Domestic Violence from kids to parents

I am correct HolyHannah when I say that AC estrange themselves from good, decent and loving families. I know I'm correct because it happened to us; there's no "maybe" about it.

Once again, you are invalidating the experience of an EP. You are invalidating myexperience and not for the first time, I'm asking you not to do it.

I don't invalidate your experiences; don't invalidate mine.

I was replying to EllanVannin. The reply function isn’t working.

Bibbity, who is saying how much better it was for children o be shipped of to institutions ? My post at 17.00 refers to the abuse children experienced in those institutions and in their homes.

Smileless - I always expect people to speak to their own experience and from their own perspective. I can speak for mine as can other EAC and I stand by my position that I have never met an EAC who feels they walked away from a "loving family".

It is not "invalidating" anyone to state 'that' and you may be correct that it does happen but I guess those EAC just don't talk about it. EAC that do talk about why they are estranged seem to universally cite "family issues". That just seems to be how it is.

SN children used to be shipped off to institutions where they were more than likely physically, emotionally and sexually abused. But please do continue with how much better that was for everyone.

If a parent is saying everything is fine and their child is saying everything is not fine.... I honestly would lean towards the child/AC because they are "not fine" and addressing that matters.

Yes I am sure Hannah, looking back there were also children experiencing significant neglect, I was a child too so dont know what interventions were put in place but I suspect very little. I also remember a teacher mocking a child with a speech delay, and if I can remember it goodness knows how the child concerned now feels.

Galaxy -- I would have been happy to be 'left alone in the corner'. That would have been preferable to the constant tormenting and bullying the adults around me failed to address/stop.

That's my point HolyHannah you can't say. You can only speak of your own experience and EP's can only speak of theirs.

Your experience isn't invalidated here on GN so don't repeatedly invalidate EP's experiences by constantly saying what you've never heard EAC say.

EllanVannin -- "Now tell me why there are so many children with mental health problems."

In my case, most of my MHI's are due to Narcissistic abuse from my 'mom' while being enabled by my 'dad' and bullied by everyone. I was suicidality depressed because I felt so unloved/wanted.

Children end up with mental health issues because adults around them respond to 'inappropriate behavior' in unhealthy ways. In doing so they make the issues worse and the cycle continues/gets worse.

Galaxy now isn't that the sad truth

There were a number of children in my school 40 years ago who looking back had clear developmental issues or were autistic, they were left to sit in the corner of the classroom, it was not a good time.

I don't think there is a perfect family anyway so I suppose it is all about where an individual draws the line on what constitutes a good family.

If I draw my line here

My mum drew here line there

Then an effort needed to be made to meet in the middle so that both of us could feel happy and comfortable in the relationship.

I drew my line and explained why I wanted that line moved. My mum drew her line and said my line wasn't a problem, imagined, all in my head and also she never crossed any line at all anyway but the line wasn't ever going to move an inch because she was a good and wonderful mother thank you very much. Full stop.

Hense.... Estrangement.

Smileless -- "I have yet to meet an EAC who has admitted that they estranged their parents when there weren't any family issues." -- Maybe because that's not the truth? I can't say and any of the EAC I know can't "admit" to estranging from a "loving family" because We didn't. We estranged from unhealthy families.

From my parent's and in-laws point of view we have estranged from "loving families". The fact that we don't view our families as "loving" is how We feel. I can't say/admit, "You are wonderful and loving. I'm broken/brainwashed by my spouse so I walked away from all your love and support." because that would be a lie and is certainly not my reality.

Not so far as I'm concerned is " my day over " Bibbity.

I nor my family will ever be dictated to on how to bring up children in the 21st century thank you very much.

Now tell me why there are so many children with mental health problems.

Sorry I posted this too late, long after the discussion moved on.
EllenVannin I respect your experience but disagree with your points of view. So far as there being more children with psychiatric problems the reality is, we know more about children's m.h.
So far as ADHD goes, its a developmental disorder and has always existed. Schools, parents, GP, social workers, health visitors, CAMHS etc are now much more aware and well educated in assessing and treating developmental disorders.
ADHD can present in a similar way to an attachment disorder. That led to many parents being blamed as poor parents.

