Religion and Estrangement/No Contact.

lucky, with reference to your comment about respect, does one respect the beliefs of others that one disagrees with or does one respect other people and their right to believe whatever they like? I think there's a massive difference between respecting a person and respecting a belief. There are lots of beliefs for which I have no respect at all but on principle I feel it's important to respect people of whatever creed or political outlook, whatever I may think of their beliefs.

The problem not with religion. It is, however, with the people who practice it.

Thank you Chewbacca for giving Me Jedi 'tips'. Like I do not know My own faith or what it means to be Jedi.

Smileless -- Yoda is a fictional character and given the image you posted I have a theory on how it was meant... But... If I told the truth you'd run to 'the principal' and say, "Look how MEAN she is being to MEEE!!!!"

Do you know how many comments I have reported to GNHQ? ZERO. Why? I can stand by my words and I believe what other people say should stand as a testament (minus racily insensitive/homophobic/gender based slurs etc.) to how they think...

I also stand by any PM's I have sent to people. I speak the truth "in private" the same as I post. However, for those few who have received PM's from Me? They know a few things... If I say 'it', You are free to take what I say and use 'it' as You want. If they quote me from a PM and post 'it' publicly I'll own it. However, the usual reason I send PM's to people is because I WANT to say something but my language in those comments won't meet GN standards.

rosecarmel -- "All faiths and schools of thought were not created on a foundation of loving kindness- Each disguises inexcusable behavior with loving kindness- Completely defeating the purpose of each teaching-" -- That describes how I felt about religion as a child. These people called themselves 'Christians' but their behavior certainly didn't match the teachings -- total hypocrisy.

"The first place a child learns of their estrangement from love is from their family- The second place they learn it is at church -- or within their spiritual circles-" I never felt 'love' anywhere and then the 'teachings' were, if you're 'bad' (which everyone declared I was) you get to go to Hell!

Every day was "hell" and I got to "look forward" to more? It's not really a wonder I had no desire to live...

I agree totally with your post PF. It's like saying guns kill when of course it's the people who fire the guns that do the killing.

Our faith has been a great comfort. Helped us through the worse of times, that's for sure.

Smileless, I actually envy those who have a strong faith, it must be a great comfort.

There is no doubt that Jesus was a great leader, teacher, and a shining example of goodness. I think it is humans who corrupt the message and that men often interpret religion in such a way as to control women and their bodies, which is what puts me off organised religion, especially extremist groups.

In the same way, religion can also be used to try to control children, which I think is the point that the original poster was making. I am sure that this can have a fundamental (no pun intended) effect on the parent/child relationship and eventually drive the adult child away, as they seek to free their minds from all of the indoctrination and find themselves.

Madgran No worries

Starblaze Ok

*Madgran, I'm talking about the words origin which is dis + own

Another definition is:

Refusing to acknowledge as belonging to you

Just had to point out that the 'old testament' is not a Christian Text. Christianity started with Jesus.

I was brought up as a regular church going presbyterian, even a Sunday School Teacher, but as I grew older and had children of my own I came to realise that it was full of inconsistencies, that as many really awful things happened to lovely Christian people and their innocent Children (no matter how hard we prayed for them) as happened to apparently Godless 'bad' people. Consequently, I stopped attending Church and instead volunteered for various charities and voluntary groups, which had a demonstrable positive impact on people's lives.

I do follow many Christian principals, eg try to be a good Samaritan, do unto others (often better!) than to myself, etc. but find the whole idea of spending your life "getting right with God" to be a waste of time and goodwill which could be more profitably spent giving practical support and comfort to others.

Thinking about faith as opposed to religion specifically in relation to estrangement/no contact, I honestly don't know how we'd have coped with out our faith to sustain us through the darkest times.

I still think that is a peculiar word choice. People don't own people.

Oxford Dictionary definition of the word is:

disown

"refuse to acknowledge or maintain any connection with."

All faiths and schools of thought were not created on a foundation of loving kindness- Each disguises inexcusable behavior with loving kindness- Completely defeating the purpose of each teaching-

The first place a child learns of their estrangement from love is from their family- The second place they learn it is at church -- or within their spiritual circles-

Religion was created by men, not the "lesser" of the sexes- So it only stands reason why both sexes continue to cling to it-

'Honour' killings, FGM and forced arranged marriages are all terrible examples of extreme and inflexible religious beliefs.

There are many children who are disowned due to religion. I say disowned because it's the word I usually see used if they are driven off for their sexuality, choice of partner or lack of religious conviction. I still think that is a peculiar word choice. People don't own people.

Petit Fromage I agree that children brought up in a home where parent's inflexible , rigid interpretations of religious beliefs/"laws" can be deeply damaged. I think it is as damaging for the boys though, in a different way, because of what they are potentially taught about men/women/relationships

It seems to me that all religions are paternalistic and not in a good way. I am sure that it can be deeply damaging to children, especially girls, to be brought up in a home where the parents espouse extreme and inflexible religious beliefs.

I agree Madgran one's perception of religion and how they respond to others can be a factor.

The middle D of some friends. over the last few years has instigated periods of reduced contact especially with her mother, as her parents are Catholic and in their D's eyes, she having joined a Pentecostal Church, they are not 'true believers.

Don’t think Yoda knew you were a Jedi, HolyHannah.

I dont really see why religion per se plays a part in estrangement. The individual interpretation of it might. So if someone who is following a religion might then use that as a reason for their actions and those actions might cause estrangement

An example I am aware of is Same Sex marriage which is now legal. Someone following to the letter the guidance in the Roman Catholic church would not attend a same sex marriage ceremony which is viewed as misuse of the sacrament of marriage between a man and a woman. So parents might refuse to attend an ACs wedding. Or siblings. Or an AC who has a parent who has "come out".

In the same way with the quotes given, it would be the interpretation of those words that might cause actions that bring about estrangement, not the themes themselves. Although snuffed out is a new biblical term on me!

Luckygirl, Unlike you I don't respect the beliefs of others. I do respect others' right to hold beliefs however silly or stupid. I can be as silly and stupid as anyone, and like to have my beliefs challenged. However many people dislike being challenged to I hold my tongue.

I'm an agnostic, My mind is open and I respect people's choices when it comes to faith except:

When they join extreme sects with prejudice or damaging views

When they use it to abuse/shame/control others

When they use it to appear innocent of their own terrible behaviour.

Having religion is never proof of goodness

Well said Lolo

Religion when weaponised like this is all about control. My faith is exactly that, mine and I do ascribe to a mainstream christian religion. The problem to me isn’t religion itself, but others wielding it like some sort of morality sword to try and control the beliefs of others. Which as many of you have pointed out flies directly in the face of the basis of most religions to treat other with respect and kindness.
I very much ascribe to the old saying of don’t talk religion or politics both are personal and should stay as such.
With that said I have seen many people (both EP/EC) in my life who have weaponised religious beliefs and it has caused estrangement, however I think the religious aspect of these disagreements simply masks and brings to the fore the real issues, like control and intolerance.

Chewbacca I had no idea there was a 'Jedi Apprentice Book'.