Hope For Estranged Grandparents

Smileless -- "And don't pretend HolyHannah that P's rights are mostly about what's best for their children when that isn't always the case." -- Of course it isn't.

But the grand-parents still are not the "official deciders" of what is best for someone else's children, their grand-children included.

No one has yet to address the core issue here. If the parents have decided that a relationship with one or both sets GP's who has the right/authority to tell the parents they are "wrong"?

When both sides claim the other is the issue, it should then be up to the parents to decide the best interests of their minor children.

It doesn't matter, unless there is actual abuse going on in our family unit whether our 'parents' "agree" with our choices or not. We get to decide if raising our children "their religion" is best for them. It wasn't good for Us so NO, we aren't going to raise our children the same way.

They call that "abuse". We call it, "Making our own adult decisions just like you did."

Because one side made it clear that regardless of how we choose to raise our children they were going to teach them "a proper religion" and those parents were told they would never meet said children then... But We are abusing them and our children by denying contact according to THEM.

But all circumstances are different.

But emotional abuse, like sexual abuse is is very hard to prove in court and abusive people will use that to gain access to children. Abusers are very good at looking innocent and wonderful and that is how they get away with abusing their zchildren for as long as they did and that is how they will get over the final hurdle in court. Because all circumstances are different.

The core issue then, parents telling their adult children how to live their lives and the lives of their children.?

We’re talking at cross purposes then. Because this thread is about a real, reasoned, response to loving grandparents wishes to continue with a loving relationship with their grandchildren. Not in anyway controlling or abusive on their part. Just everyday people who love their offsprings children.

MissAdventure -- In what way are they all different?

As far as I can see, most of the situations are very similar.

Grand-parents believe they know what is best for their grand-children and should get to decide what the parents should do. Parents that do not share that view often go No Contact.

The grand-parents then often claim that parents wanting to raise their children their way by going No Contact is abuse to their parents and children.

Our parents wanted to control Us instead of raising Us. We want to raise our children not control them. I certainly don't want my 'parents' using courts to control me to force their 'love' on innocent children. My 'mom's "love" made me suicidal.

There will always be manipulative, cruel people, I agree, and I have heard tales of many, where nobody would have ever dreamed what was going on.
I honestly don't know what the answer is, and how it could ever be failsafe, but that shouldn't stop children from having non abusive relatives in their lives.

Emotional abuse was hard to identify. But bullies will always make mistakes.

Me too have proved that.

Exactly.Miss A.

GranniesUnite I previously suggested some methods that could be used by the courts to check the suitability of grandparent to have access to children. Perhaps the same rigorous process that adoptive parents and Foster parents go through. Psychological assessments would be a good thing too. In any case where parents are saying the grandparents aren't suitable.

What do you think would be appropriate?

Same question to you MissA

Sounds reasonable enough to me.
I think if more of those kinds of assessments were done, we would have a hell of a lot less children killed.

Very true

It would turn the whole thing into a bit of a circus though, I suppose.

I think it would certainly put off parents like mine from ever risking going to court. She wouldn't come to counselling with me, I expect she knew that someone educated/experienced in abuse can spot a abuser very quickly.

It doesn't fix all the other ways court cases can have a negative impact or make going into the process without knowing what the impact would be any better but it would be a start.

I suppose someone very manipulative could use assessments to their own advantage, put on an act, put the boot in "accidentally"..

Yes I’d agree to that. Of course that would be acceptable.

Dogs trust interviews potential owners so yes that makes sense.

In fact to be honest I think that in the case of divorce the children of the marriage should be monitored and counselled till teenage years. One way of keeping abusive adults in line.

When our children go back to school, university after this lockdown counselling will be available to them

I would also welcome that for any newcomer in children's lives. (New boyfriends, friends etc.)

It's all a bit "big brother" though.

The one really big point I want to debate here is that suing the parents for visitation does cause harm to the children. The ways in which it does:
- Financial Harm - Parents may not be able to afford after school activities
- Stressed out parents - It's hard to be 100% when you are stressed out of your mind.

If you choose to take the route, you will cause some sort of stress or hardship on your grandchildren.

Here is just one story of thousands on just one website of grandparent rights from the other perspective: www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/5p5ebl/im_being_sued_for_grandparents_rights_from_my/

It also highlights another important fact, the person in court most likely to win is the one with the most money. If one side has a lawyer and the other side doesn't, you are much less likely to win. Grandparents using decades of saved money over new adults to force their wills on them is not okay.

This is a terrible time for a lot of children and I've been trying to distract myself from that and now I realise I'm just talking about a different facet of the issues children face.

Might be time to log out again for a bit.

Yes Miss A that is a real possibility.
Abusers are cunning. But they do make mistakes.

I read somewhere recently, or an advert I saw, that if you think a child is in danger of physical abuse you should intervene.

I agree totally with that. Any kind of abuse . Difficult I know. But to stand by and watch a child being abused used especially by someone who should protect them, is tantamount to incitement. In my book.

Iron flower.

Responsible parents would never let a child know the stressful details of a potential court action.
Responsible parents will always protects their children from harm. No matter what.

Granniesunite, you're reaction to a parent stressed, scared and financially ruined and facing the prospect of having to hand over their children unsupervised to someone who physically, emotionally and sexually abused them is that they aren't responsible if they can't pretend everything is fine? :O

You also didn't talk about the financial strain. You also referred to court action as harm.

No. Abusers are abusers ironflower.

Read my other posts they do make mistakes .

Harm I refer to is the stress of court action by the adults in their lives. No responsible parent would let a child be upset by adult worries.

Financial worries yes very difficult. Not sure what country your are in but I know from experience in my country that help would be given.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.

Granniesunte -- Really? So for those of us who have things like C-PTSD are supposed to make like everything is perfect while we are being accosted yet again, by our abusers?

If we are unable to do that then we are failing as parents?

What about the harm and stress to Us as parents? Healthy and happy parents can raise strong and healthy children. Creating chaos for the parents is harming the children. Any energy I have to use to protect myself from outside influences/stressors is less energy I have to focus on loving my children.

That hurts the children. So anyone who says, "Court cases could be beneficial in some cases." is ignoring all the 'not beneficial' side effects that can result.

"No responsible parent would let a child be upset by adult worries." -- Children will be upset about things that upset them and their parents. Even if the children 'don't know' what mom and dad are "upset about" the strain would be obvious to them.

Sorry Holy Hannah your situation sounds sad and I’m sorry that you have experienced that in Your life.

I hope if you are still experiencing these difficulties with your family that you have the help you need to get by.

Court could be just the place for resolution.