Dealing with estrangement - Q&A

"... but don't think they would estrange her because of all she has promised to buy for them."

Don't be so sure of that. Maybe that's why she has promised so much - b/c she fears being CO (cut off). I've heard of more surprising estrangements when parents/GPs have been doing a lot for an AC and family.

Then again, she may simply not think it's her place to get in the middle.

Agree w/ Smileless' post, muffin. Also, want to add, sorry to say, but you don't know what your ED and ESIL are telling the other GPs about the situation (if anything at all).

I'm not sure how you know that they spend "all their time" w/ his family since you don't get to be there. Is someone telling you this?

"... the wedding was amazing but i worried where all the money was coming from, none of our family were invited, only my husband and daughter but nearly a hundred of his family and friends,..."

Perhaps his parents paid for some or all of the wedding? Also, I'm a bit confused... are you saying your DH and DD were invited but not you (you don't mention yourself)? And if it's not too painful to say, did DH and DD go w/o you?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. And I know we're really waiting for Jane Jackson. I'm just trying to get a clearer picture for my own understaning.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Glad that you've started the Memory Box, Flygirl and that you're saving money for your GC instead of sending gifts. Very good ideas, IMO.

I'm not sure how the parents will react if they discover the "secret" email account. It might be better to wait to set that up till the GC are old enough not to need their parents permission to keep in contact w/ people. Hopefully, when they are older, they can also find you on FB.

I'm sorry your son and family ignored DH's milestone birthday and that you were treated so badly regarding the Baptism. Actually, under the circumstances, I'm surprised they invited you and DH at all. Either they disagreed on whether or not to invite you two or (sigh) just did it out of a sense of duty. In the first case, there may have been a compromise, as in, "Ok, we'll invite them to the ceremony but not to the house afterwards." In the second case, it may have been more a matter of doing the bare minimum of what they felt they "had to" do. Then again, maybe they are just conflicted w/in themselves. Who knows? Whichever it was, I'm so very sorry.

I'm also sorry you haven't received a TY, but (sigh) I doubt that you will. Please just take pleasure in knowing you got to be there for GS and gift him for taking this big step in his life.

I often think about that muffin surely the GP's who are seeing our GC must realise how heartbreaking it is for us not to be able to see them!

Maybe they do say something and are ignored or maybe they're afraid to say anything in case they become estranged too.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

That's a very important point to make Flygirl. The general assumption appears to be that GP's become estranged from their GC because the children's parents are no longer together, and one of the parent's refuses to allow the parents' of their former wife/husband/partner to have a relationship with the children.

I totally agree that "if adult children both 'agree' to ignore you and make access difficult, when they are still very much "together" in their relationship, and they manipulate situations by using their children like pawns in a game, the situation is hopeless".

I noticed that the support group in Bristol (the reason this thread was started) says on its Home page that it is mainly about the grandparents who are estranged from their GC due to the separation/divorce of their adult children, which has caused friction.

I just wanted to point out that, in many cases, the estrangement can still happen when their children are still very much together in their relationship. When this is the case, as it is in our situation, we are totally powerless to change things, as grandparents have no rights at all.

If adult children both 'agree' to ignore you and make access difficult, when they are still very much "together" in their relationship, and they manipulate situations by using their children like pawns in a game, the situation is hopeless.
I just wish I didn't feel so terribly sad all the time. Yes it certainly does help to talk. I don't want to keep harping on to friends and boring them to tears, but seeing them all enjoying normal relationships with their grandchildren is sometimes like a dagger through my heart. (My friend has a grandchild living in Hong Kong, and she sees that little boy more often than we do living 2 miles away).
Hey ho. Thanks all.

It does looks as you say, that you've come to the end of the line Flygirl. There's only so much any of us can do and you can't do anymore.

The email account idea is brilliant, I'll have a word with Mr. S. about that.

It's difficult for some people to accept that an AC would estrange their loving, caring and supportive parents and in many cases their entire family, without 'good' reason.

I still remember how relieved I was 7 years ago to find here on GN other EP's who were going through what we were and it still helps to talk about it here.

Thank you all for your kind support and advice. The suggestion of the Memory Box is already up and running! My eldest grandson had his 10th birthday last month and I bought 2 identical cards. I wrote identical messages in them...I sent one, (doubt that he saw it) and card #2 is already in the box.

