Never dreamt this could happen

No difficult people are not exclusive to one generation, and I think you probably need a combination of both, to get to the point of being estranged.
Mostly people just try and rub along, but I think sometimes, expectations from our generation are way too high, our children have to go and make their own lives, and their new family will, and should always take priority.
We do not own our children, and God knows, I wouldn’t want my children visiting me out of a sense of duty.

"Difficult people are exclusive to one generation." Darn. That should say NOT exclusive to one generation. Unfortunate typo.

Sparkling, I agree with you. I asked gransnet to remove it before you posted as I thought it was stated a bit harshly.

I also agree there are daughters from hell too. Difficult people are exclusive to one generation. I'm just against the generalisations.

BTW, I did not estrange my MIL. I have never estranged any family members on either side. It's not my personal responsibility that we are estranged and it wasn't my choice. Someone even said to me once that it obviously bothered me more than my husband. That was a good wake up and very helpful. But I still feel judged by the DIL blaming narrative. I think I'd be a great DIL to someone who wanted to be friends.

Cafe, I think your comment about raising spineless sons judgemental, you don't know the facts, perhaps he has put his point over strongly, but risks his marriage and children if his partner has her mind set against it, then he would lose contact and end up with half of everything. I know there are mil from hell, there are daughters too. There are many reasons or excuses for lack of contact. I hardly know a family where there is no contact with a family member, say a brother or sister, are they all spineless. It takes two. People estranged feel bad enough not judgement and the support to carry on with some self respect. Believe me when you do see families getting on together it's hard not to feel sad.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Good advice dellygran

Witzend, those cases sound like something you have heard second hand. The DIL has a different way of relating to family so she's had an agenda to alienate her husband from his family. Okay then, if you say so.

I am both a MIL and my husband is estranged from his family. My MIL would give a similar narrative to what you've just given but I know how much effort I put forward. I lose no sleep at all over that situation. So far, as a MIL, I do the opposite of my MIL. It works so far.

I don’t have a problem with ‘the controlling DiL narrative’ because I have twice known it to happen. For some reason best known to herself, but to nobody else, the DiL has been determined from the start to hate her in-laws and to turn her formerly family-loving husband against them completely.

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen in reverse - a controlling SiL narrative - but I haven’t heard of any such cases.

Velaine, I am certainly no expert but have experienced the vagaries of family relationships over the years. Just concentrate on your life with your Oh - if son gets back in touch that's great - if not, then he is living his life the way he wants and you should do the same. The first few weeks are the worst but you can get through this ?

My observation over several years on GN has been that sometimes MiLs/Parents get "shutdown"/driven away by the nature/style of responses to their posts. Sometimes EAC's get shutdown/driven away by the nature/style of responses to their posts. And sometimes posters from both groups provide support, hard but kindly expressed messages, empathy, constructive criticism, understanding to each other.

Sometimes posters get driven away because they simply can't cope if they don't hear what they want to hear.

Sometimes how things are expressed cause upsets because of emotions on an emotional subject. Sometimes how things are expressed provide lessons to be learnt.

I believe there may well be EACs waiting in the wings; there may well be estranged parents/MILs doing the same, from what I have observed.

Yes there should be open and honest debate. Invalidation is felt when someone feels disbelieved, rightly or wrongly; how things are expressed makes a huge difference.

For a while now there have been threads started by EACs or ACs struggling and looking for advice regarding parents or inlaws; at the same time there have been threads started by EPs or parents who fear estrangement. Both types of thread have provided support, advice, comment without any poster getting upset, arguing, resulting in OPs thanking posters for their help.

It's a shame when that doesnt happen on a thread because the "sides" approach creeps in and arguments start.

Sparkling
Your dad sounds wonderful, and I think it’s what we should all say to our adult children, because after all , they are adults, they build a whole new life, and we are now on the edge, not at the centre.
We have had moments with one child, which could have caused a rift, but thanks to my husband’s never ending kindness and diplomacy, we have always pulled back.
But I think with our adult grandchildren, the ones we don’t live close to, we will gradually see less and less of, no falling out, just a gradual distancing, it doesn’t make me sad, if they are happy in life, that’s good enough for me.

Shirlb, I think your post is spot on. I don’t think a lot of our children generally do things for duty like we did. You don’t have to have had words they just find they are busy with their lives and their friends and we come way down the list. I know lots of families who love spending time together. There are of course many adults older and younger who are controlling and jealous of their partners loyalty and love to parents or to their child when they take a partner. I might as well be estranged for the contact I have and it hurts to know I don’t matter. My dad had the best idea, just ring me when you’ve a mind and enjoy your life, however I never went a week without spending time with him, he was so important to me and I loved him very much, he was however very busy and went on lots of mini breaks and loved walking in different areas, he was well read and happy with his own company.

"If a website is specifically focused on parents who have been estranged the stories will be from their perspective .."so many"! If a website is specifically focused on ACs who have estranged the stories will be from their perspective, .."so many!" If it is a general estrangement site like GN, stories will be mixed."

I agree. And my point was that when one is posting on a site that ends up being an echo chamber, it does no one any good. Which is why I believe an open discussion is important. That, it seems, is hard to have on GN because, I believe from my experience, that posting as an EAC is often shut down as invalidating.

