Domestic Violence from kids to parents

Smileless you are very welcome to add that to the discussion but if it's biased towards upbringing and family it is probably because that statistically is a larger factor and of great concern.

For me, part of being open minded is to accept that not all abusers were abused or witnessed abuse during their childhood.

There's a great deal of focus on this thread about what was witnessed, learned and/or experienced during childhood and very little that takes into account factors and influences outside of the family environment.

I disagree Smileless parenting is and needs to continue evolving and listening or educating ourselves is never wasted time.

Who has said that babies are objects?

I'm sure the majority of us who have raised our own children, and those of us who are a part of the GC's lives know about personal growth and don't have to research it.

Any abuse is wrong. All abusers need to either get the appropriate punishment or intervention to help them manage their behaviour... If we aren't going to be open minded and ask ourselves:

Why is this happening?

Then we aren't going to be part of the solution and yes, the discussion is pointless.

I do not believe the discussion is pointless but I'm not forcing anyone to listen, that's a choice.

Can we let this particular matter rest now.

Can i please also point out that babies aren't objects and that's not a reasonable thing to say either....

Personal growth, read the research, be a positive force to all children you meet. They may need it, you don't know what is going on behind closed doors.

The only difference between a school setting and a home setting is that, we are held accountable for abusive language as adults I'm afraid.

I would not say those things at home either.

A school setting isn't the same as a home setting; you're talking to other people's children, not your own children or your GC.

Can we let this particular matter rest now.

I agree MrsWarren but some do not show violence and aggression until they are teenagers or adults and what they do exhibit has nothing to do with the environment in which they were raised.

I agree of course that it can and often does stem from childhood but it isn't always the fault of the parents, and parent blaming in all cases, not only takes the focus away from the actual cause, but can prevent a parent seeking help for fear of the wrong assumptions being made, and being blamed.

During both pregnancies, not picking up your baby every time s/he cries was constantly being reinforced EllanV.

I agree that boundaries need to start from a very early age and the one who benefits the most from those boundaries is the child.

3nanny6, Im not judging you but I am afraid that's not the correct response and probably won't get you the result you want. I won't go over why again.

In a school setting we would get a warning at least for calling a child naughty or nasty because it is considered verbally abusive language. There are better ways.

Smileless2012

Yes they did and from what I've read about Hindley her mother and sister were pilloried following her arrest and subsequent trial, despite the that had it not been for Hindley's brother in law reporting them to the police, they may never have been stopped.

I agree that "lack of funds and resources play a massive part" as does a lack of basic discipline in the home, together with the myriad of influences outside of the family.

Head injuries, death of a parent/loved one, being bullied at school. It is a long list. When a child is removed from their home where domestic violence is happening, that adds another layer of trauma to the child.

When a child is showing violence and aggression, that is the time for intervention. It is better to look at the situation and say “That child is struggling, what can we do to help” rather than “That child’s behaviour is terrible, they ought be ashamed of themselves”.

Children are not children forever, and if we do not identify violence and aggression as a communication to us that something isn’t okay in their world, and instead label the child as “bad”, then we, as a society, have failed them.

HH, to a new mum, a new baby can manipulate. Unless a baby has a pain ( wind ) or is hungry or wet/soiled it won't cry, but if a new mum picks up a new baby every time there's a murmur, the baby will then get to know that attention is being paid to it that if it makes a noise it will be picked up and immediately stops the noise.

A baby knows from a very early age that mum is a " pushover " so will gain her attention every time, so boundaries start from a very early age.

A fed, changed and warm baby will/should sleep---if not LEAVE them to cry as I did and don't be ruled by this small object who has to learn that it won't get its own way. It works.
The same applies when they're growing. Firm but fair. That works as well.

Yes they did and from what I've read about Hindley her mother and sister were pilloried following her arrest and subsequent trial, despite the that had it not been for Hindley's brother in law reporting them to the police, they may never have been stopped.

I agree that "lack of funds and resources play a massive part" as does a lack of basic discipline in the home, together with the myriad of influences outside of the family.

Smileless2012

This thread isn't about abuse from minor children toward parents, it's about "Domestic violence from kids to parents" regardless of the age or gender of the child.

There as you say, various reasons why a child may become abusive, and I posted about reasons other than being a victim of or witness too abuse as a child in an earlier post.

I don't subscribe to the view that people are born bad although that's often a point of view posited by some, and has been said about the perpetrators of particularly heinous crimes for example Hindley, Brady, the Wests and the child killers of little Jamie Bulger.

My reading of the OP and the use of “kids” in the title, suggests that we are talking about minor children. The OP does specifically mention violence from sons to their mothers.

Anyway, everyone will read the thread differently and post in accordance with their interpretation. And as the conversation progresses, issues relating to the initial topic will be discussed. That’s the nature of conversation. That can’t be helped.

It is known Hindley, Brady etc all came from highly abusive backgrounds.

We have the knowledge. It’s the prevention that we, as a society, need to work on.

I think the lack of funds and resources play a massive part.

This thread isn't about abuse from minor children toward parents, it's about "Domestic violence from kids to parents" regardless of the age or gender of the child.

There as you say, various reasons why a child may become abusive, and I posted about reasons other than being a victim of or witness too abuse as a child in an earlier post.

