SUPPORT for all living with estrangement

Smileless.......you are so right. If we could "do something" then we would. But in cases like this we are powerless. We can of course choose how we respond but that's where our autonomy finishes.

The decision to either estrange us or make life so difficult that we do the estranging is all down to our kids. They are the ones calling all the shots.

All we can do is decide how best to react and deal with the fall out.

For myself I have decided that whilst the ball is firmly in their court. I will not sit around moping. Neither will I allow myself to be picked up and then discarded at their whim. I am not a toy to be tossed aside.

I will be honest and say that what has happened has knocked the stuffing out of me. For the first few weeks I couldn't eat or sleep. I felt so ill with shock and grief I was barely functioning. But I've picked myself up and I'm now reclaiming my life and my future.

I am now at the stage that whilst I will be happy to maintain some level of contact with my son and grandchildren if at all possible I am not banking on it. I am planning ahead and getting myself in a position where I can live a rich and rewarding life. With or without them. I am not wasting any more time .

So it's get fit and healthy, finish the house, sell it and move forward into my new life. I only bought this house because it was big enough to accommodate family visits and I chose its location because of being close to family (about 20 mins by car) However, if they don't want me around and they only visit once in a blue moon then I won't need to factor all that in when I move. I can chose a property and location more to suited to my needs as a singleton. Downsize and free up my money and time.

Now that I've made my mind up I am actually looking forward to moving. Hopefully within the next 12 to 18 months.

Fantastic post, Whiff. So kind and helpful.

And well done you on such a terrific weight loss and fitness journey.

Yes I will Google to see what's available in my area, will visit different gyms and leisure centres.

I have done some simple stretches this Morning and went for a 20 minute walk. It doesn't sound much but it's a start. I will build up each day.

In the past I have always exercised at home as well as at a commercial gym. I do prefer the convenience of working out at home, In our old family home we converted our garage into a home gym which the whole family used. When I had to sell up I had to part with the gym equipment. Although I have kept some of the smaller items such as my yoga mat, Swiss ball, small hand weights and one of those resistance bands.

I have quite a few Yoga, pilates and tai chi DVDs. I love to dance too, (much nicer than jogging or pounding a treadmill and just as good for a cardio workout) I especially love my Bollywood and salsa exercise/dance DVDs.

Although I am more than happy to use what I have and exercise at home for now I do want to join a gym for 2 reasons......for the social side to meet new people and because I want to start swimming again.

I know this sounds pathetic but I really couldn't manage a 45 minute exercise session at the moment so the frugalista in me can't see the point of paying to attend an exercise class or join a gym. When I have built up to that sort of timescale then I will find a nice gym with a pool. ,

At the moment I'm in pretty bad shape but I'll get there. I'll put in the work over the next couple of months to get me to a stage where I can cope with a 45 minute gym or exercise session.

I'm giving myself until Christmas. ?

This afternoon I am going to prep the spare room ready to do some painting tomorrow. It was a dressing room/storage room. It is going to be a designated study, The builder dismantled and disposed of the spare wardrobes. I just need to freshen up the emulsion ready for my son to set up my desk on Saturday.

So even if I'm not doing full exercise workouts I shall still be busy, wielding a paint roller. I count that as a form of exercise too. ?. I also have some more shrubs and bulbs to plant over the next couple of weeks, paths to jet wash, weeds to tackle so again I won't be exactly idle.

It's all movement isn't it.

I have also made a start on cleaning out and reorganising my kitchen cupboards this Morning. Just doing a couple a day.

All part of the master plan.......a major declutter, refresh my house interior, get fit and healthy. Bit by bit.

DerbyshireLass exercising with a group is better. When I started to exercise I had got my weight down from over 19st to 15st 7lb. It was a age UK community fit club. It was a 12 week free programme we talked about nutrition then did the exercises for a hour. Because of my balance and others in the group had health problems the instructor was great. I did the arm exercises sitting down and leg ones holding on to the back of a chair. When they did the floor exercises she adapted them so I could do them on the chair.

When I moved here I joined a sit fit group . Exercises sitting down and holding on to the back of a chair. Closed because of Covid it was £5 for 45 mins. But I really missed doing them as a group.