In just this thread alone, several poster and long term members of GN said that they were blamed for something they did not do "evil DIL syndrome". That was met with "but it was true in my case and by posting your experience here it invalidated mine" This has happened before on the Estrangement boards. It then leads to EAC apologizing for their experience, thus invalidating their own experience. As witnessed in this very thread.

It appears to me, based also on previous threads I have read here, that the EP experience trumps the EAC experience. I fully believe that there are EAC waiting in the wings, afraid to talk openly because of experiences such as on this thread. This is my opinion based on my experience. Each poster will have a unique experience, just as each estrangement is a different experience. It is also my opinion that without open and honest discussion from BOTH sides, estrangement will not get better. It is also my opinion that is not anyone else's job to validate another person. Especially when such validation invalidates our own experience.

Who gets to decide what is being posted on threads in an open discussion forum? Who gets to decide what is helpful when talking about a broader estrangement issue, as I was? Heck, who gets to decide what broader topics are allowed to be discussed?

I think we SHOULD talk openly about the MIL blame, just as we should the DIL blame. Because NEITHER are cut and dry. In my post I said that I feel that it is mismatched expectations that cause many (NOT ALL) estrangements. That does not make either side "bad".

Maybe what we should be discussing is the fact that women are held to a higher standard and held more responsible for relationships, thus resulting in misplaced blame.

Wait.... Nevermind. I tried that earlier on this thread.

I beginning to think this is what happens when our children turn into adults ?they will move away find their partners and then live own lives! If lucky will remember us sometimes but don’t count on it??

Well yes, absolutely, if we have "given them wings" they will and should fly the nest, find partners and live their lives. None of which is the same as estrangement.

I think the Op has done a runner.

Spot on keepingquiet.

A good post Madgran.

Alexa : sorry to bother you just your post:

The line who are richer/better educated/whiter/more self confident/bigger house etc,

Could you just elaborate what you mean in that line by
whiter !!!!!! what are you referring to I am confused.

I beginning to think this is what happens when our children turn into adults ?they will move away find their partners and then live own lives! If lucky will remember us sometimes but don’t count on it??

* I too have a problem with so many stories whose cause is the controlling DIL. I also find it very interesting that it seems to be the DIL (and not SIL) so often when I read stories*

I suppose I could say the same about "so many stories whose cause is the awful MIL who doesn't know how to behave who can't let go, whose behaviour is shocking!" depending on where I am looking!

The point is that on any website where people are posting about estrangement a large number will be posting about the issues they are dealing with from their perspective, maybe looking for advice, empathy, understanding or different views/critical friends to help them sort out the pain they are in. If a website is
specifically focused on parents who have been estranged the stories will be from their perspective .."so many"! If a website is specifically focused on ACs who have estranged the stories will be from their perspective, .."so many!" If it is a general estrangement site like GN, stories will be mixed.

None are a valid "sample" in fact to be able to say so many raised children who are so easily led or so many dils are awful and controlling or so many parents or MILs are awful.

Equally in research on estrangement, yes there are common threads and patterns identified in many cases, not all. That can be research into estrangers who have estranged, as much as into those who have been estranged!

The nuances of every story is different, acknowledged in all good creditable research.

Thank you CafeAuLait, there are of course some extremely difficult and unpleasant parents in law out there, as there are unpleasant sons, daughters, and sons and daughters in law.

I don't doubt that what you're saying about your m.i.l. is true, we can only talk about our own experiences. All of our experiences are important and valid when it comes to talking about estrangement, and trying to help someone who finds them themselves in this position.

Thank you Sarnia. I'm glad you didn't "stick it out" and pulled away from an unhappy and unhealthy relationship regardless of how other family members may have judged you, and that it's been the right decision for you.

Being estranged from my mother, I can honestly say it was a decision made entirely by me. No one influenced me, no one coerced me, if anything my husband tried to prevent it.

I’m sure there are instances where a weak man is influenced by a controlling partner, but i think the process of becoming estranged, is quite personal, and quite intense, I can’t imagine too many people drift into it out of lethargy.

Having said that, my heart aches for Smiless, and others, who are genuinely perplexed by their adult children’s behaviour, I know I’m unusual, I know most people stick it out simply because they are family. I’m sure there’s a lot of criticism of me in the wider family, but I don’t really care, I’ve done the right thing for me.

Smileless2012, I'm very happy to acknowledge that my comments, or anyone's comments here, can't be extrapolated to every situation, such is the variety of circumstances. You at least do give your adult son responsibility for what he has not done in relating to you. I don't wish to add to your pain.

Meanwhile, it remains true that my MIL goes around telling everyone she comes in contact with that her evil DIL has made sure that her son has no contact with his family and friends and that her son would never do such things. The truth is this is 100% her son and herself because he does not make the effort to stay in touch. He's not a child I have to arrange play dates for, so he can manage his own social life. Or not.

Nor are you.

By telling certain posters that their viewpoint doesn't belong here, that is exactly what you are doing.

So is it that, here on GN, ONLY EP get to get validated? Because, essentially, that is what you are saying right now.

Yes I can see that you're not worried about invalidating the experiences of others freedomfromthepast.