Religion and Estrangement/No Contact.

all we take with us is our mind

I have no shred of doubt about where the human mind resides - it is in that mass of grey porridge in our skulls - in our brain. I am certain of this as I worked for many years with people who had suffered a brain injury and so many things about them changed: their personalities, their outlook, their moral compass, their ability to control their temper, their emotions etc. etc.

Therefore you do not take your mind anywhere when you die - it decays in the ground or is cremated along with the rest of your body, of which your brain/mind is just one part.

I know how hard it is to regard our minds as coming to a close; but the same happens with all animals of every kind. Whatever mind they might have is gone with the rest of their bodies when they die. We are simply animals higher up the food chain.

So - what ever beliefs we might have about an afterlife, it most certainly does not include our mind.

I am an agnostic - a Don't Know - and I believe we are all in that same boat. Some have "faith|" in one religion or another, but faith and knowledge are two different things.

I do have a creed by which I try to live and that is kindness - sometimes I am good at it, and sometimes I fail. It is the heart of all religions (ignore the Old Testament - it has been superseded!) and it seems to me that if we lock onto that heart and ignore the man-made accretions and aberrations that adhere to so many religions we cannot go far wrong.

Religion as we know it is divisive. Best avoided I feel.

Matt 10:35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

When I joined my religion, my family turned against me.

A baby in the womb thinks that this is life and will remain so. Imagine the shock, awe, enchantment to discover the world after birth.
That is what I believe happens to us when we die, we throw off this world and enter into a spiritual realm - all we take with us is our mind. But in my belief the spiritual world is the real world and it is all around us, we just need to be open to it when we die and there we will be for eternity. The role of religion is this: obviously in this spiritual world we will have no bodies, so physical and materialistic pursuits will not exist. ie no sex, food, tv. etc. They have their role, but If that is what makes your life and fills your mind, you will be in for a lonely ‘non’existence when you die. If your mind is opened up to love and ‘goodness’ however, not only will your life enhance this world, you will continue to have a fulfilling useful life in the next - because we can continue to contribute to the spiritual world in a meaningful way. And it will not be just Christians who are there.
Think this sounds far out? Read this:
www.worldsciencefestival.com/videos/a-thin-sheet-of-reality-the-universe-as-a-hologram/

No need to apologise Toadinthehole I think I misconstrued your post so I apologise.

You're absolutely right; Christianity and religion are not the same thing.

Smileless. As I’ve understood from all your posts I’ve seen... you have a strong faith in Jesus, so I would expect you to have found peace. You are a Christian. I’m saying Christianity and religion are not the same thing. One follows Jesus and the other any number of entities. This includes many of our churches, which have been corrupted by men. My apologies if I have this wrong.

Toadinthehole you posted yesterday "If you find peace in religion it will be short lived and lead no where".

My personal experience is the exact opposite. The peace we have found has been ongoing and led us to a place of peace we'd never have thought possible due to our estrangement.

HolyHannah, yes- Everything appears to be interconnected and the process of it is in constant flux of what's connected to what, each thing dependent upon another thing- And I think the pandemic has presented examples of the above many times over-

I don't know where consciousness goes when living things expire- I do know that people meditate on thoughts of death to bring their minds back to this moment to practice gratitude for having been given life-

rosecarmel -- When I use the term "bound to this one universe" I mean it on a cosmic scale... The Universe and everything in it is tied/bound to every other 'thing' as well... The Universe is infinitely large and expanding...

Similar to the "Butterfly Effect" only on a grander and multi-dimensional existence.

Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Humans have an 'energy'/spirit/essence (whatever you want to call 'it') so when We die, that energy goes "somewhere" -- back to the Universe perhaps? I don't know... Does anyone?

HolyHannah, I appreciate the Jedi faith-

I believe in change, it isn't a religion, but couldn't adopt being bound to all that could be seen now, as in a universe that is statically singular-

rosecarmel -- To be Jedi is to understand that We are all bound to this one universe. As in ALL things/people. It's very peaceful.

Toadinthehole

Rosecarmel
In that regard, is practicing Christianity that hard? A born again Christian is a new creation. It is something you are, not something you have to ‘practise’.

That it's so incredibly difficult to do alone? you are born again into the presence of God so you are never alone.

Perhaps even hypocritical? Christian churches often are hypocritical as I said twice before ... corrupt... but the individual Christian who focuses on Jesus only... isn’t.

Are you two ladies in USA by any chance, or somewhere else in the world? Just looking at the times of your postings.

Born Again Christians practice Christianity-

Being born into the presence of God is not without conflict, such as experiencing isolation, loneliness and a sense of being alone, impatience to return to church, be with their congregation, sing in the choir, attend service- They're human-

Why isn't the individual who focuses on Jesus not hypocritical ? Does such an individual not affiliate with any particular congregation?