I googled sit fit exercise class for over 60's beginning of June and found Sefton council had several groups. I emailed and explained my health problems and told me about the active ageing programme . It was GP referral . My GP was happy to do it. Had an interview at leisure centre to make sure the programme would be suitable. Emily who takes the class came to see me at home and put me through some exercises took medical history.

It's held every Wednesday afternoon in local church hall 12 weeks free then £2.50 for 45 mins class. At 63 I am the youngest in the class. The core aims are strength and stability. We do sit down and holding on to the chair exercises plus walking ones. Which I use my stick.

I have lost 7st over 4 years counting calories. The pears sequel is a good thread it's on the diet and exercise forum started by NanKate. It's like here lovely people who help and support eachother.

There may be groups like this in your area. Just Google. Most of the ones in my class are in their 70's and 80's.

Hope that helps. But remember to lose weight it's a marathon not a sprint took me decades to realise that. Was size 32 now 16. Still want to lose stone and half to get to 11st. Still be over weight for my height. But I will never have small thighs and my skin won't tighten up.

Definitely feel healthier losing the weight and exercising. Even wear trousers now and feel confident wearing them.

Hope this info has helped.

I think for EP's it's the shame that prevents us from talking about what's happened Allsorts. Thank goodness for this support thread; no shaming, no judgement just support and understanding.

Your poor friend DerbyshireLass. Any cancer diagnosis is frightening and when there are family issues, it makes it even more difficult to deal with. I hope that her son continues to visit with the GC. Perhaps her diagnosis has made him realise that we wont always be here and we need to make the most of the people we love while we can.

It's good that you are putting your physical and emotional well being first. If they don't care, they don't care and what is the point of making ourselves ill over their loss, making ourselves emotionally and physically weakened when we know, that whatever we may have to face as we get older, they're not going to be around to care.

Do some research on gyms in your area. A good one will take you as you are and help you to gradually build up your fitness. Exercising with trained people around you will enable you to achieve your goals in a safe and controlled environment.

Just be careful exercising at home. Make sure your warm up with for example a walk on the spot, swinging your arms and gradually build this up by lifting your knees higher as you 'walk'. Remember to do some gentle stretching exercises when you've finished.

I wonder if your son, if any of our EAC ever think about the day that will surely come, when we've died and it really is too late Whiff.

I guess some of them never do. A few years ago when our DS was talking about our estrangement from his brother, he was urging me 'to do something'. I told him there was nothing I could do. He said 'you do realise don't you mum that you'll take this to the grave' so I told him again, that there was nothing I can do and yes, I realised that but I'd be dead and it's his brother who'll have to live with it; I wont have too anymore.

What a lovely post Whiff. You are so right, our health is everything isn't it. I am glad you are feeling better. Good that your daughter is better too. You must be relieved. We hate seeing our children ill.

This episode has been my wake up call. I wrecked my health looking after my husband and to be accused of feigning illness is just too much.

I was thinking of joining a gym but, crazy as it sounds, I don't think I'm fit enough. Instead I am going to embark on an exercise programme at home.....with a goal in mind to join a gym in a few months time.

I need to lose a little weight, just a couple of stones, so nothing too drastic but my first priority is to get my pain levels down, become more flexible and improve my strength and stamina.

Actually yesterday's rest did me good, pain levels are easier today. Feel much better today.

The weather has taken a nose dive. I am so glad I pushed myself and got all the outside jobs done before the weather broke. I probably overdid things a bit and didn't help myself pain wise but I am glad I went the extra mile. I can pace myself now - both with the inside jobs and my exercise goals.

I tend to forget I'm 70 And not 30 any more. I need to remember the tortoise and the hare. ?.

DerbyshireLass I hope you are feeling better today. Sorry to hear about your friend. With that grade she should be fine after treatment. But it's still very frightening to get the diagnosis.

When my husband was diagnosed with cancer we where told there are 5 grades. 1 and 2 after treatment you will be fine. 3 50/50 chance of living 5 years and 4 and 5 you won't live 5 years this was back in 2001. In those days 1 in 3 people got cancer nowadays it's 1 in 2.
I think that is down to the fact of better screening and testing also people have more information.

I have said before babies don't come with instructions. I well remember coming home with our daughter from hospital and my husband looked at me and said what do we do.

