Hope For Estranged Grandparents

Not wishing to appear pedantic here, but that post from Nonnie makes no mention of GP's. She has not said there, that a custodial sentence could be the result of non compliance of an order with a GP.; GP's aren't mentioned at all

That post from Nonnie was talking about an occasion she knows of where the police enforced a contact order in favour of the grandparent (which doesn’t happen either, by the way), and then goes on to say if the parent continues to disregard the order, they can be sent to prison.

I think we can safely assume she was talking about grandparents.

In extreme cases, parents will even be imprisoned for breaking court orders actually Motherofdragons Nonnie is correct.

A parent who fails to comply with contact order for the other parent of their child can be punished with community service, a fine or a short custodial sentence.

Even though the courts are never ever going to rule that because the case is about what's best for the children, not estranged parents putting their own children in prison for not wanting a relationship with them

Because you won't accept it as true!
Nothing gleeful AT ALL in it.
Why would there be?

In extreme cases, parents will even be imprisoned for breaking court orders actually Motherofdragons Nonnie is correct

A parent who fails to comply with contact order for the other parent of their child can be punished with community service, a fine or a short custodial sentence

Firstly, Nonnie isn’t talking about other parents. She is specifically talking about grandparents. Why would she be talking about a parent going to prison for not following the court order in relation to the other parent on a grandparent’s rights thread?

Secondly, note the word can in your post. In theory, yes. In practice, no. Again, please show me the relevant case law to support your claim.

I suggest you take it up with gransnet if you think they're scaremongering

I don’t think Gransnet are scaremongering in the slightest. You are. Nonnie is.

Because you won't accept it as true!

It’s not true, because it has never happened. If you want to state it as true, please post the relevant case law to support your claim. Otherwise, stop scaremongering.

Sometimes so much gaslighting goes on around here it's unreal. Doesn't work on estranged children, been there, experienced that, got the therapy.

Sorry Motherofdrangons I think you will find that Nonnie said of the case that she mentioned that a a 101 call was made to the police, who went to the house and were able to reason with the parents. I'm sure she didn't say the police enforced the order.

I know this was discussed at length yesterday and as far as I can remember Nonnie did come back to clarify. Also I think it was Bibbity who provided a post, taken from the internet that stated police will not generally enforce an order and I seem to remember posting in response to that, that it may not be a general police response, but that's not to say it's a given and would never happen.

Sorry Motherofdrangons I think you will find that Nonnie said of the case that she mentioned that a a 101 call was made to the police, who went to the house and were able to reason with the parents. I'm sure she didn't say the police enforced the order

Whatever the outcome of that situation was, she still said:

Smile if a parent subverts the court order then the police can be called to enforce it

The police can’t be called to enforce it! You need to apply to the court for their permission to have it enforced by the police. I have seen this done for the other parent, but have never known such permission to be granted by the court for a grandparent. Again, case law would be incredibly helpful here.

I must say, I am really looking forward to seeing all the case law which must be available to support all the outrageous claims made on here over the past couple of days.

Can confirm MoD having read the relevant links.

Chewbacca also jumped on that band wagon, can't remember if anyone else did.

Chewbacca didn't jump on any bandwagon Starblaze; what she actually did was go and source correct information, from a verifiable source, copied that information here and posted where that information could be checked on. Not so much bandwagon jumping as proving facts. For someone soooo sensitive as to how you're addressed and referred to, you don't afford the same courtesy to those who don't agree with you.

first note the word can in your post. In theory yes, in practice no. The law isn't based on theory Motherofdragaons it is based on what can or cannot be done within the law.

Precedents can be set when a judge ruling on particular case makes an unexpected, not seen before ruling. However, that ruling has to be based on the law, it's not changing it per se but adding another dimension.

I'm not trained in law so am unable to provide relevant case law to support what I've posted. Perhaps you could find relevant case law to support your view that I am wrong.

It would be a shame if every contribution from a non EAC on the subject of estrangement were regarded as 'gaslighting' simply because their opinions differ from EAC.

Which relevant links are those Starblaze, I seem to have missed them so could the be provided again please?

It doesn't happen Chewbacca

If I say your name 3 times in a mirror do you appear behind me? lol

Also Chewbacca on the subject of my emotional and sexual abuse I'm "sensitive".

Did you really just say that?

Starblaze Wed 24-Jun-20 13:58:24 there are specific laws about children's rights which cover this. No one has suggested anything other than that. Perhaps you are trying to mislead?