My daughter also had the great idea of maybe setting up an email account for them (she will help with it). Only she/I will have the password. Whenever we feel like it, we can then write little messages to them. If they do contact us when they are older, we shall give them the password. Hopefully, they will then have a healthy "inbox" to read and digest for the years they have missed being with us. In the meantime I have always had a small savings account for each grandson, which I add to monthly, (in lieu of the money I would be spending on them if I was allowed to take them out) and for birthdays/Xmas/Easter, I will continue to put money into their savings, instead of attempting to deliver presents which are never acknowledged. It will be there waiting for them when and if they come to me.
In answer to the suggestion that we write to my son and DIL, it was already done, several years ago. It was a kind, well thought out, heartfelt letter, but we never had a response. I was told by my son that it had gone straight in the bin. (Considerate, isn't he...)
I recently dug my copy out, after our disastrous Christmas, to read it once again. With dismay I realised nothing has changed at all in the years that have passed, and everything in that original letter still stands today.

I had forgotten to mention, that our youngest GS who is 4, was baptised in December, 3 days before Xmas and 4 days after my husband's milestone birthday, which was not acknowledged. We were only informed about the baptism by text, the week before, and we were not given the time of the ceremony. We only found out the time 2 days before; again, having to ask. Sadly my hubby was too ill to attend, and I had to go alone. DIL totally blanked me, did not make eye contact, nor did she say hello or even nod/smile. After the ceremony, I was wondering what would happen - (as in, if we would be going back to their house for a little Christening celebration). Apart from me, only DIL's close family were there (the ones that are apparently everything we "lack"). Her sister + boyfriend were Godparents. It was dark now, about 4.30pm. I waited patiently in the rainy car park for one of them to say something to me, but they just literally jumped in their cars and drove off. I was back home again within the hour. I know from my daughter that they all went back to the house, as she lives nearby and saw them all arrive and go in. The lovely personalised gift (that I had jumped through absolute hoops to get made in time), has not even been acknowledged to this day.

So, dear friends, you can see that we have come to the end of the line. I am acutely aware that some people I have spoken to are probably thinking "there must be more to this than meets the eye" or, "they must have done something to cause this bad feeling", but, hand on heart, we truly haven't.
Thanks for your help and virtual hugs, I have taken it on board. Xx

Flygirl, my heart is breaking for you and DH! IMO, you have been given a lot of good advice here. And I'm glad you and DH have come to realize that you have to back off for your own health and sanity.

It seems to me that there were a lot of tensions and mismatched expectations between you/DH and DS/DIL. You expected to see them and your GSs more often and for longer periods, DIL expects you to say things like, "How did the boys enjoy Christmas?" even when your wondering why DS is only stopping by to get their gifts and go. DIL feels it's enough for you and DH to see DS and your GSs on the rare occasion that they have you over, but you don't agree and feel she should at least take a moment to say, "Hello." Sadly, you have had to practically beg to see your GSs in the past, but just as sadly, that begging probably made the tension worse.

Hopefully, now that you are backing off, DS/DIL will calm down and, in time, reach out to you. If not, I agree w/ the poster who said that, eventually, your GC may reach out to you (when they are old enough). Since you have had some lovely times together, I'm sure the GC have fond memories of you. No matter what adult issues their parents gripe about (if they do), those cannot spoil such memories. Hugs!

Notsoold, I'm another one who is glad you have come to a place of peace.

I find it hard to understand, Funnygran why some women have no interest in letting their kids know their dad's side of the family, even in the case of divorce, and enjoying their love and attention. Perhaps, though, it's enough for XDIL to work out her new life, right now, and, hopefully, some visitation for your DS. In fact, I hope your DS will get ample visitation, Funnygran and be able to share some of it w/ you and, if he wishes, other members of your family. And meanwhile, I hope you find that community support group that you're asking about,.

Riverdance, I think you're in the wrong place by error. Please go back to the list of Forums and click on the Food group instead. IMO, your questions will fit in better there.

As you've said Flygirl, for your own health and sanity you have to stand back. This is an awful situation but there's nothing else you can do.

You can continue to send gifts and cards however, if it were me I'd stick to cards for birthdays and Christmas. We have a memory box for our GC and when buying cards always buy 2 of each, one is sent and the other is for their memory box.