Parents make mistakes we are human. What our adult children forget is as parents they will do to bringing up their children. They seem to think they are perfect . No such thing as perfect anyway perfect is boring.

By the sound of it your health problems are long standing so your son knows about how ill you can be at times .

My son knew I was waiting for a bubble echo on my heart. As the echo found a problem. Shows how much he cares. And yet he used to be so caring. He has taken me as far as London to see a neurologist plus other visits closer to home. He always came in with me as he could give information about how it effects me from his prospective. He has taken me to A&E and spent hours with me.

How he turned from such a loving and caring son to the one who wrote the email and letter I will never understand.

But he has made his choice. But he should have told me what he was going to do on my birthday. Face to face. We have always been an open family . No subject was taboo.

Like I have said before I am glad we have zero contact. I would hate going through what some here are. Some adult children are treating their parents as if they are a punching bag with no feelings. How would they like it if their children did it to them? And some of their children will they just don't realise it yet. What's the old saying you reap what you sow.

Health is so important and stress makes any illness so much worse. I am doing everything I can to keep well. Had blood test at GPs yesterday got 2 hospital visits next week. Hopefully they will be pleased with me at AF clinic then only have to go once a month. Hopefully hear when my MRI is soon.

My daughter is back to her well self again glad to say. I need to stay as well as possible for her sake . At least with Covid rules at hospitals when she has taken me to A&E or to some appointments she can't stay. Pre Covid she spent hours staying with me when my seizures where out of control. Seeing the look of worry on your child's face is heartbreaking . My son used to have the same look.

If money brought health and happiness only poor unhappy people would get ill. But it's just the luck of the draw.

Hope all going through abuse from their children fine peace soon. As you deserve that peace for your healths sake .

As per usual I ramble on. ? . Off to exercise class this afternoon which I love. We have fun. But Emily doesn't let us get away with anything which I like. As doing the exercises correctly helps us .

Take care all. ?

My friend came to see my earlier. She is going through something similar with her DIL. Her son visits with the children without the DIL.

My friend was diagnosed with breast cancer recently. Luckily Stage 0 so hopefully there is a good prognosis. She says her son has been visibly shocked.

This is something I think about.

What happens if I get really sick, will my son have to live with regret. I wouldn't like to be him and have something like an estrangement on my conscience.

In all of this I can put my hand on my heart and say that yes maybe I have made mistakes but I have done my level best to be a good mother and grandmother.

Since 2006 I have had to be both mother and father. Not easy to be a good parent whilst caring for a paraplegic husband. None of us is perfect, we are all human and humans make mistakes.

DIL just hasn't got a clue. She says she feels "broken".

What is it with our AC. I have heard many of them use this expression over the most trivial of setbacks. As my mum used to say "they don't know they are born". My friend said today what I really should say to DIL is "get over yourself, love". ?

I am so conscious now of the passage of time. It races by and I don't want to waste any more of my precious time on people who have no regard for me.

I will agree to see my son on Saturday but I swear if he starts any nonsense he will get short shrift. And if Madam tries to put a spanner in the works or tries to spoil the visit or derail it she will feel my wrath.

Because quite honestly I'm done. I can understand exactly why you all feel you would prefer to be estranged rather than put up with ongoing cruelty and hatred. I am starting to feel the same way.

I am experiencing the most awful fibro flare up today. I am currently in bed resting, just riding it out.

As I said to my friend today........the situation has been such a wake up call.......especially as DIL has accused me of faking illness. If she could see me this afternoon, wincing with pain every time I move.

Again probably my fault because I have never let them see me like this, nor have I ever let see me when my IBS runs riot. They only get to see me on my good days.

I am well aware that both my fibro and IBS are exacerbated by stress so I will probably end up having to estrange them because quite honestly I have had enough. I cannot and will not take any more abuse. I need to get well.

My son doesn't know it but his proposed visit will be his big test. If he fails it then I will not hesitate to just cut my losses.

Yes Smileless, it is embarrassing and hurtful to be treated badly by your own children whom you would give your life for. I have found out through life, that when anyone shows you such disregard, that will never change. It’s not in the majority of us to be so brutal. We make excuses for them as we cannot believe the unthinkable has happened. Would we treat anyone as we have been treated? I don’t want to be contacted again, it’s too late, they have shown their true colours, there’s no likelihood of a miracle.

