"My parents did their best" - Really, even though it was emotionally and physically abusive?

You have a strange idea of what a happy family is rosecarmel , Something like the Waltons no doubt.

A happy functioning family is one that has its ups and downs, disagreements and resolutions. Times of trouble and disagreement but times of forgiveness adjustment and tolerance.

I am fascinated that you have managed to know the inner fuctionings of so many holidays. I do not know the inner functionings of even one.

I've never met a happy family, not ever- Some people individually seem happier than others at times, but it's temporary- Every single family I met has shown signs of struggle and dysfunction, tension and inequality-

It's parents that paint the perfectly happy family portrait, children not so much- Especially once grown up-

Is someone says "take me as I am or not at all" I tend to go with the second option and yet they can't understand why lol x

Anyone who can't admit to the idea that the way they do things is wrong to others and that individual people need to be treated like individuals is going to have broken relationships x

Greymar

I tried very hard not to be like my parents, luckily my husband had had a very happy childhood, and was more aware than I was, about what and wasn’t important, he was a fairly laid back parent, always kind, still is.

Had I married someone similar to myself, we may have carried on making the same mistakes.

I think an absolute key issue is a little chink of self examination, a questioning of self. I understand that many of the generation who have been through the war, are likely to avoid therapy and self examination.
If the abuser were to say " I'm wondering now if I got it wrong. I made mistakes" that would go some way to meeting me half way.

Instead, they firmly adhere to their view that I am the cause, I am deficient in some way. I have had to put in years and years of effort not to repeat patterns with my own kids. Some things I got badly wrong.

Anybody interested in this area, take a look at a writer named Caroline Spring.

Having watched this happen to our ES I recognise your description Madgran.

He was healthy, has no underlying mental health issues that we are aware of and came from a totally normal loving family. Despite this, he is in an emotionally abusive and controlling relationship.

Thank goodness for the kindness of others

I did that too! Always at my neighbours house, I went to her with things I couldn't talk to mother about x

Yes the way we're parenting influences the way our personalities develop.
No, not all people who experienced abuse in childhood go on to abuse their own children.

I think I was that odd girl who hung around in other people’s houses, where the atmosphere was so different to ours, I expect people wondered when I was ever going to go home, but I was fascinated by how other mums and dads behaved.

Me too!

I think had anyone asked, my parents would have said they were good parents, I remember once, during a row, my dad saying they had taken parenthood much more seriously than I did.

On paper yes, we were clothed, fed, went to chapel every Sunday. But I can’t ever remember anyone laughing, I’m pretty sure I was never hugged, no endearments were ever used, we were never complimented, only criticised. I could be a lot more specific, but you get to drift.

I think I was that odd girl who hung around in other people’s houses, where the atmosphere was so different to ours, I expect people wondered when I was ever going to go home, but I was fascinated by how other mums and dads behaved.

So I think, that as long as there are other influences in you life, history is less likely to repeat itself.

I don’t think that that it really happens that way though. Either the person is unhealthy, due to underlying MI, or they have already been primed by disordered relationships to tolerate abuse and toxicity. I don’t know any happy, healthy well adjusted person with zero mental illness and a totally normal loving family find themselves in abusive controlling relationships. When those those folks sense danger, they leave, and they are decently in tune with their gut and have a healthy normal meter so abusers don’t even waste their time.

Although on paper that makes perfect sense, in real life I think it is a simplistic view of how abusive relationships develop, how people get into them, why people stay in them, why people do or don't leave and why abusers bother, subtly or otherwise!

I wish it was that everyone brought up in a "totally normal family" (by whoever's definition!!) , with no mental health issues and who is happy and well adjusted never found themselves in a relationship where gradually the dynamics of that relationship, the insiduous but cleverly made expectations begin to take over and change their sense of self. Where they cant see the wood for the trees because of that relationship dynamics that crept up on them but they are so deep in the forest they don't even know they need to get out anymore and their new norm is what they are.

Anyone who has watched this happen to someone (with no mental issues, from a "normal happy family) and then supported them when they come out of the forest (by death of a partner maybe, by support from someone who manages to break down some branches maybe or by something else) will recognise my description.

Others may not believe it can happen and will be adamant that before the relationship that person MUST have been the product of a "NOT normal happy family", there MUST have been mental issues or significant mothering issues or whatever. So be it we believe/ know what we believe/know and are all different

If you take a parent that isn't seeing that believes their family dynamic is normal, they'd be in for a shock if they all of a sudden saw it was not- And they'd experience disbelief if a member chooses to leave it, and still not see anything other than someone leaving-

I don’t think that that it really happens that way though. Either the person is unhealthy, due to underlying MI, or they have already been primed by disordered relationships to tolerate abuse and toxicity. I don’t know any happy, healthy well adjusted person with zero mental illness and a totally normal loving family find themselves in abusive controlling relationships. When those those folks sense danger, they leave, and they are decently in tune with their gut and have a healthy normal meter so abusers don’t even waste their time.

notanan, it's a multi-faceted gem, and can mean different things depending on what angle you look at it-

But in an unhealthy relationship 'love' does hurt and for someone who hasn't experienced that before it will go against their perception of normal.

They will experience the hurt themselves and in some cases see how those they had a loving relationship with are also being hurt.

Because of their perception of normal. So its easier to recognise that "love" isnt supposed to hurt if you've had healthy normal love.

How can someone whose close relationships were healthy not know or be able to see when they find themselves in an un healthy relationship, when their previous experiences have been healthy?

I said it. It does not mean that stopping "seeing" someone will stop you from being like them.

It means that if all of the close relationships you have been in or witnessed have been unhealthy, you wont know any different and even if you strive for different, you wont have the tools to be a way that you havent experienced or witnessed

Whoever said: "you can be what you can't see"

Thank you!

There is no such thing as a perfect parent,we all muddle through to the best of our abilities.Sometimes it all goes well other times there are tears and tantrums .Different children react in different ways to similar situations.Add into the mix that many of us had parents who lived and fought through a war and had the scars ,mental and physical to show for it and we should perhaps be a bit more understanding before passing judgement .

Nothing to add to the above - Except: You all should be so proud of yourselves, whether you know it or not, you will change your families history of dysfunction for the better.

Let everything happen to you
Beauty and terror
Just keep going
No feeling is final

By the poet Ranier Marie Rilke.

Trauma physically changes you. You cant just decide to be de traumatised and unaffected.

You can develop coping strategies but scars never fully heal. They leave scar tissue it'll never be as before

Smileless

It is possible (and recommended) to distinguish between a child's behaviour and the child him/herself. For instance, you can say "your behaviour right now is silly/selfish", which is different from telling the child, "you are silly/selfish". I'm reminded of the line from the film "Raising Helen": "By the way, you're not a bad person, but this is very bad behaviour".

The idea is that if a child is constantly told he/she is bad, stupid, selfish, silly, etc., he/she will eventually start to believe it. This can lead to the child acting out or not bothering to try new activities, based on a belief that he/she can't change. The idea is, "Well, if Mum says I'm bad/stupid/selfish/silly, I must be that way, and so it's okay for me to behave that way. I can't help it." If you identify that the behaviour is problematic, the child can change his/her behaviour.