totally ridiculous! You are worth much much more, let them get on with it

Would you translate please Alexa?

I’ve never commented upon an estrangement thread before as thankfully I have no experience of it. However, much as I adore my grandchildren I would not be walking on eggshells with our daughter to keep access. That said, maybe we are just lucky that she has a lovely sunny nature (and married a man of a similar disposition).

These toxic, stressful relationships must be awful.

I would very sadly have to walk away from all these demands and controls. If they choose estrangement so be it. Absolutely their choice. I’d live with it. My own self esteem wouldn’t let me be any other way. I’d just keep thinking ‘it was what they CHOSE’.

Such an upsetting situation to be in Panda, you have my heartfelt sympathy.

My overall feeling having read your post is that you need to stand up for yourself with your D, your s.i.l. and your H. Doing so may not necessarily improve the situation but could go along way to enabling you to deal with what's happening.

My answer to your question as to what more you can do for your D to want you in her life is I'm afraid, nothing. There's a huge difference between someone wanting you in their life because of the relationship they have with you, and wanting you because of what you do for them.

From what you've posted it seems that your D is using the love you have for your GC as a stick to beat you with. No contact for 3 years after you looked after the children so they could have their honeymoon, and now, it's OK for you to look after your GC but your s.i.l. wont have you in the house.

We've been estranged from our youngest son and only GC for 7 years so I totally understand your fear that if you don't do what your D and your s.i.l. want, they may stop you from seeing them altogether. They've done it before so who is to say they wont do it again.

Your D and s.i.l. know that this unspoken threat hangs over you and they are using it to their advantage.

IMO your D wasn't annoyed that you picked a side, she was annoyed that you didn't pick her side. Any parent would have done what you did, and try to smooth things over between 2 of their AC especially when one was going to be banned from the other's wedding. You D's response was childish and cruel.

I agree with Starlady with regard to having the children in your home. It's your home too and he's out of order saying you can't have your GC there.

Lesley's advice is spot on here, put precious things away when they're coming so there's no possibility of them being broken.

As for your s.i.l., has he given any reason for you not being welcome? If this goes back to the incident between your D's and your attempt to resolve the matter then he has a cheek IMO, having had you look after the children so he could enjoy his honeymoon. If that is the reason, then he should be man enough to say so or to say what his reasons are.

I do understand you not wanting to lose contact with your GC. My heart goes out to you and all GP's who lose their GC that they've known and loved. We're fortunate that we never knew ours so in that sense it has been easier for us.

Perhaps you should think about reducing the amount of time you spend looking after the children. I realise this carries the real risk that your D will be annoyed and you'll be estranged again and only you can decide whether or not the way you're being treated, "taking crap", feeling at the end of your tether and feeling "anxious all the time" is something you can sustain long term.

I hope you can get something resolved, if only that's having your GC in your own home to relieve some of the financial and practical pressures of seeing them.

Why not ask your SUD to send her BENKs over to you with their mobile phones /bathing pool membership/ bowling range fees and so forth to keep them amused?

I suppose young EGKs, rather like puppies, need spaces cleared of breakables . I forget what age you said the USC are. Are they young enough for finger painting and modelling clay?