I hope you told your d.i.l. all of the things you put in your post yesterday DerbyshireLass. Honestly, what a bloody cheekif it wasn't so awful it would be funny wouldn't it.

Funny how so many EAC and/or their partners start bleating when the parent/GP in question stops jumping through hoops and doing everything in their power to accommodate them.

Fingers crossed that your son does visit with the GC, that would be great wouldn't it, providing of course the possibility isn't used for more mind games but that said, you have a knowledgeable take on what you're dealing with and also a great attitude. Respect.

D.E.E.P. is a simple yet effective away of creating a defensive wall around yourself. Not engaging is a no brainer when you've been estranged but minimising and controlling engagement is much harder when there's still something of the relationship left to salvage.

I've often thought it's better to have been estranged then have to put up with the crap that some parents are subjected too Whiff. It's like pulling a plaster off quickly rather than taking your time and drawing out the painful process.

You're so like me; "He knows where I am if he wants to get in touch. But he will have to face me. But I don't see that happening." That's how it is for me and TBH I wouldn't want him to contact me now and have felt that way for some time.

It is embarrassing isn't it Allsorts to know that the child we raised and loved could have turned out the way they have.

Don't be so hard on yourself. You'd lost your H and even without that, the way you've been treated beggars belief. It's not always to see what's right in front of us, especially when it concerns the child we love and thought we knew.

Back home now. Had a lovely 10 days away and am looking forward to going back to our lodge in just under 2 weeks for a fortnight. Maybe our last trip this year, or we may go again in November decisions, decisions.

Good Mornjng.

Thank you both for your wise words and counsel.

I too am not fond of what I call psychobabble in general but I don't mind terms like firewall and grey rock.....I see them just as a sort of shorthand to describe the techniques they represent.

I am trying to find ways of "managing" the situation rather than simply cutting them out of my life. I would like to try and maintain contact with my son and grandchildren if at all possible so I'm willing to give some of the suggested techniques a go. If they don't work then so be it. At least I will have tried.

I know I can live without my son and grandchildren but if possible I would prefer them to be in my life. Will just have to see how things pan out.

And you are both right, I should have been firmer and not let things escalate the way they have but I didn't. I realise that I should have drawn a line I have earlier.

Hey ho, , we live and learn. I am doing it now. Setting boundaries and being more protective of myself.

I'm doing ok. I have done what I set out to do, with all the outside work. The house and garden are looking good and now I'm ready to work on myself. I have booked a tour with a gym tomorrow. My next goal is to get fit, strong and healthy. I have decluttered my wardrobe, had my hair cut and yesterday had a massage. I'm upping the self care and taking better care of me.

I'm still in a lot of pain with my fibro but at least my tummy problems have eased off and my digestive system has settled down again. I am eating healthily, getting plenty of sleep and rest.

I feel a lot better than I did 6 weeks ago. I will get there, I will build a new life. It will just take time, patience and some effort on my part. I will move forward and just put the whole grisly business behind me now.

Like you Allsorts I don't know why people behave like this, maybe it's because they can get away with it.. In my case it's because I let it happen. I enabled her. I was vulnerable. Like you I had lost my husband and was scared of losing anything else. Not any more. I am no longer scared and vulnerable. I have finally found my voice.

If I lose my son and grandchildren ..........well life will still go on.

I to dislike all these weird names, grey rocking, fire walling. Say it like it is. The best way to handle cruel behaviour is don’t allow it, they choose to estrange, not you, they play mind games but they can’t do that if you don’t participate. If you have always had a good relationship, this behaviour creeps in gradually, so you question yourself and try to fix what’s wrong. In tge end you hardly know which way up you are, if I had my time back again, I would call tge behaviour out and if threatened with not seeing the gc, I would say that’s your decision not mine. I was always a parent that when asked something, if I said no, it meant that boundaries were established. Gradually after the death of my husband, the bullying as I now know it was, started. I needed them in my life I had lost enough, but I should have faced it, saved myself years of heartbreak instead of perhaps one, the end results the same, no contact.
I will never know why people do this, my parents are dead but I know they were proud of me and love me, no silly mild games or bad behaviour. I live my d but am ashamed of her behaviour.

