SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Hopefully it wont be too long before you are Madgran.

Thank you Nell it's good of you to pop on and give us all your best wishes which are valuable, important and supportive.

So sorry about your MIL Smiles, I hope things will be peaceful for her.

Best wishes to everyone else - I wish I had some stellar advice for those struggling but alas, no. My best wishes to all though. x

It's been lovely here for the past couple of days with clear blue skies and plenty of sunshine. I was looking out across our roof terrace at the sea, watching the sea gulls and hearing their cries and feeling so lucky to be living here

That sounds so lovely. I can't wait to be by the sea again.

He's going to 'phone the home tomorrow and ask 3nanny. He's had his first jab so we're hoping that will help.

No more news which means every time the 'phone rings we look at one another and answer tenatively.

It's been lovely here for the past couple of days with clear blue skies and plenty of sunshine. I was looking out across our roof terrace at the sea, watching the sea gulls and hearing their cries and feeling so lucky to be living here.

Lots of early spring excitement going on now people feel the news is better about the future. The lodge opening in April is good news Smileless a good time for a short break.
I hope Mr. S. is holding up after the news of his mum.
I know I heard that people in care homes can see a relative and even hold hands with them not sure the date it begins hopefully Mr. S. can do that.

Great news about your lodge Smileless. I hope Mr S can say goodbye to his mum

Thank you for the flowers PF. She's not eating, just taking fluids so I don't think it will be long now I'm just praying that he will be able to say goodbye.

I didn't have the opportunity when I lost my mum and that still upsets me.

Bless her, her funeral is all arranged and paid for so that's one thing that Mr. S. and his siblings wont have to think about. That said, arranging my mum's helped in some ways but I think she was thinking ahead and that it might have been difficult for all 5 of her children to agree on the final arrangements.

Our little poodle is doing well. I got a repeat prescription yesterday so he has another week's worth now and should be fully recovered by next weekend.

Thank you for your kind messages.

for your MIL Smiles and hugs for you and your lovely DH. How is your little dog?

* we are all to a certain extent defined by our past, but that doesn’t mean it has to define our future *

So well said smiles. Good news about your Lodge. Sorry to hear about Mt S’ mum. I feel blessed to have had my mum as a huge part of my 60th birthday. She and my future son in law had a fine time, sharing a bottle of red as (most) of the family gathered in my garden. I was 62 when she died. I felt like an orphan. It’s good to know Mr S has your love and support

Smiles we crossed posts. I am so sorry for you both. Will Mr S be able to see her? At least with palliative care she will be well looked after until the end. ?????. Never know the right words to say. But my heart goes out to you both.

Smiles I hope you do get to go to your holiday lodge. Some form of normality to recharge your batteries.

My brother and sister in law are coming to stay as soon as we have both had our 2 doses of vaccine. And it's ok for them to travel. Been a year since we saw eachother in the flesh. Can't wait to hold them.

Just found out that Mr. S's. mum is now having palliative care. She's not at all well and may not last another week. They're very close, poor man I can almost hear his heart breaking.

Accepting the things we cannot change was for me, the only way forward Whiff.

We are all to a certain extent shaped by our past but that doesn't mean we have to allow it to dictate our future.

I have no idea what life is like for our ES but I hope that like us he has moved on. That may have been easier for him as it was his decision to estrange but then again, to have done so for the reasons we suspect, maybe not.

We've had a letter today from the owners of the site where we have our holiday lodge, they're gearing up for April 12th when if all goes well, they'll be re opening.

I'm rather excited as we love it there and can hardly wait to go back for the first of what we hope will be many staycations.

Smiles my husband used to say that all the time even when he was dying. Your friend and my husband are so right. We can't change things that happened so no point worrying about it. We need to live for the now and future not the past. That's what I have decided to do. Change the things I can but not worry about things I can't. My son is lost to me. But I have family and friends that need me and me them. So they are my now and future. And that's all I am going to concentrate on.

All of you here have helped me realise that. So I am leaving the past where it belongs in the past. Armadillo you need to do that too. I don't know how old you are but you have the rest of your life to look forward to. Live it to the full. Because none of us know how long we will live. My husband dying aged 47 taught me that. As he would say life the best life you can.

We stopped trying to understand some time ago. It was one of the ways that we were able to move on. A very dear friend of mine often says about a situation or an experience she doesn't understand "it is what it is", and she's right.

Yes that what I was trying to say. It's very hard to understand people leaving good parents even with the facts.
Just the same as not being able to understand that some mums abuse their children and some neglect them and some hurt them physically and some kill their babies.
It doesn't matter about the facts that we know that mums hurt their babies in different ways and I know because my mum did that and it happens a lot and there are loads of abusive mums but it's not the same as understanding them doing it. I can't imagine how they can do that whatever the facts and reasons.