You could still ask about seeing your GC without begging and pleading to do so. As for your d.i.l.'s text, what rubbish. Even if she hadn't told you there was no point in replying as she wouldn't read it, it would have been a complete waste of time doing so and IMO wasn't worth replying too anyway.

Like all EGP's you worry about what lies the children are being told, we've done that too but please try not to think and worry about that.

Your GC do know you. They haven't seen very much of you but they have those memories of the "fun and giggles" they've shared with you.

The hardest and most painful thing for you to achieve is acceptance. The pain never leaves but with acceptance eventually comes some peace and more restful sleep.

I'm so sorry that you and your husband are being treated with such cruelty.

Flygirl, how awful for you and dh, and your grandchildren missing out. It seems as if whatever you do or font for its wrong, it seems from an outsider that your dil, is jealous and controlling, If you have tried all means to find out the problem, I can't see what ekes you can do. I suppose it's out if the question if you are not on good terms to write and ask for a chance to meet with her and your son to find out the problem. For your own mental health, put you and your husband first now, you deserve it, no one know how many years you will have each other, so make the most of them. I am pretty sure it's not ruining their lives, maybe one day those grand children will seek you out. You can still send cards, presents too if they are acknowledged, if they are not just keep what you would have given them to one side until you do see them. I would give anything to have my husband and I just hope you can botgecoutceach other first. Your son at least should step up but it seems he won't. ?

Flygirl I can’t give you any advice in your awful situation but I am horrified to read your post. Just want you to know someone is thinking of you. Please look after yourselves. Maybe when the grandchildren are old enough to act for themselves they will want to make contact with you. A long time to wait but this is what we hope for too. x

Oh my goodness. Where do I start? Despite my son having a happy childhood (we think!) (with wonderful, warm and loving grandparents, aunts and uncles, who contributed to his life and well being, and whom he saw regularly) he and his long term partner have NEVER invited us to be part of their children's lives.
Our eldest grandson, who is autistic (but it is not discussed), is 10, and his younger brother (not autistic) is 4. For almost 10 years we have had to almost beg to see them. At best, we have been given a "time slot" for an hour, at the most, usually at really inconvenient times in the evening and when the boys are tired, before bed. (They only live 2 miles away, btw).
We have never, ever, been invited to babysit, attend a school production, pick them up from school, have them for a few hours in our home and/or take them out for the day (despite always asking, and being given endless excuses as to why we can't). Have to almost beg and negotiate to see them just once in the summer school holidays. They have never even been in our car. We probably see them 3 or 4 times a year, for an hour, and always accompanied by their father. We have asked why this should be (we both felt so inadequate) but weren't given a reason. We have only seen our eldest grandchild on 2 out of his 10 birthdays. We have never been invited to celebrate with the youngest boy on his birthday(s). My DIL's mother and sister are there every single day and have always been "trusted" to babysit daily, from birth, especially when DIL returned to work part time. They are also invited to all the "normal" events including birthdays and Xmas, as is my DIL's father, who is divorced from her mother. As you can imagine, over the years this has caused such resentment to develop within us, as we simply cannot understand why we are not wanted or even needed. We feel that we are good, honest people who could offer our gorgeous grandsons so, so much love and fun (especially as we understand autism, as my son is also on the spectrum, albeit high functioning).
They never contact us, even to ask how we are. We always have to make that first call and almost beg to see our grandchildren. My dear daughter, who is a bit younger than my son, has also tried to get him to see reason, on our behalf, and for her efforts she has also been "pushed off the radar" for daring to voice an opinion. So the 2 boys are now 'minus' a wonderful, warm, caring aunty, too, and we found out (youngest grandson let it slip) that they are not allowed to speak about her in the home, either.
If my husband and I ever do go to their house (a very rare treat) our DIL "hides" upstairs until we go. Doesn't even shout "hello" from above. At Xmas they never even enquire what we will be doing, or if we'd like to see the boys at some point. (I work shifts, sometimes away from home, and often my husband, who is 70, is totally alone). They know this but never make contact, even by phone. This last Christmas, 2019, we asked so many times when we could see our grandchildren, to at least give them their gifts, but were continually fobbed off. I had to hand over my grandsons' Xmas presents to my son, on my doorstep on Xmas Eve, as he "couldn't stop". (He didn't bring the boys with him, either, and to date, we haven't even heard if they liked their gifts). ?. No thank you's, even by phone.
However, nothing could have prepared us for a totally unexpected, vitriolic and hateful message we received from our DIL early on Boxing Day morning, accusing us of "not even caring enough to ask if the boys had had a nice Christmas" (I was still in bed when her message was written!!), and "thank goodness for her mum and sister, who give her children SO much more love than we ever could, and are apparently everything that we 'lack' ". She told us not to bother to respond to her message as she wouldn't be reading it. My son always backs his partner up, which I guess is normal, but he shows absolutely no feelings or empathy for us and makes no effort to make things right. We haven't heard from either of them since the hateful, cruel text, and have finally had to accept that after 10 years of trying, for our own health and sanity, we have to completely stand back, withdraw from this toxic situation, and let them go. We really feel something is very wrong with their whole family set-up. Something just does not sit right with us. I would go as far as to say I think that one, or both of them, have mental issues to be able to be this cruel towards us for no reason. We truly can't think of anything that we have, or have not done, other than wanting a normal relationship with them. I can only think that we are dealing with the worst kind of narcissm here. Even if we take our needs as grandparents completely out of the equation, they are actually denying their own sons the opportunity to get to know and love us, their other grandparents, and to enable us to enrich their lives. That in itself is cruel? My fear is that our darling grandsons will grow up being told such terrible lies about us and also our daughter. We have all tried so hard to become part of their lives, but, that said, we have never intruded or just "turned up" unexpectedly. We wait patiently for invites, which, of course, never come.

