Domestic Violence from kids to parents

TBF I think that's an over simplification HolyHannah and merely gives the impression that a parent with this approach, doesn't care too and cannot be bothered to do any different.

Infants of course want and need to bond, to be held and snuggled but a mother or any care giver can not do that 24/7.

Bibbity -- "if someone isn’t willing to care for those needs as well as the physical then they aren’t ready for children." -- This is why husband and I didn't have children until later in life.

Neither of us had a model of what healthy parenting looked like. We got healthy/went through recovery and learned about child-psychology before committing to becoming parents ourselves.

I certainly would never leave my children with people who would want to 'parent'/grandparent the way mine did.

Well I can only speak from my experience but 2 of my children went to a childminder and they were always cared for very well
My daughters nursery has a ration of 3 to 1 and again they are very very baby led.
It’s what I checked for when I chose them.

Childcare practitioners would be up to date on all these practices.

I wonder how this works with babies in the care of child minders and day nurseries. Is there always the time and the staff to pick up and cuddle the babies in their care, every time they cry.

Bibbity -- I wasn't going to mention that aspect of EllanVannin's comment but since you brought it up...

I agree. That is not even close to how I handle infants. The idea of, "I fed you, you're warm and dry... You can't need anything else right now (so you shouldn't be crying) because I say you have been properly taken care of." is a troubling mentality from my POV.

Infants want/need to bond and that includes snuggling/being held.

Unfortunately it has been shown to cause damage to a developing baby.
Why would you leave a tiny baby with no concept of logic or understand alone, scared and for all you know in pain.

If you were sat sobbing and your husband put you in the room and closed the door would you have certain feelings about that?
We have learned the importance of emotional development.
And it very important to this topic.
A child can be physically looked after.
But if they are emotionally neglected that can have severe long term affects to them as a person and also damage the people they then interact with.
We have started to see babies as a whole instead of a some basic lump.
They have emotional needs.

and if someone isn’t willing to care for those needs as well as the physical then they aren’t ready for children.

Really Galaxy.

It was 30 years ago Bibbity and I still don't regard that having made sure a baby has been been fed, winded, is warm, clean and dry and left to cry is barbaric, or negligent unless the baby is left alone with no one monitoring his/her welfare.

Lots of advice from professionals doesnt age well smileless. I have worked with children for a very long time and looking back at some advice we gave I wince!

What a courageous speech Iam. Thank goodness his mother eventually found the courage to leave that awful man.

It sounds as if she'd had no idea he was also being abused and it was that, rather than the abuse she was being subjected too, that enabled her to do what was needed.

Smileless -- Some of those things have changed because the products (like some talc's) are not healthy for infants. Other practices have changed because better principles then "the old way" have proven more beneficial to the child. To me these are good things.

Yes they were smileless
As you admit that was many decades ago and thankfully we have become far more educated now.
CC and CIO and now often viewed as negligent. It’s proven (as in actual science) to cause damage to babies.

Again. Thankfully we’ve come a long way from seeing a babies actual needs being met as a negative thing.

Sorry x posted with Bibbity and others. For what its worth, Im a great believer in cuddling babies, responding with warmth, food and reassurance when they cry.
A good push round the block in a pram helps sometimes.

Barbaric parenting really!!! So the midwife's during both my pregnancies in the early 80's were promoting barbaric parenting practices; and you say EllanV's post is "absolute rubbish".

This morning, I heard an inter view by Emma Barnett on radio 5, with Mark Fletcher, Conservative MP. He made a speech in the HoC recently about his experience of domestic and emotional abuse, as a boy of 11. It's available on line, as is the interview with Emma Barnett today.

He said he hadn't intended to disclose personal details in his HoC speech, which was aimed at raising awareness. When he stood to speak, he said he put his notes down and spoke of his own experiences. At the time, he felt fine but for some days afterwords felt drained. (my words not his).