Historically, many children were shipped off to boarding schools. I don't mean the wealthy families who still do that, but working class children. Most towns had a residential school, often said to be for children with asthma or similar but in reality were places that children who would now be said to be neglected were sent. A friend of mine went to our local school for vulnerable children, along with her five siblings. Her mum died, dad couldn't cope so that was the solution.
Many "naughty boys" who were sent off to huge institutions for well, naughty boys. They came home for the school holidays, often created mayhem, their parents still couldn't manage them, eventually many of them went to Approved Schools for young offenders. Their backgrounds were neglect, physical abuse (or the thick ear) , parents with m.h/drink problems and the budget was available for residential education. We now know without doubt that any abuse those children experienced at home was exceeded in those institutions.
It's often said that things were better in the 50's, when a thick ear solved everything. Except that just isn't true.

I spend most of my life going in and out of early years providers, I have been in one today, the staff member had the baby welded to her hip. There are obviously poor providers as in all sectors but picking up a crying baby is fairly standard.

Early Years providers for infants to age 3 is a ratio of 1 staff member to three children. The move towards Graduate level staff led the government to suggest a ratio of 1 - 5 for key workers of graduate status. Of course, this suggestion was kicked out by Early Years providers. How can a degree mean you can change the nappies and supervise 5 babies or toddlers when if you have a Diploma or good GCSE's you can only manage 3. Bonkers as ever.
Nurseries are generally speaking very good providers because of the standards expected and set out in guidance. Childminders have to meet the same standards and evidence they are meeting the developmental needs of the children in their care.

www.momjunction.com/articles/helpful-tips-understand-child-psychology_0074385/

This is a lovely summary of good current parenting practices.

And I have yet to meet an EAC who has admitted that they estranged their parents when there weren't any family issues. Your POV being that it doesn't happen to "good" families doesn't alter the fact that it does HolyHannah.

But from what you say, your parents and your H's parents weren't loving families were they, and you had good reason to walk away. When you tell us that you are believed, so the same courtesy should be extended to EP's who say their EAC were raised in good, loving homes, especially on an open forum where you know EP's and EGP's read and post.

Oh my, the conversation really moved on by the time I responded to Smileless’ comment!

EllanVannin -- "Estrangements happen in the most loving of families so how would you account for that HH ?" -- I have yet to meet an EAC who hasn't cited some type of family 'issues' as the reason they walked away. So from my POV it doesn't happen to "good" families.

Now my 'parents' and in-laws would say they are "loving families" and that husband and I walked away for "no good reason".

Who is 'right'? I guess from their perspective they are. From my perspective We are.

My gd is 17 now, because her mother put her into care 2 years ago due to her bad behaviour, so I'm the one left 'holding the fort', and it's NOT easy, even though she has social workers etc.

Ignorance is bliss I guess

Smileless2012

There will be parents who can't financially manage for a full years' maternity leave bearing in mind statutory maternity leave is for 39 weeks. For the first 6 weeks 90% of the average weekly pay is received, and for the remaining 33 weeks, it's either a weekly payment of 90% or £151.20 which ever is the lower.

So despite the cost of child minding and day care nursery fees, some will return to work before their child is a year old for financial reasons.

Yes. So SMP is paid until around the 9 month leave mark. During this time, annual leave accrues and that can provide another month, or more, of paid leave.

Many parents do financially prepare for a full year’s leave. Others return to work sooner. Some return to work part time. Some don’t return to work at all.

And then there are parents who feel that their child being cared for at nursery or by a childminder is not in the best interests of their child. And they make alternative arrangements i.e. family members.

Both my boy’s flourished at nursery. It was great for them. They were around 13/14 months when they started nursery, so both were mobile. And they were also amongst the youngest in the entire nursery (excluding the 6 week old I mentioned). From speaking with the staff, it is definitely unusual for them to care for such young, immobile children. I can only speak for my area though, it could be different elsewhere.