I don't subscribe to the view that people are born bad although that's often a point of view posited by some, and has been said about the perpetrators of particularly heinous crimes for example Hindley, Brady, the Wests and the child killers of little Jamie Bulger.

Reading through the OP again, I can see that the post was specifically about sons.

There is much known about the effects of the lack of a positive, caring male figure in the life of young boys.

In the US, I know there is an organisation called Big Brother Big Sister which aims to partner children (mostly of single parent families) with a positive adult figure of the same sex. I think there is a similar organisation in the London area, although I am not sure about the rest of the U.K.

I don’t agree that this thread is going off the subject.

The thread is about violence from minor children to their parents.

The problem with that though, is that violence and aggression in a child is a clear sign of something going on. That could be abuse (witnessing domestic violence, being physically/sexually/emotionally abused, not being given proper boundaries and guidance in life, neglect), a traumatic event or behavioural issues.

With intervention, violence and aggression in children can be managed and they can learn to channel their anger and frustrations in other ways.

A child is always growing and learning. Their behaviours and personality are not set.

To disregard the many reasons why a child is behaving violently is to say that some children are born bad. And I have never seen or read anything that suggests this is the case.

Thank-you Smileless2012. and some of the posts have been from people that do not have GC. To that I say unless you are walking in my shoes and have the scenarios I sometimes have to navigate through in regard of my GC then they do not know anything.

I will be out of this post now and off into the wide world for a few hours to take a rest from posting and receiving negative comments may I add none of those from you.

'let he who is without sin cast the first stone' sprung to mind when reading some of the responses to your post 3nanny. Despite it being suggested twice now by a poster that this particular issue has been discussed and should be left, some have felt the need to carry it on.

Let's hope your last post on this incident will be the last post on this incident.

I left the thread yesterday as I do have a life outside of Gransnet and do not have time to spend on it all day.

I see my name has been brought up several times by posters and thank-you to everyone that agreed with me as a GM that I was correct in leaving my D house the day my GD told me to F--k Off. I have always given clear boundaries to my own adult daughter and sadly it is her that has failed to extend having boundaries to her own child (my GD) so it is no surprise this was going to happen at some point.
Contrary to a GN member that pm me saying do not be afraid to post because you are being judged and although you are a great input to your D AND GD lives this person said I had no right to call my GD naughty.

I will clarify to all that I am from old fashioned up bringing
and would have got much more from my mother if I ever dared to tell anyone to F--k Off. Also my own children were given clear boundaries and never once told their GM to F--k Off. I stand by my decision that telling my GD she was very naughty was a correct response.

To one or two posters who said children should not be made to feel bad about themselves I will say that I had a conversation with my GD about the day that this happened.
I asked her what her teacher would say if she heard her swearing in that way. My GD replied to me "I would never swear in school because I am not allowed, but Mummy always swears on her phone so that means I can swear at home" The whole problem created by my D who needs parenting classes to teach her that children learn by example and if you set bad examples then you reap what you sew.
Also no private messages thanks all i done was reply to the original posters post, and I have found many posters had some informative posts.

I agree Iam that there should be another thread to discuss protecting children from abuse, or the thread for EAC that have been abused would be more appropriate.

Some women who are successful in finding accommodation in Women's Refuges still end up going back to their abuser, being coerced into believing that things will change, that they'll never be beaten again.

They often find that what they return too is more horrifying than what they left because they dared to leave in the first place.

I'm not saying it does Starblaze but the reality of domestic abuse has to be taken into account.

Yes, SS will remove children who are at risk because of domestic abuse in the home, but they can only do so if it's reported.

There are victims who are too afraid to reach out for help for fear of the consequences. Abusers isolate their victims from family and friends so their victim believes that their abuser is the only person they have.

This thread is about parents who are physically abused by their children, and although the perpetrators may have witnessed or been subjected too abuse as children, so that being a factor that needs recognition, this thread isn't about child abuse per se.

There is a thread to discuss that issue and it's a shame that this thread is going off the subject.

That's a terrible situation for that poor woman to be in welbeck and the term Stockholm syndrome is appropriate. Regardless of her biological relationship with her abusers, her children, she is reliant on them as her 'captors', those who are keeping her in a lifestyle that benefits them rather than her.

Just as it's heartbreaking for children to recognise that their parents are their abusers, so is it for parents to recognise that their own children are theirs.

The issue of protection of children from witnessing domestic abuse probably needs a thread of its own.
The evidence is clear, witnessing abuse, usually from the father/male partner to the mother emotionally harms children. Children under age three can't really differentiate between an attack on their mother and an attack on themselves.
Safeguarding guidance means the Police notify children's Services every time they're called out to domestic abuse. Smilesless is right to point out the difficulties many women have in leaving abusive male partners. I haven't looked at the latest research but it used to be that on average, women separate over twenty times, before being strong enough to make that final step and leave.
Women fear losing their children, they fear another beating if they are honest with a police officer or social worker. They may be dependent on their partner financially never mind emotionally.
Sadly Women's Refuges and the few charities set up to work with men who acknowledge domestic abuse are struggling due to the austerity approach. Many are closing, leaving support for children in these families vanishingly rare.
The Freedom Project was one resource developed to help women in abusive relationships, especially women who had a series of abusive relationships.
Removing children from home is always the last resort, as it should be.

Smileless I already clarified a difference between fault and responsibility.

I'm afraid the responsibility to protect our minor children doesn't change regardless of the situation.