Morning everyone.

It's so good to see your post PF and as 3nanny said, you are so inspirational despite all that you're going through.

This will be a year of 'firsts' for you now that your lovely DH has gone; for you and your D's. Having missed out with so much with your first GD due to the estrangement, it bought tears to my eyes hearing how those little girls appear when you're face timing your D for a "chat and wave".

The wariness is understandable and despite that, your relationship does appear to be going from strength to strength. I was thinking that maybe your D is getting strength from her renewed contact with you all, especially her mum and this may be enabling her to go for what she wants and needs, enabling her to put any demands she may still be getting from her H to one side.

I hope that he will be able to see how this reconciliation is benefiting her and their children which will prevent him from being a stumbling block in the future.

Forgiveness I'm sure will come with time but it will take time, as there has been so much indescribable pain and suffering to come to terms with. Let it come naturally, don't try to force it and you may find that one day you have forgiven.

3nannythe effect of substances on one's mental health are frightening and can and do cause so much damage to the closest of relationships.

It's good to know that your D functions better now. Trust that can take a life time to achieve can be so quickly destroyed and is a hard thing to get back once lost.

It's a wonderful thing to be there for someone who has treated you and the ones you love so badly Whiff. It's understandable when someone can't do as you have done in such circumstances, and there can be nothing but admiration for what you and others are able to do despite the history of the relationship.

Although there are significant differences between the experiences of some EAC and EP/EGP, there are also similarities when it comes to the pain, emotions and desire to understand what we just cannot understand Armadillo.

Like you, EP's cannot understand how the AC they love and have cared for can walk away and like you, those decent, kind and loving parents cannot understand how or why any parent would abuse their own child, or how any adult can abuse any child.

Even though these are things we cannot understand they are things that we know happens. We know there are adults who never knew the love and affection every child has the right to experience from their own parents.

We also know the damage that a third party can cause to the closest and most loving family relationships.

You've described what many EP's have experienced perfectly Madgran. "They are manipulated into rewriting their own history with their parents" and interestingly in our case, what had become our ES's 'history' was in reality his wife's history with her own parents.

I interpreted your post and would have responded in the same vein Madgran has. Maybe you could explain what you do mean, as it appears we have both miss interpreted what you're trying to convey.

That's not what I mean though.

I would give my left arm for a mum who loved me and I don't understand how anyone could walk away from one. In my head a good mum and dad

In the scenario I have referred to, someone who is in an abusive coercive control relationship will not necessarily recognise that they are, that is the nature of the beast. So they are manipulated and lied to and bullied into believing that their mum and dad are the problem, that they have done things that justify walking away from them or going low contact etc. They are manipulated into rewriting their own history with their parents.

This is a different scenario to what you have experienced Armadillo but it is a type of abuse.

There are many different causes of estrangement, each case is different and every case causes pain sadly

I'm. So sorry I don't know how to put it right I don't think. I would give my left arm for a mum who loved me and I don't understand how anyone could walk away from one. In my head a good mum and dad would be too important to me so I can't understand even with facts. I knew my mum didn't love me when I was very small. We need to keep educating about abuse until abusive people are alone and have no one and it all stops.

I know how abusive people do it but I don't get how would they let it happen

Armadillo I'm sorry I dont quite understand what you are saying here...how who would let it happen? Do you mean how someone would allow themselves to be abused or have I misunderstood?

I am sorry that you went through that with your mum

It's hard because I always knew my mum didn't love me and I used to wish someone loving would save me so I can't get going from loving to abusive. I know how abusive people do it but I don't get how would they let it happen.
I cant put up with my mum. Some people you can but not people like my mum. There's horrible selfish people and there is abusive people who hurt you every chance they get. It's not the same. You can't tolerate abuse and mums are the worst kind when they do it because everyone knows what a mum is supposed to be like and that's the one person you are always meant to be able to rely on.

PM all the firsts after my husband died where hard the first time. It was always the run up to his death that effected me most. For 14 years it was like reliving it day by day until his last day. As I think I said my daughter found out what it did to me. And I made sure it would never happen again. In my experience the first 10 years are the worse. Grieving for my husband has never stopped just learned to cope with it. The children having his DNA and my 5 grandson's having part has always given me comfort. I am an atheist and don't believe in life after death or I will be with him again . But I know others do and that is great for them. But because of his DNA part of him lives on.

