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Estrangement

The "abuse cycle" and other things/themes that EAC identify with.

(480 Posts)
HolyHannah Thu 05-Mar-20 05:39:48

I understand that some EP's are profoundly hurt by their adult child(ren) choice to estrange/go No Contact. How someone reacts to being hurt is very telling in my opinion.

It is one thing for EP's to call estrangement a "living bereavement" but to go so far as to have memorial services and I even read about an EP that held a mock funeral and invited all the rest of the family that was loyal to her to the 'grave-side' ceremony. She wanted to show her young grand-daughter, her daughters child, what happens when you turn your back on 'family' by lowering a box of her Uncles possessions into the ground.

Sadly, abusive parents like that take those actions as a way to make them "feel better"/'take back their control' etc. Do they think of the implications of those actions? What must that poor child have thought? Clearly son/uncle was right to walk away from his FOO and the fact that his sister 'stood' with their mom and exposed her own child to that shows how the cycle of abuse works.

The message that child received was, "If you aren't 'good enough' or behave the 'right way' (their way) then you will be disposed of/'let go' as well." What could be more terrifying to a child? A minor child who has no exit options. Hint -- nothing... The fear of being abandoned/'cast out' was constant in my world because I was taught, "You don't matter and no one cares what happens to you..."

Now if the son finds out about this 'funeral', he'll probably go, "Yeah. Goes to show what she really thinks of Me. She'd rather see me 'dead' then stop abusing Me or even examine the possibility that she might be part of the issue."

I always felt like my 'mom' wanted me to kill myself and when I read EP's talking like that I thought, "Well, the fact that they are willing to do that in effigy says to me, maybe that's really where some abusive parents DO want their goat/lesser child(ren) to be... Dead." When/IF We finally 'wake-up'/come out of the FOG, also known as our breaking point/rock bottom, we refuse to enable the abuse by tolerating/accepting the abuse any further.

I believe this is what abusive EP's mean when they say, "My child needs to own 'their part' in the estrangement." I believe abusers think their victims "part" is that they (the victim) 'allowed'/accepted the abuse for as long as they did. What a beautiful/perfect denial of reality... "My child always 'accepted' how I treated them and even 'praised' Me as a 'mom' with cards and notes and AND AND..."

Of course abused children do 'those things' that abusive parents state. It is a child's attempt to get the love they desperately crave and abusers see that as 'proof' that they were a 'good' parent. Unfortunately, many of us eventually realize they is no love to be had regardless of what we do/have done.

The attitude of "that's just how I am, take it or leave it" is a sign of immaturity. As an adult, it's your responsibility to figure out which of your traits are toxic and are negatively impactful towards other people and the ones you love, and to eventually learn how to fix them. At some point we all have to start making ourselves better individuals. If you truly believe you don't have to change anything about yourself, even at the very least the worst in you and that people will just have to deal with it, then sorry, you are still a child. -- Anonymous

Starblaze Thu 30-Apr-20 11:43:11

I find a lot of people do it, if you are angry, you automatically lose whatever argument or discussion because YOU got angry so YOU are BAD.

Anger is healthy, often justifies and it's something we need to feel because it allows us to have our boundaries of acceptable behaviour towards us with anyone.

For years being angry made me think I must be in the wrong, it was hard to undo and I still sometimes reflex feel bad for feeling it

HolyHannah Thu 30-Apr-20 06:33:22

Starblaze -- On the "Support Thread" You made a comment about anger and I thought my reply better 'fit' on this thread. It is easy to forget at times that anger is/can be a healthy emotion. However when you grow up in a dysfunctional/abusive 'home' there is very little "healthy anger" to be found. So often Us Scapegoats come to see all anger as 'wrong' which is also dysfunctional thinking.

I truly believe, before victims can heal, they do have to get angry first. Being angry at the right 'thing' and in a "healthy way" is they key part... I think this is where abuse victims' either get better or become abusers themselves.

Those that have unhealthy anger, like my 'mom' whose 'normal'/default setting WAS anger, I think it is easiest to want that same 'power' because of the lack of basic respect they were deserved as children and didn't receive... And then repeat the cycle because now they have 'someone' that THEY can have complete control/power over... their off-spring, just like their parents did.

Healthy anger, in my case, is accepting that both sides of my 'genetic family' were abusive and that it's okay to be angry at those who were abused IF they didn't learn from it and repeated the same or did worse. I forgive my Golden Sib for her learned behavior and how she was allowed to get away with treating me as 'lesser'/bullying me because she taught it was 'okay'. What isn't okay/I don't condone or forgive her for is that long into adulthood and before our No Contact she didn't just treat Me as a 'lesser' but anyone else she put in "that category" just like she learned from Ma. She carried on the dysfunction that became the "poisoned pond" to Me after recovery.