How on earth do we go forward with this impossible situation? How will I ever get peace inside, and sleep properly again? With zero contact, how do we let our grandsons know, that we love them dearly, and have always wanted to be part of their lives? We know we have no 'rights' but I am hurt and completely broken. My husband is more matter-of-fact and is dealing with it better, but I know he is very angry and hurt,, too.

I have to add...whenever the grandchildren have been (rarely) in our company, they are totally relaxed and at ease with us, and we have such fun and giggles, even though it's only ever for an hour or so, 3 or 4 times a year max. When we laugh, my son sits there, stoney faced. I actually asked him in October (the last time we were allowed an accompanied visit) if he ever smiles or laughs around his children? The answer? "Sometimes".... ?

We are totally at a loss to understand all this. Bereft. For me? It is almost like a bereavement. I've lost them.

Thanks for listening.

She's right Funnygran but your GC have a right to know their extended family and your son most definitely has a right to see his own children.

Why oh why do some of these mothers uses their children as weapons to inflict pain and suffering on their children's father's and their paternal GP's.

My son will be in court in three weeks time hoping for an interim contact order to see his two boys who he hasn’t seen properly since November apart from an hour in January. His soon to be ex-wife has ignored all his and my messages about having them to visit - they live in another town. The last time she replied to me she told me in no uncertain terms that grandparents have no rights. The situation isn’t helping his mental health and they have cousins here who miss them. We feel very frustrated by the situation and would love to know if there is a support group in South Yorkshire.

It's good that you've reached a place where you have found peace Notsooldat and that you are no longer beating yourself up over something that you have no control.

"It takes a while to 'get there', but it is a huge load lifted" I totally agree.

I have been estranged from two adult grandchildren for over a year. I did something stupid, and have apologised for it. I can do no more.
Silence ever since.
I’ve now reached the point when I no longer worry. Life is a lot more peaceful, no drama, I have the company of good friends and family, and was very wisely advised to try and stop beating myself up over it, as they clearly don’t care, so the only person affected was me.
It takes a while to ‘get there’, but it is a huge load lifted.

Hello everyone. I live in small flat that only has windows to the front. It means that when I cook, smells are often trapped. Can you give me any tips on what to do please. Many thanks.

Sorry Yennifer I came back on to say no need to answer above question as you already said on the other thread; Carrots

Yogagirl there isn't a magic that happens to make abusive parents good grandparents. Having been alienated from my own family by an abusive parent I understand both sides of the issue x

My estD was brainwashed by her jealous husband, so my question is; will she, my D, ever think for herself and remember how close & loving we all were. Also will she every see the damaged she has done to her daughter, my beloved granddaughter, that has had all her birth family that loved & adored her & that she loved & adored back, ripped away from her & also had her named taken from her, as she was named after me, taken by her stepdad due to his jealousy.