Reading your post DerbyshireLass makes me very glad my son wanted zero contact and that's what he has got.

I couldn't put up with what you are. Because of zero contact it's helped me come to terms with life without my son and 3 grandson's. I miss them very much but I prefer it this way.

I couldn't put up with constant haressment and abuse you and others are having to deal with. That email and letter was enough for me.

As I have said before my husband made me promise to live the best life I can and I do. It doesn't include my son and grandson's but that's not my choice but his.

You need to decide what you want . Is it worth all this haressment from your daughter in law. If she contacts you again you could consider not answering. Do you have caller ID on your phone?

You have a son ,daughter in law and grandchildren who love and care for you. It must be hurting them to see you under constant attack. You may thing you can hide how you feel but they know.

I know my daughter knows how much my son and daughter in law have hurt me. She has washed her hands of her brother. She never got on with my daughter in law . They never liked eachother from when they meet .

I always thought how lucky I am that both my children found their other halves at a young age . My daughter and son in law have been together since they were 20 now both 38 and my son and daughter in law since they were 17 now both 34.

I hate all these counsellor speak words. Grey rock, narcissistic personality etc. It boils down to good and bad behaviour it's that simple putting fancy words on things doesn't alter that fact. And trying to understand why our adult children do things doesn't make it hurt any less. So I don't bother. Life is to short for what if's. I don't hate either my son or daughter in law don't want it nor need it in my life. But still love my son and grandson's. But the love I feel for my son is for the man I know not the one who wrote that email and letter. I don't know that son. That son was cruel and cowardly. The son I love was never that.

I have to much good in my life and will not dwell on the bad. It's not easy and I have a tidal wave of loss every now and then. So I have a cry and get it over with.

I will not let what my son has done alter who I am. I like me and seems other people do to. I have family and friends who love and care for my who I love and care for. They are my priority. They are the reason I am happy and enjoy my life.

Like Smiles has said in previous posts you have to reach a point you say enough and let go . It's so hard to do especially if you are on your own without the love of your life. But you have to find peace.

I know I have said the same things before but it's still true. I had to make a new present and future without my husband and I have had to do the same without my son and grandson's.

He knows where I am if he wants to get in touch. But he will have to face me. But I don't see that happening. So I just get on with my life.

All going through estrangement deserve to be happy and find peace and live the life we want. ?

Ashbourne is just a short drive from me.....beautiful market town and of course the Gateway to the Peak. Derby city centre is looking a bit forlorn these days, but the surrounding countryside is as beautiful as ever.

Had a text from DIL this mornjng, remonstrating with me for unfollowing her on Instagram. (Actually I have been weeding out most of my social media, turning off alerts etc). Shes taken umbrage.

Well she did ask for no contact. That's exactly what I have given her, but she's still not happy. Just goes to show, you really can't win with a narc can you. ??. Damned if you do and damned if you don't,

She also accused me of not enquiring after my son or the grandchildren and then lectured me about only having "one family".

Er no......I do have another son and DIL.....who both happen to love me and treat me with courtesy, respect and real affection. I had to put DS2 and DIL on the back burner all through the pandemic whilst DIL was pregnant so I could form a bubble with them to help with childcare etc. They fully understood and never once complained. And this is the thanks we get.

You just couldn't make it up could you. Like a spoilt toddler screaming "me, me, me". I don't think she knows what she wants. But I'm not turning my back on my second son.....which is of course exactly what Madam wants, she wants to destroy our family.

Well I'm not doing it.......she will not make me discard my second son in order to get back into her good books so I can see my eldest son and grandchildren. She still hasn't twigged yet that I will not succumb to emotional blackmail. She is trying to make me feel guilty by saying I am not interested in my eldest son and the grandchildren. Well it won't wash.

It really is quite sad and pathetic, she is so jealous, possessive and needy. She has this desperate need to be Top Dog. She wants to be feted, admired and adored, her ego constantly stroked. But whatever you do, it's not enough.

Now that I have given her what she asked for......no contact.....she can't stand it, she is still miserable, still trying to pick fights. She really is to be pitied.

It's finally stopped raining, although much cooler. Going to have a quick hour in the garden, I've got some shrubs to plant. At least the Earth will be nice and soft after all the rain.

