What EP's need to hear from a fellow Estranged Parent.

The thread is about estrangement.

Thanks Smileless, I havent mentioned anything to him yet. In a way I'm almost enjoying his silence because he cant put me down or verbally abuse if he isnt talking to me....

But I probably will mention it when it feels right....

Looking into mediation is a good idea Lavazza1, it may be something your son would consider as it can feel less intimidating.

To explain the duck/goose analogy. Person A -- A duck (and dysfunctional thinker) Person B -- A goose (also a dysfunctional thinker but different 'issue') and Me.

Person A -- "I think/believe I'm a goose because being a duck (displaying dysfunctional behaviors) is 'bad'. Rather then see/accept that I act like a duck can we just agree I'm a goose?"

Me -- "No because in order to get healthy you need to be a happy quacking duck and even if you find other ducks, that believe like you that they too are geese, doesn't make you or your 'flock' into geese. Yelling that you are 'healthy and recovered' while being a quacking duck that wants to be called a goose doesn't work on me."

Person B -- "I am duck because I'm quacking like one and I say I am a duck."

Me -- "Nope. You're still a goose even if you are quacking and calling yourself a duck. You can't gas-light me into seeing you as a duck."

"I think it's the blinkered amateur psychologists that some of us have an issue with Yennifer, in particular the ones who always lay the 'blame' at the door of the EP."

The article is about parental accountability -

Yes Yennifer, we are!
Thanks Smileless for saying issues can take years to present themself.

It does indeed seem that a lot of abused women return to their abuser. I saw it happen with some of the women I met through the DV charity. These men can be very controlling and also charismatic. They know the weak spots...

I got an injunction, learned how to know the difference between a good man and an abusive one thanks to the DV charity. Then I met my current DH and have been with him for 20 years now. He has brought up the kids and willingly given up much to help me bring them up.

Ive had psychotherapy for the abuse I suffered, thanks. I was only talking about it to explain the background.

Im just at a loss right now to know what to say to DS. If I accept his aggression, Im living in an abusive relationship again. In the past he has lashed out at his brother who I have no previously mention as well as my DH. Understandably, neither of them want to confront him. It just upsets me that he's taking after his Dad and he does remind me of him in some of his behaviours.

More than anything I want him to accept help. But past experience has shown he is likely to get angry if I suggest counselling. I am considering looking into mediation, if he will accept that.

Bearing in mind that adolescent mental health were involved I don't see what else you could have done Lavazzal. Issues stemming from childhood experiences can take years to present themselves so it's understandable that for a time you thought things were OK, especially as the children received play therapy after you'd left your abusive relationship.

Going through a long period of low self esteem and the belief that the bad treatment you received was deserved is a common theme that we see often see expressed by abused AC here on GN.

Starting again with your children, even with the help and support of a domestic violence charity took courage. There are sadly many cases of women who were in your position, and despite the help they are given, return to their abuser, despite in some cases knowing they could lose their children as a result.

I understand that it "seems so unfair" for your children to blame you and hold you responsible while seemingly not seeing the part that their abusive father played in this very sad situation, together with lies he's told them about their mother.

I don't know if you've ever had counselling for yourself, for the abuse you endured as a child and then as an adult from your partner. If you have in the past, it may be something you could consider doing again.

Doing so may help you get everything in perspective and help you find a way forward for you and your children.

I would recommend counselling to anyone usually but we are in a strange old scenario at the moment aren't we? x

Ahhh I am still reading some of these replies. Thanks to everyone who has responded.

No. I havent told AC how I feel. As I already said, last year my eldest AC estranged and I am trying to avoid the same thing. So, I came here to discuss it calmly so I can respond to AC whenI have worked out how.

Well yes I did have a dysfunctional upbringing and got married very young to an abusive man when I didn't know any better. It was like going from the frying pan into the fire and I did stay with him for many years because my self esteem was very low and I thought I deserved the bad treatment and that I couldn't cope on my own.

I did have help eventually to leave, from my Ds's teacher who found out what was happening. The teacher persuaded me to leave and would have involved Social services if I didn't. We receieved help and support from a domestic violence charity and started again in a new area.