Starblaze Wed 24-Jun-20 14:09:27 Either substantiate that or retract. You should not accuse people without substantiation. I have 'argued' no such thing. I simply told you what the court orders say. Any such sentence would only be if the parents had not obeyed the order and therefore they would be the ones harming the children.

MissAdventure Wed 24-Jun-20 15:43:41 very well put

Motherofdragons Wed 24-Jun-20 15:46:21 I stand by everything I wrote and I did verify. I am still waiting for those who claim what I said is untrue to prove it and show me what the standard paragraphs on CAOs are. If you can't do that then you should admit you are mistaken. Case law would be no hope at all as it just tells you the case and the outcome. Family Courts do not allow the orders to be made public. Just another little bit of legal understanding you might find helpful.

Motherofdragons Wed 24-Jun-20 15:59:26 please supply case law to verify that claim. Thanks

Starblaze Wed 24-Jun-20 16:03:23 or what sort of parent would not comply with a court order?

Starblaze Wed 24-Jun-20 16:06:42 Please give us links to where you saw that? Thanks

I need to go jump in the pool.

BTW Nonnie address my comments as a whole or not at all because I am tired of you glossing over the actual main points of the comments I make. It means we cannot have any kind of actual meaningful discussion and just becomes the worlds longest, most boring tennis match.

Laters splash

Motherofdragons Wed 24-Jun-20 16:07:37 you are accusing my of lying, please retract. How could you possibly know if you were not there. It happened and I could give you the incident number but that would not be fair to the order breaker.

You can assume what you like but you know what they say assuming does? I makes an * out of you!

Motherofdragons Wed 24-Jun-20 16:11:01 point of order, I was talking about not complying with court orders. It really is the same whatever the order is for, break it and there are penalties. I gave you the standard text.

Stating the facts is not scaremongering. Simple.

Motherofdragons Wed 24-Jun-20 16:24:02 which claims would show in case law? As already said, you can read what was applied for and what was granted but nothing more. Anyone who knows about the Family Courts will know how private they are.

Motherofdragons Wed 24-Jun-20 16:23:31 oh dear. The police can be called by anyone for any reason. On the occasions when it was necessary to call the police to prevent things from happening (not going to go into confidential info) the police came and were incredibly supportive. Anyone who has been in such a difficult situation would understand.

Good idea Starblaze cool off for a bit.

A general point. I have posted facts and I have several times more or less been told I am not telling the truth. I could simply report such posts but I choose to leave them so everyone can see that some people simply are not prepared to accept any views but there own. To say something is not true but not prove it is rather infantile. To keep demanding proof when providing none oneself is not a discussion.

If anyone can find a sample CAO with the penalty section I hope they have the courage to show it and admit the truth. If not perhaps they should desist.

first note the word can in your post. In theory yes, in practice no. The law isn't based on theory Motherofdragaons it is based on what can or cannot be done within the law

Yes, but if something hasn’t been done before then it is very unlikely to happen. So the law relating to it exists in theory, not practice. Otherwise, it would set a precedent (moving onto your next point):

Precedents can be set when a judge ruling on particular case makes an unexpected, not seen before ruling. However, that ruling has to be based on the law, it's not changing it per se but adding another dimension

Yes. But so far, no precedent has been set for sending parents to prison for not complying with contact orders in favour of the grandparent.

I'm not trained in law so am unable to provide relevant case law to support what I've posted. Perhaps you could find relevant case law to support your view that I am wrong

I’m sure you’ll understand that I have neither the time nor inclination to sift through case law to help prove anyone else’s assertions on this thread. Especially when I don’t agree with them!

But for anyone who wants pointed in the right direction, here’s a clue: it doesn’t exist. You’ll perhaps find a couple of cases when it comes to parents no doubt, but not grandparents.

WHAT HAPPENS IF I DON’T FOLLOW A COURT ORDER OR AGREEMENT?
Failure to obey a Court Order is contempt of court. Contempt of Court is punishable by fine or imprisonment. More often than not, in the context of Family proceedings, parties purge their contempt by complying with the Court Order or they apply to vary the court order.

Becket Chambers › Articles › What happens when a court order in private family law proceedings is breached?
What happens when a court order in private family law proceedings is breached?
Added in Children - Private Law (CAP) by Nicole Jennings

Parties named in a court order must follow the order. A party found to be in breach of an order may be fined, imprisoned, ordered to undertake unpaid work or have their assets seized. The penalty is at the discretion of the court.