He spoke in the interview I heard this morning of the terror he felt when his step father arrived home. About the physical and emotional abuse of his mother, which eventually left her "broken". He spoke of emotional abuse by this man towards him, which he initially kept hidden from his mother. The final assault on his mother left her in need to psychiatric care. When she told him not to worry that she'd make it ok with step dad so they could all be together again, he told her he didn't want that and opened up to her about the abuse he was experiencing. It seems his mum did then end the relationship.

I do hope that his bravery influences his party to ensure services focussed on preventing d.a., on providing the support that is needed, rather than the continued slash and burn approach.

EllanVannin

HH, to a new mum, a new baby can manipulate. Unless a baby has a pain ( wind ) or is hungry or wet/soiled it won't cry, but if a new mum picks up a new baby every time there's a murmur, the baby will then get to know that attention is being paid to it that if it makes a noise it will be picked up and immediately stops the noise.

A baby knows from a very early age that mum is a " pushover " so will gain her attention every time, so boundaries start from a very early age.

A fed, changed and warm baby will/should sleep---if not LEAVE them to cry as I did and don't be ruled by this small object who has to learn that it won't get its own way. It works.
The same applies when they're growing. Firm but fair. That works as well.

What absolute rubbish.

Humans especially babies need love. Actual human contact.
Thank God this type of barbaric parenting is on its way out.
A baby who needs a cuddle isn’t manipulating.
A cuddle is a need. Just as the other things.

Agreed

But mostly, children want what they want - I'm certain of that! absolutely rosecarmel and some continue to do so, no matter how old they aregrin.

No, Smileless- Not "some"- All- ?

Everybody wants, no exceptions!

I was thinking of general day to day parenting with babies and small children HolyHannah like how bottles are made up, using talc, terry's nappies, weaning, potty training, setting boundaries from an early age; that sort of thing.

But mostly, children want what they want - I'm certain of that! absolutely rosecarmel and some continue to do so, no matter how old they are.

We're born into this world with the ability to want and to need, both of which begin to develop during infancy-

Any type of trauma experienced during infancy can trigger the establishment of an underlying stress that manifests itself as aggression later on-

The cause of trauma could be a result of environmental factors, chemical allergy, sensitivities, air quality, drugs-

One such traumatized child can establish a pattern which if left unchecked can be adopted by siblings-

Consider what it must have been like for infants when parents practiced ice baths to bring down fevers-

I had horrible parents, just horrible .. LMAO but truth be told, I'd much rather them than any of my siblings!

I was raised in a verbally aggressive region of the United States- Language was a double-edged sword: cutting and humbling, compassionate and informative- In other words, aggression was part of every day life: Normal!!!

Anyway .. I don't think infants "manipulate"- I do think children at a very young age exhibit the ability to discern or recognize that if they do X they may get what they want- But mostly, children want what they want- I'm certain of that!

Smileless -- "I do wonder why it's necessary to 'fix' something that was never broken." -- From my POV there's a lot broken in society and I am glad that things are moving in a more positive direction.

OK Smileless

Well that's very kind of you Starblaze but I don't need you to welcome any of the points I wish to add to this or any other discussion.

Some aspects perhaps, but when I hear about how some parenting practices have evolved, I do wonder why it's necessary to 'fix' something that was never broken.

MrsWarren -- I agree. Labeling a child as 'bad' doesn't fix anything as children do not have the mental/emotional tools or "power" to change their life situation. Minor children only have the ability to react to their environment. That's why it's the responsibility of the parent(s)/adults around them to find solutions/work with the child to manage undesirable behaviors.

Expectations on parenting has changed as have laws in some some cases ('spanking'/physical punishment has been banned in some countries) because society is learning the long-term impact of certain behaviors.

Just because something was 'normal'/societally accepted "back in the day" doesn't mean it is okay now. "Back in the day" it wasn't uncommon to see passengers holding babies while driving. Society understands the dangers in that now, so child safety seats are mandatory.

Times change/evolve and the choices are grow and accept or stay in the same place...