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 18:08:06

That's really OK, I was most hurt and confused about what I had done wrong for a minute there

Madgran77 Wed 29-Apr-20 18:02:50

It wasn't a hint, I don't really do hints!

And I apologise cos I have just realised that I had completely misread the poster name ...it WAS you, not Smileless...both begin with "S" but no idea how I did that!! Sorry!

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 17:58:01

I can't see a comment from Smileless about emotional maturity Madgran but OK, I can take a hint.

Madgran77 Wed 29-Apr-20 17:46:34

Oh Madgran I so want to hug you right now. It was me who wrote the comment about emotional maturity, which is why I was asking if your reply was meant for me lol

Oh ok Starblaze to be honest I didn't see your comment on emotional maturity, I only saw Smileless's comment about it.

rosecarmel Wed 29-Apr-20 16:20:45

"in" these threads .. smile

rosecarmel Wed 29-Apr-20 16:20:07

The "lesser" pattern is being carried out these threads-

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 14:24:26

That's brilliant Holyhannah shows me just how far I've come, I've always been an optimistic person but now it's more balanced and I also know how to recognise unhealthy people and situations.

HolyHannah Wed 29-Apr-20 13:49:38

www.wellandgood.com/good-advice/perception-is-reality/

This is a perfect example of why my 'family' is dysfunctional... They perceive me as 'lesser' and therefore treat me as such because of it. This also relates to what I posted on a different thread about "taking a step back" and asking internal questions.

NatashaGransnet (GNHQ) Wed 29-Apr-20 13:10:23

Hi all,

This thread has become a bunfight between users and it'd be great to get the discussion back on track for everyone. We understand that estrangement is sensitive and not everyone agrees, but please refrain from personal attacks. smile

Smileless2012 Wed 29-Apr-20 12:41:09

I'm not engaging with you anymore in these childish exchanges Starblaze, not only do they disrupt the thread they're boring.

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 11:41:07

Saying I say things I don't doesn't require an apology? OK Smileless.

Smileless2012 Wed 29-Apr-20 11:32:28

Yes I do know how to apologise if and when an apology is required. In this case it isn't.

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 11:31:55

Also follow your own rules, if you don't like this post, don't read it smile

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 11:31:11

Or you could just apologise. Do you k ow how to do that? It's not hard.

Smileless2012 Wed 29-Apr-20 11:27:37

For goodness sake Starblaze give it a rest. I've given my opinion on my interpretation and you've done the same. No one is disputing the reality of your feelings on any given subject.

If you don't like my posts then don't read them.

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 11:21:56

My feelings on any given subject are real. If you want to infer that I am making them up for attention, just say so. Or go tell my mum that, you will be instant best friends Smileless

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 10:20:51

Why do you speak for others constantly? Personally I don't like it and you still owe me an apology for doing it to me.

Smileless2012 Wed 29-Apr-20 10:16:33

Like I said, the tyranny of sensitivity springs to mind.

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 10:14:54

I have read it. I'm amazed at your capacity to defend it Smileless it was a horrible thing to say on any thread and Holyhannah hasn't copied the worst of it.

I am shocked and upset at the reply to it too that was deleted.

I didn't like the original comment or the reply.

You will of course defend any estranged parent saying nasty things to estranged children whether it was made within the context of just that post or not.

Smileless2012 Wed 29-Apr-20 10:02:00

That's the problem with not only taking a section of someone's post out of context, but doing so from a post that's on another thread.

It's on the 'fear of never seeing her again' thread, the one you've just posted on actually, last but one page I think so why don't you look at it there and then you can ask the poster yourself for clarification.

Starblaze Wed 29-Apr-20 09:47:42

The only person who can clarify what that comment meant is the person who wrote it Smileless unless that was you?

Smileless2012 Wed 29-Apr-20 09:21:32

As I said last night HolyHannh, the section of a post you have highlighted is talking about the content of some of the posts on that particular thread. It is in fact the final paragraph of the post.

You constantly direct comments to EP's which are far worse IMO with your incessant links to the "things/themes that EAC identify with. The tyranny of sensitivity springs to mind.

rosecarmel Wed 29-Apr-20 07:17:46

"Starblaze -- I firmly believe that some EP's very much want to see other parents make the same mistakes because it validates their version of events and keeps them from examining their own part in the estrangement."

That's a very common pattern- Often fuel by insecurity, greed, ignorance, addiction, defensiveness and fear- From dysfunctional families, co-dependent friendships, small business, corporations, religious institutions, legislation and government-

It sucks-