Domestic Violence from kids to parents

*A child of 3 hitting their parents? 5? 7? 10? Or older. When does it go from a behavioural issue^
to a criminal matter

Well, MrsWarren as I said earlier today, the children that I saw being violent to tonwards their mother are aged 7 & 9. I've no idea when it changes from behavioural to criminal; can you tell me? Isn't the age of criminal responsibility 10 years old in the UK? But wouldn't you rather help the child to break the cycle of violence rather than investigate his criminality potential?

From what you've said already Chewbacca, the level of violence is already very concerning; drop kicking their mother to the back of her legs and knocking her off her feet. It's terrible.

Smileless2012

As I've posted MrsWarren he was a manipulative child.

Yes, that’s the third time you’ve said it now.

I get it. You’re going to keep labelling the young child as “manipulative.”

Which is a real shame.

They all have an influence. Why are single mothers always blamed? Lots are abandoned by men - who never seem to be criticised!

I so agree with this statement hetty. The young woman that I referred to in my post @ 17.11 today is on her own, with 2 young boys, trying to work, manage the home and keep them all together. She has a damned hard row to hoe. I have no idea where the boys father is but I'm told that he sees them occasionally. I have no idea why the boys are showing physical violence towards their mother; whether it's behaviour that they've witnessed or whether it's behaviour borne out of fear and frustration for their situation. But I do worry that as they grow older, bigger and stronger, the level of violence that I've witnessed will intensify.

There are so many factors I suppose. I always remember reading about Stephen West ( Fred and Rose West's son) who had grown up a normal loving person despite the evil raging in his home.

Hetty58 -- I have never seen anyone blame single mothers specifically for how AC turn out. In my experiences, the single mothers I have known have often been the better parents I have seen. Because there was no other adult to help carry the daily load, they tended to run their homes more as a team then the way my own 'mom' did.

"Physical punishment and bullying could set an example of violence. I'm more concerned about over-discipline than a lack of it." -- On that I completely agree.

As I've posted MrsWarren he was a manipulative child.

Chewbacca

I can agree with you on the issue of violent behaviour being passed down from parents to their children; as any learned behaviour is, good or bad. And whilst I'm sure that there are parallels between them, it would be a pity if the topic of child to parents violence was subsumed into abuse by parents to their children, which is a topic that has been discussed widely on GN.
This particular topic is one that has rarely, if ever, been discussed on GN before and it would be interesting to hear opinions, from a slightly different angle, of an increasingly common problem. For instance, I'd be interested to know if children who have been kept in lockdown for almost 6 months, (due to covid), and experienced a loss of their friendships and peer groups and general routine interaction, has exacerbated the problem of domestic violence and, if so, what's being done to address that. How can those children and their parents break that cycle before it becomes entrenched behaviour.
I think it could be an interesting subject to discuss in its own right.

At what age do you consider it domestic violence?

A child of 3 hitting their parents? 5? 7? 10? Or older. When does it go from a behavioural issue to a criminal matter?

I haven't seen anyone blaming single mothers Hetty. Single mother's are going to be in a vulnerable position if they have an abusive son.

I can agree with you on the issue of violent behaviour being passed down from parents to their children; as any learned behaviour is, good or bad. And whilst I'm sure that there are parallels between them, it would be a pity if the topic of child to parents violence was subsumed into abuse by parents to their children, which is a topic that has been discussed widely on GN.
This particular topic is one that has rarely, if ever, been discussed on GN before and it would be interesting to hear opinions, from a slightly different angle, of an increasingly common problem. For instance, I'd be interested to know if children who have been kept in lockdown for almost 6 months, (due to covid), and experienced a loss of their friendships and peer groups and general routine interaction, has exacerbated the problem of domestic violence and, if so, what's being done to address that. How can those children and their parents break that cycle before it becomes entrenched behaviour.
I think it could be an interesting subject to discuss in its own right.

Smileless2012

I knew the child and his family and witnessed the effect his behaviour had on his family; he was manipulative.

This child's mother wasn't abusive HolyHannah.

I didn’t dispute that the child used manipulative behaviours to get his needs met.

I said that labelling a young child as “manipulative” is wrong.

Unfortunately this does go on I work for the Council and we do get calls like this, it really is one of the worst things a Mother would have to suffer, like the man said though it was allowed to continue and was not nipped in the bud, but also we are not all be good at discipline

Lavazza1st, I think the statement is overly simplistic. Violent behaviour is just not explained away by a lack of discipline from mothers.