Builder has finished all the outside jobs now and I've finished all the painting. It's all looking much better. Still need to paint the doors but they can wait until next spring.

Generally feeling much better, although I have to confess my stomach did start doing its usual somersaults when I saw she had sent me a text. I really can't be doing with the stress so I kept my reply short and sweet. Nothing contentious but I'm sure she will find something to feel aggrieved about. I'm past caring. As our kids would say.......Not my circus, not my monkey.

I came across this the other day......a means of coping with the narcs in your life.

D.E.E.P.

Do not.

Defend
Explain
Engage
Personalise.

It's described as part of the process of maintaining a "Firewall" to protect from the narcs machinations - pretty much like the firewall you have on your computer.

Basically you dont feed them any information which they can weaponise and use against you. Any interactions, whether face to face or by other methods of communication are kept on a superficial level. Do not give away your feelings, your opinions, your plans.

It's not as extreme as grey rocking in that you do engage in light bland conversation. Maintaining a firewall has the potential to ensure that any unavoidable encounters with the narc (work, social engagements, family gatherings) can at least be kept civil and you can avoid igniting their rage.

Firewalling might not be suitable when events have escalated to complete estrangement but it might be a useful tool in trying to keep channels open and maintaining some form of contact, either to avoid full estrangement or as part of a reconciliation process.

DIL has said my son has said he wants to visit with the children so it doesn't look like I have been completely cast into the darkness.......yet. We shall see.

Tbh I am sceptical that it will work out, I can't see her "allowing" him many visits. I am pretty sure she will find a way of stopping them at some point or perhaps making them difficult. There will likely be last minute cancellations, changes of plans so that she can maintain control.

She will of course expect me to roll over and take her nonsense without a murmur. Well that won't happen.......never again will I pander to her whims and fancies. I'm not playing any more. ?.

But perhaps maintaining a firewall might enable me to keep things civil so I get to occasionally see my son and his children. I'll give it a go.

Gawd how I hate these games. All I want is a peaceful and stress free retirement. Surely it's not too much to ask for after a lifetime of hard work. ??.

I wonder what part of Derbyshire you are Derbyshire Lass. Done a lot of walking there, using Ashbourne as a base.Taking bikes up Tissington Trail. Really missed it last few years. It’s easy to get your mind sorted in such a beautiful landscape.

Hope your daughter is soon well Whiff. Good job you did the garden yesterday, the weather has truly changed. Lashing down with rain here for hours.When you garden you see the benefit of it for a long time, unlike housework, which is as bad next day. I look out at all the shrubs I cut down and feel very pleased with myself. There is however still loads to do but I’ve broken the back of it, rest can be done gradually.

If you want to sob your heart out watch a film on BBC iPlayer called A Monster Calls. I am a sodden mess now. But it was a lovely film.

I was going to see Grayson Perry's art club exhibition in Manchester today but my daughter is ill. She has re booked the tickets for next month. She sounded awful. Then my grandson got on the phone so I said to look after mommy and make her go back to bed and be a good boy for daddy and help.with his brother. My daughter text lunch time and said he followed what nannie said and made her go straight to bed.

It was my first proper phone conversation with him. He is growing so quickly.

Went into the garden for a couple of hours and planted my bulbs and cut a lot of dying plants down.

Now need a lovely hot chocolate .

Spot on Whiff.

My view now is give our EAC what they want and hope that it makes them happy. With the proviso that they should be careful what they wish for........

After those horrific abusive texts I stood up to my DIL.

I called her out, told her that her bullying abusive behaviour towards me was unacceptable and I wouldn't tolerate it. I also told her that her attempts to use emotional blackmail wouldn't work (she tried three times and each time I called her bluff).

Since then she has backed down and gone no contact. She knows that I have rumbled her and that she won't get anywhere with her threats. Therefore I am of no further use to her now so she leaves me alone. She has what wants. She has broken up our family and my son is isolated and alone, with only her and his two small children. There's just the four of them, no long term friends and no family to help and support them, I hope she is finally happy now.

Yes, I probably did cut off my nose to spite my face because after all she is the gatekeeper to my son and my grandchildren. She thinks she is punishing me now, that she can use the children as leverage. She probably thinks I will cave at some point and beg her to be allowed to see them. If she believes that then she is living in cuckoo land.