Our children knew from when they were 17 and 13 their dad wouldn't live 5 years. Our daughter was 20 and son 16 when he died. That is why I found it so hard to come to terms with what my son has done. He only has one parent but decided to throw me away. The way he did it was cruel and cowardly . We did not bring our children up to be either. Unfortunately he has decided to be like that as an adult. For 32 years he was a son to be proud of and he was so like his dad in looks and ways. When I last saw him was on my birthday he knew then what he was going to do and the way he was going to do it. That I can never forgive and of all the lies he has told the biggest and hardest one to bare was he loved me. He didn't like me but said he loved me. He was 33 in August when he send back all his and sons birthday and birth presents and cards all unopened along with a vile letter. I didn't bother to send my eldest grandson any birthday presents nor did they have anything for Christmas . I will not allow him to hurt me anymore than he has.

My husband didn't like his parents but loved them I hated the pair of them. For the way they treated him , me and my family. But we never abandoned them. No matter what they said or did we were there for them. After my father in-laws death and after my husband's death. I was always there for my mother in law right up until her death. Even when she said she had no son or grandchildren I never gave up on her. I promised my husband to look after her and did.

Smiles and all of you have made my life better. Because I can open up how I feel without being judge or crictised. Reading your posts has helped me cope as I am not alone. And whatever I feel is not wrong. You have all taught me that. ????

Smiles thank you for saying I have helped you. Whatever I did I am glad it helped but can't think what it could be. Hope your dog is improving daily. ???

Petit Fromage it is lovely to see you post such an inspiring
account of how everything is moving in your life. To have such positive results with your formerly E.D is great and like you say she had been trying to form links with you and re-establish a better and more open relationship on returning to the family which sounds like it is going from strength to strength. Personally for your family it sounds that everyone has contributed to the efforts of reconciliation and I believe
that maybe it was the right time for you all to come together. In the tapestry of lives ups and downs for whatever reason it may be sometimes an intervention comes from somewhere that we would never have believed and although you have the sadness of D.H. passing it is perhaps a little more bearable with DD and GC there to share some good times.

Nothing is forever that is so true and for you PetitFromage
I hope you and the family make new memories so the sad times of estrangement can fade.
I do my best not to give up hope on my D however she had no partner or husband living with her and so I had no third party putting up barriers. My D sadly turned from a loving caring happy young woman into a cold argumentative uncaring D which I partially put down to using substances
that actually messed her thought processes up. She functions better these days although the damage has been done and the road back to having the trust, respect, and belief in her I once had is possibly irreparable, but still I hope.

Good morning everybody. I have been popping in to read the thread from time to time, but haven't posted for a while, as there have been a few 'firsts' in terms of my DH's diagnosis and subsequent death, such as Valentine's Day etc, which have been absorbing a lot of emotional energy. However, I have been cheering you all on from the sidelines, as I think you are a very brave and inspirational group of friends, who helped me when I was at my lowest ebb.

Smiles has been so kind as to say above that my reconciliation helps to keep others hopeful, so I wanted to say that the relationship with my formerly ED continues to go from strength to strength, and that she is also rebuilding relationships with her sisters and friends. There is understandably a wariness still, but compared with how things were, even a few months ago, this is real progress.

Maybe some of it is to do with DH's death, but I like to believe that it would have happened anyway, as links were already being re-established, after a long period of coldness, emptiness and silence. DD is in touch every day and FaceTimes twice a week with the DGDs, who know me and come to 'chat' and wave. I am sure that DD is doing this because she wants to, not because she feels she should do. The conversations are open and loving and there is great telepathy. I don't check my 'phone that often but, when I do, it is surprising how often she is just in the process of messaging me or we cross - post.

I am not there yet and DD2 has a long way to go, because of trust issues. DD3 may never have the relationship which they would have had, because she is younger and DD1 was not there for her, missed her 18th, 21st etc. But at least there is some contact and DD2 has said that she is welcome to call to discuss DH. When I do speak to DD1, she seems to be dwelling on her childhood a lot - with happy memories, I am pleased to say - remembering things which I had forgotten. She has matured a lot and seems to be much more her own person again, instead of just parroting what SIL says.

I agree entirely with Madgran and others who say that a third party, specifically the AC's partner or spouse, can often be responsible for friction, although not always, of course. But the phrase 'sleeping with the enemy' comes to mind.

I still have deep seated hurt, and I know that I truly need to forgive, if not forget, in order to move forwards. Otherwise, I will be shooting myself in the foot, as well as playing into SIL's hands. I need to step back and take deep breaths, which I am doing, and it is becoming easier with time.

Nothing is forever, everything passes, but you are joined to your DC and your DGC, you share DNA, they are part of you, and that cannot change. And I genuinely believe that, deep down, they will know this. Just do what you are doing, live a full and joyful life, as much as you can, don't put your life on hold, and don't lose hope. I miss my DH dreadfully, but I believe that I will see him again one day and that we will be reunited. It's kind of the same thing, as well as different.

Sending big hugs to you all