I thought I was doing the right thing but I really can't escape from the repercussions. If I had stayed with abusive ex we would probably have lost the kids... I put them first and have done my best ( but it hasnt been good enough)

While I have done my best, the abusive ex has danced in and out of their lives inconsistently and told lies about me. They seem not to give him trouble, but take all their blame out on me. It all seems so unfair and I am not going to say anything until I get this all in perspective and have a clear way forwards. I don't want to make anything worse...

Yes I was a victim too, so I havent ever felt like I would invalidate them. After we left the abusive relationship they had play therapy and I thought things were ok.

I didnt expect them to make me happy, but I thought I could make them happy and feel disappointed its not the case. Its useful to discuss this.

You are right, all the MH problems and eating problems do seem to point to it- but adolescent mental health were involved and it didnt help, so I dont know what I could have done?

I think it's the blinkered amateur psychologists that some of us have an issue with Yennifer, in particular the ones who always lay the 'blame' at the door of the EP.

If estrangement isn't about the psychology of a situation, what's it about? Families don't break down for no reason at all, theres always a reason x

I know and I didn't think you had Bridie. Unfortunately when it comes to estrangement there are a lot of sweeping statements and judgements made especially about EP's from non EP's and EAC who were abused in childhood.

I have the unfortunate experience of having been abused in childhood and estranged by one of our sons. I understand that one size doesn't fit all in either case.

Spelling!!!!!aargh

Didn't mean to incude you....all this amateur pyscology is very annoying on what is a very individual and hurtful subject.

Bridie I think some would like to think we are, but they couldn't be more wrong.

Are you all bonkers?!!!

You're right HH recovery does teach you "to see the waterfowl for what it is and not what it pretends to be/is pretending to be".

I know all about recovery, having recovered from abuse in my own childhood. I also know about being an EP, something that with all due respect, you know nothing about.

We all know that love is unconditional in a healthy family, however that only seems to be stated when an assumption or accusation is being made about EP's.

What about the EAC who was raised in a healthy family? Where is their unconditional love when they estrange themselves and often take away their children too?

"and I have no wish to jeopardise their relationship with their mum. I can be found if my grandchildren wish to find me". Nothing "grandiose" about that all and no evidence that no wonder the EC in this case "fled to a better life".

That demonstrates the desire of a GP not to damage the relationship their AC has with their child(ren), even though the mother may well have damaged, and at least prevented her child(ren's) relationhip with their GM.

“Kill me,” said the poor bird; and he bent his head down to the surface of the water, and awaited death.

But what did he see in the clear stream below? His own image; no longer a dark, gray bird, ugly and disagreeable to look at, but a graceful and beautiful swan. To be born in a duck’s nest, in a farmyard, is of no consequence to a bird, if it is hatched from a swan’s egg. He now felt glad at having suffered sorrow and trouble, because it enabled him to enjoy so much better all the pleasure and happiness around him; for the great swans swam round the new-comer, and stroked his neck with their beaks, as a welcome.
Into the garden presently came some little children, and threw bread and cake into the water.

“See,” cried the youngest, “there is a new one;” and the rest were delighted, and ran to their father and mother, dancing and clapping their hands, and shouting joyously, “There is another swan come; a new one has arrived.”

Then they threw more bread and cake into the water, and said, “The new one is the most beautiful of all; he is so young and pretty.” And the old swans bowed their heads before him.

Then he felt quite ashamed, and hid his head under his wing; for he did not know what to do, he was so happy, and yet not at all proud. He had been persecuted and despised for his ugliness, and now he heard them say he was the most beautiful of all the birds. Even the elder-tree bent down its bows into the water before him, and the sun shone warm and bright. Then he rustled his feathers, curved his slender neck, and cried joyfully, from the depths of his heart, “I never dreamed of such happiness as this, while I was an ugly duckling.”

and I have no wish to jeopardise their relationship with their mum. I can be found if my grandchildren wish to find me.

Such grandiose projection onto the GC! No wonder the EC fled to a better life. Utter denial of course...

No they didn't, and I'm not attacking you, just debating. But I really do not want to be drawn into your mind games so bye.

It will only make you angry, I shall not partake.

Bridie22

Love is unconditional in a healthy family.

If you stop making nasty attacks on me you would see how you are acting the way you were treated in childhood, somebody did it to you. Stop the cycle.

You don't sound very healthy to me...from the messenger