I think my son knows me a little better and he realises that I can only be pushed so far and that once I have been crossed that's it, there's no going back. I don't bear grudges but I won't allow myself to be repeatedly used, abused and humiliated. And that there has to be a cut off point.

So far he has tried to tiptoe round her but without cutting me out completely......a difficult tightrope for him to walk which is why I'm being patient with him. I do believe that despite her brainwashing he still has genuine regard for me. (So far).

We shall see......it remains to be seen how much longer he can hold out,

Like Whiff I have taken the view that if they really want zero contact then that's is what they will get. At the moment I haven't blocked DIL from my phone but I would not hesitate to do so if she starts with the abusive texts again.

At the moment I do believe that my son does still want me in his life but he just doesn't know how to square the circle.

However, if he changes his mind and decides he wants me out then I will be gone, without a backward glance, no forwarding address when I move, they will not be informed when I get sick or die, and there will be no legacy in my Will. It will be as if I never existed.

Whiff you are right, we really do need concentrate on us now. Time to put on our own oxygen masks first.

Thank you for your wise words. Of course everything you say is true, I can block on my mobile but not home phone but it is a start. I don’t think for one minute it’s anything else but to break me. She must believes to be true the lies she tells. ,,
Had a major attack on the garden today, been having the lawns cut but the borders had overgrown so much. There’s nothing like getting involved in a physical task to focus the mind, you can’t really thing of other than the task in hand. Also got quite excited about booking a holiday, I won’t go until next year but it will be more than two years since I’ve had a break so can justify booking one.
Thank you once again for being there.

Allsorts what has helped me come to terms with my son not wanting me is zero contact. He wanted it so his has it. Because of that it's made it easier for me to get on with my life.

I couldn't cope if I had to put up with the harassment you and others have gone through. I know what my daughter would say block him if he was doing the same thing.

Smiles as usual is full of wise words and DerbyshireLass. It will be hard for you to do but you need to live a peaceful life. And by blocking her you will get that peace.

Technology is great but it gives our children the cruel and cowardly way out. It takes a courage to face your problems and sorry to say our children seem to lack it.

Allsorts you are stronger than you think. You deserve a happy peaceful life. Doing all the things you want to do. Not worrying everytime you get a text,email or phone call that it's another load of abuse from your daughter.

Put yourself first your wants and needs. And concentrate on the people in your life you love and care for and who love and care for you. And most importantly love yourself.

It not easier but you need to be happy. I think happiness is an under rated. But it's an important emotion.

Take care of yourself ?

I have been mega busy. The builder has been here all week. I'm shattered and the house is a tip. ??. Never mind I'll get it put back to rights over the next few weeks.

I am concentrating on the garden and outside jobs for now, making the most of the last few weeks of good weather.

The house can wait its turn. ?

Good Morning Everyone

I had no wifi for a while, sorted now,

Allsorts....I read your post with mounting horror and sadness. I agree with Smileless. I think your best bet would be to block your daughter. I know it goes against the grain and we like to keep channels open but what she is doing is beyond cruel. You are not getting chance to heal.

Why does she do it, when she purports to be happy. Who can say, but my guess is she is not as happy as she makes out. Why else would she keep coming back to taunt you. But for your sake I think you need to put up some boundaries.

Block her, Let her go just as long as she has your address so she can either write to you or visit. Ok not as quick or as easy as text or email but maybe that's what you need - to keep a little distance without completely shutting down all channels of communication or possibility of contact.

When they are feeling rage, it is only too easy for them just to fire off a text or an email full of vitriol which only hurts you all over again. Maybe it encourages them to be keyboard warriors, they can say what they want without fear of any comeback.

Much harder to do it face to face. That takes guts, something which many of our EAC seem to lack. Sorry I know that's a bit blunt, but it is what I have come believe. They don't seem to have the courage of their convictions so they hide behind a screen. They use technology as a weapon.

I agree with Smileless - in many cases, our EACs are using us as scapegoats. It seems rather than face up to life's twists and turns, the bumps in the road and the difficulties they encounter they need to find someone to blame rather than accept responsibility.