Hannah. I think I’ve said all I can, anything else would just be repetition. I wish you all the best.

Alexa -- The way I practice Jedi is to always be objective. That doesn't mean I'm likely to change my mind/philosophy but I always listen.

To not be objective is to make a judgement(s) on something/someone based on a perception of that and immediately discounting the message based on it.

Like, "Hannah identifies as Jedi so therefore she is a 'loon' and anything she says is 'nothing'..."

That is a mentality I am familiar with... Although when I was a child my 'mom' would just insert something else in place of 'Jedi'. I was "stupid" or "immature" or whatever other excuse to dismiss my reality...

Holy Hannah, my intention in asking that question was to discover if you could take an objective point of view, which interests me a little more than anecdotes.

Your experiences among religious people could be interesting.

Toadinthehole -- "If you find peace in religion, it will be short lived and lead no where." -- I don't even know what you mean by that. Is your religion so fraught with conflict that there is no peace in it? Or are you implying that those of other faiths are doomed to not have peace in their life?

"Once you hear the Gospel, you’re then obliged to make the choice." -- Says who?

And I'm not American -- not that I see any relevance to the conversation.

Alexa -- I find people who ask questions like that are usually projecting...

pf, hope you don’t mind me abbreviating you’re name! Jesus says we have to be born again, ( so starting again with Him as your leader), to be saved. No one is born a Christian.
Lots of different views over what happens to non Christians, Christians themselves often can’t agree, but they do agree that the Bible is clear they won’t be with God.
If you’re asking what happens if you’ve never had the chance to hear about Jesus, and therefore, don’t know what to do, we do know we’re all judged after death, Christians as well, by a loving God. There is only one path to salvation, and that is through Jesus. Once you hear the Gospel, you’re then obliged to make the choice.

Rosecarmel
In that regard, is practicing Christianity that hard? A born again Christian is a new creation. It is something you are, not something you have to ‘practise’.

That it's so incredibly difficult to do alone? you are born again into the presence of God so you are never alone.

Perhaps even hypocritical? Christian churches often are hypocritical as I said twice before ... corrupt... but the individual Christian who focuses on Jesus only... isn’t.

Are you two ladies in USA by any chance, or somewhere else in the world? Just looking at the times of your postings.

Holy Hannah, I have no opinion about you apart from what you write on Gransnet.
Do you know what it means to try to be objective?

Toad - but what if someone doesn't believe, or is raised as a Jew, Buddhist or Muslim? Aren't these people to be 'saved' because of an accident of birth, or is there more than one path to salvation?

There is no such thing as a ‘ good Christian’, we are all sinners. This is what Jesus paid for on the cross. All He asks of us...is to believe in Him, and we WILL be saved. We have the choice. No one is going to force us to do anything we don’t want. If you find peace in religion, it will be short lived and lead no where.

rose - what a haunting and beautiful poem, thank you for sharing it.

Perhaps when I meet someone who actually seems to be a 'good' Christian in all regards, I'll gain faith in the religion.

rosecarmel "What are the odds?"

If We are using American horse racing as the analogy? About as good as someone beating the 1973 Belmont Stakes/track record...

Google will be friendly to those who don't understand my meaning...

Much like asking God for forgiveness for your sins and not actually engaging the person you have "wronged"...

Yes-

Perhaps when I meet someone who actually seems to be a 'good' Christian in all regards, I'll gain faith in the religion.

What are the odds?

I'm currently reading Seabiscuit: An American Legend by Laura Hillenbrand- The odds were next to impossible- And yet, the crossing of paths of tragedy and failure were met with compassion, persistence and success-

rosecarmel -- Much like asking God for forgiveness for your sins and not actually engaging the person you have "wronged"... And then saying, "Well God forgives my mistakes and you'll be a 'bad' Christian if you don't forgive Me too."

Nice "spiritual bypass" indeed... The person in need of forgiveness/abuser gets absolved by God/a 'higher power' and then there is no need to actually apologize to the victim or change/modify the behavior.

And why would the abuser do those things? They can just go back to church the next week and repeat the cycle. Meanwhile their victim sees the hypocrisy and resents all parties. And yes, to those that are about to chant, "But that's not how 'real' Christianity works..."

Perhaps when I meet someone who actually seems to be a 'good' Christian in all regards, I'll gain faith in the religion.

HolyHannah, I think there's loopholes in place in most practices of faith that inhibit total disclosure and replace it with "magical" practices that support side-stepping unfinished business-

It's called spiritual bypassing-