What kind of discipline (appropriate or not) is rather important, don't you think? Physical punishment and bullying could set an example of violence. I'm more concerned about over-discipline than a lack of it.

What about dads, siblings, childcare providers, anyone else caring for children? They all have an influence. Why are single mothers always blamed? Lots are abandoned by men - who never seem to be criticised!

The troubled teenagers that I taught were more likely to be neglected - rather than under-disciplined. Many felt that nobody really cared about them, nobody talked to them at home - very sad.

It's a fact that teenage boys and young men (from all backgrounds) are often liable to go through a 'troubled' phase as they mature. It may involve crime, drugs, drink and violence.

The vast majority grow out of it and become pleasant 'normal' adults.

Very relative to the discussion so far I would think Chewbacca and the general consensus that some issues/behaviours are passed down to some of these children/adult children

Sorry if you don't agree but I feel it is relevant and stand by my comment

don't forget parents to children or siblings, uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparents

But this thread is about "Domestic Violence from kids to parents", not parental abuse to children; their is already a current thread relating to that.

Yes that's a good point Chardy about daughter's and that father's can also be victims.

Chardy don't forget parents to children or siblings, uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparents or all the abuse and dysfunction that goes on in families to be thoroughly all inclusive

I knew the child and his family and witnessed the effect his behaviour had on his family; he was manipulative.

This child's mother wasn't abusive HolyHannah.

Domestic violence is not just sons to mothers, daughters can do it too. And fathers aren't necessarily safe from domestic violence either.

I had a friend whose eldest son, at primary school age, was very manipulative, making his parents and his siblings lives extremely difficult at times.

They went as far as seeing a child psychologist and were quite frankly amazed at how quickly and easily he had him 'wrapped around his little finger'.

I feel very uncomfortable with adults labelling a child as “manipulative”. I also feel very uncomfortable assigning adult motives to children. Especially young children.

We need to remember that children have very little to no control over their environment. They too have wants/needs and at times do not know how to ask for those wants/needs to be met. Your child is trying to communicate with you. The word “manipulative” has such a negative connotation. It is wrong to use it to describe small children acting biologically normal in a world that isn't set up for them.

Remember that you’re talking about a child under the age of 10 here, not a Machiavellian mastermind. A child. Under the age of 10. Think about that...

Smileless -- I had similar situations growing up. My 'mom' would complain to anyone who would listen as to what a 'problem' I was. A few times these adults actually talked to me/observed me and never saw any of what my 'mom'/family saw.

Eventually they would say, "Hannah seems fine. Is there anything else going on that might be causing the problems you are having with her? Is she reacting to something?" and of course that would be the last my 'mom' would complain to that adult because they weren't 'seeing' what she was/they were wrong. And worse, they suggested she might look for a problem that wasn't me, like maybe something SHE was doing...

So my 'mom' concluded that I must "have 'them' fooled"/manipulated them because they didn't see the 'real' Me/her perspective of Me.

I had a friend whose eldest son, at primary school age, was very manipulative, making his parents and his siblings lives extremely difficult at times.

They went as far as seeing a child psychologist and were quite frankly amazed at how quickly and easily he had him 'wrapped around his little finger'.

They did their best, as most parents do and as with the child you referred too Fuschiarose he grew "into a fine young man".

One of his siblings who'd they'd never had any 'problems' with eventually estranged his parents when he was in his early 30's.

There are many contributing factors, 'poor parenting' is one but it's not the only one.

Seems odd EllanVannin to abhor violence in the child but condone it in the adult.

There is a very big difference between " I don't like what you are doing" and "I don't like you"! There is a very big difference between "That is a very unkind, nasty thing to do!" and "You are a nasty, unkind child!"

Calling the behaviour what it is rather than describing the person in that way is not "kid glove treatment!!

Interestingly my mother used to say to me "I love you very much but I don't like that behaviour because …..!" and that was 60 odd years ago. I think she was ahead of her time in her thinking!

Fuchsiarose

Separating the child from the action is the the psychologist way. Saying the child is a naughty nasty child is wrong, but telling the child why it is wrong to behave like that is preferable. Kids dont even listen to that now. A mother I knew behaved badly towards her son, and I was forever reasoning with her that she had to take responsibility for her outbursts towards him.. he grew into a fine young man and became a police officer in spite of his frazzled mother. The other good child, grew up to do nothing with their life. Strange times

You do not know what scars that boy carries underneath.