They don't seem able to shoulder the normal burdens and set backs of everyday life. They want it to be all rainbows and unicorns. When they hit an obstacle or some kind of downturn, instead of rolling up their sleeves and finding a way out they play the blame game. And the most obvious choice is blame the parents.

Much easier to cast blame than be a fully fledged adult and facing up to life as a grown up.

Onwards......I am so glad your DIL is doing her level best to keep the channels of communication open, probably at no small risk to herself. She sounds like a very strong woman. Hopefully one day your son will realise what a treasure he has, hopefully he will wake up and realise he has been brainwashed and will come back to his family.

All we can do is live in hope for better days, but not put our lives in hold whilst we wait. A reconciliation may never happen so we need to live the best lives we can. We owe ourselves that much. Life is too precious a gift to be squandered.

I am 70 now. I refuse to mope or wallow in self pity. I am not going to waste what should be my golden years pining for my lost son and grandchildren. It's been 7 weeks now. I know that's not long in the grand scheme of things but realistically how long have I got. I may be lucky and have 30 years left on this planet, I may have 30 months or even less. I

All I know Is that I can't afford to waste the time I have left. I have grieved for my husband and lived in the shadows for 15 years now. That's quite long enough. I am not going to grieve over my son and DIL. If they don't want me in their lives then so be it. I will concentrate on the people who do want me.

Allsorts if it's possible to do so, maybe you should consider blocking her so she's no longer able to send awful messages.

If she's happy in her life, then why doesn't she just get on with it?

One thing that has stood out to me over the years is the level of anger and bitterness I've seen from many EAC and it's something I've never understood.

What ever the reason(s) may be, they have taken the decision to estrange their parents so why are some simply not getting on with the life they have chosen?

We who have been estranged make the most of what we have and learn to live with the pain of losing an AC this way, so why can't they?

Perhaps it's because they're not happy. Maybe despite their best efforts to blame us for all that was and is wrong with their lives, they know deep down inside that we were and are not to blame.

DS said some time ago that he simply couldn't talk to his brother about our estrangement because he got very angry and yet, they talk about their childhood and laugh over shared memories.

It takes time Allsorts and the amount of time it takes is different for each and everyone of us. This isn't something you can control. You don't wake up one morning and think 'today's the day I'm going to stop thinking about and crying over my AC'; it happens gradually.

It was so gradual for me that one day I realised that I hadn't thought about our ES for days!! Then it was weeks!! Then it was months!!

Please give some thought to blocking her. You could contact her explaining your decision ie that you don't want to be on the receiving end of her bitterness and anger. That is what I would do FWIW.

You need to take care of yourself. Give yourself the best chance to let go, move on and rebuild your life and our D being able to send you "awful messages" will hold you back.

Don't let her. She's made her decision so let her get on with it and make sure you do what you have too to get on with your own life x

I Admire Whiff and Smileless for their new lives, they were treated appallingly and have done exactly the right thing. Wish I could not hanker after that girl I had, she sent me awful messages lately, I don’t reply or contact her in any way, so why she does it I don’t know. She says how happy she is without me in her life and that I’m an evil person, she thinks I am mentally ill. What I have ever done to make her dislike me I don’t know. I find it so hard, months go by and then a message, stating all my faults.

My husband dieing broke me. So what my son has done pales in comparison to my husband dieing. Watching the one person in the whole world who you love more than life itself. The only person who knows you inside and out change from an active vibrant man who was on the go all the time to a shell of the man he was and living everyday in agony. And dieing unable to breathe haunts me to this day But my love for him hasn't dimmed.

My son was so like his dad even in looks. But not anymore. His dad would never do what he has. As I have said his parents where nightmares but we never gave up on them.

Perhaps instead of facing what is really going on in their lives they blame us parents as it's easier than admit they are having problems.

I have no idea how he can do what he has he was never a quitter. It's the way he did it and the lies I will never understand. But he has made his choice I hope it's made him happy .

I agree with Whiff Onward your d.i.l. must be a strong and very caring person to be able to provide a stable environment for the children, despite your son's mental health problems.

I've never had any guilt regarding our estrangement but did feel guilty when I stopped missing him as much as I did, and when I stopped thinking about him as much.

You think it shouldn't be happening, that you should spend the rest of your life in grief and pain, after all this is your child but they're no longer the child they once were are they.