Understanding estrangement

I too feel rather ill. But I will take care, it will pass.

As you say it's done now and despite feeling ill I do actually feel an enormous sense of relief.

She has sent me yet another text, this time full of self righteous indignation, twisting everything again and trying to justify what she has done.

She has asked me to "reflect for a while". She obviously thinks all she needs to do is give me a few weeks to cool down and then she can waltz back into my life as if nothing had happened.

It's actually amusing because everything she is doing is exactly the sort of tactics my father used to employ. So predictable, so transparent.

As a child I had no choice but to acquiesce to my fathers demands but now I am an adult I am free of such constraints. I have no intention of allowing her back into my life because I know she will never change. I will never be able to trust her. All would be quiet for few weeks and then it would start all over again.

I am not prepared to accept an endless cycle of betrayals, threats and periods of NC. So I am going to cut my losses now.

Of course she will paint me as the bad one ......

As for my son and the children, well I will just have to wait and see what transpires.

I'm so sorry it's happened but at least it's done. I know l felt ill for days afterwards so do look after yourself. I went out to catch a bus and just felt sick and went home and lay down. Take care

Derbyshirelass
Sorry to hear that the worst has happened.
But I feel relief for you, sad though it is, she cannot touch you any longer.
Your son may in time realise his mistake, but it may take a long time.
Feeling very sad for you, but am sure, for the moment, it’s for the best.

So sorry Derbyshire, l cross posted with you

Derbyshire, you write---- l will be happy enough to walk away provided l know my son still holds me in high esteem and she hasn't been able to poison him against his family.
I'm afraid to say that l think you may have to be prepared for it not to work out like that. I do hope it does for you but l just could not believe it when my son, who l thought so calm and thoughtful, started to believe things my DIL was accusing me of.
I too had texts to and from her but somehow that didn't help at all. Different meanings were construed and l had apparently been trying to split them up from the beginning. And l had thought we were friends!
I had said to my daughter that l thought things were going wrong and she said ^ Oh he'll never believe you were like that, because he knows you aren't.
They lived away from us and our estrangement was done by texts. I asked him to phone or for them both to come and see if we could sort it out. I think he would have come but she stopped it.
Somehow she got ideas into his head and convinced him to believe them l think. I would not have thought it possible. He said that l had changed.
Our estrangement was very quick, though with hindsight there were things l should have picked up on.
But l had never known or thought about estrangement.
At least you are wiser than l was and l do hope your son is not changed in the way mine was, but when l read those words you wrote l felt l had to warn you just in case. I am so sorry this is happening to you, l am still heartbroken after 2 years but read these threads and have found them comforting.

Allsorts, I think once they have used up and destroyed one victim, they go on to the next. Often they already have the next one in their sights.

Well as predicted, the axe has probably fallen. If fact I was probably the one who wielded it.

DIL sent me the rudest, most abusive text. It had to be the vilest thing I have ever had the misfortune to read. I won't bore you all, suffice it to say she said the most awful things. She tried emotional blackmail again and was throughly abusive.

I have called her out. I have told her I won't be bullied, abused or allow myself to be blackmailed. I said I wouldn't tolerate her behaviour any more and that if she wanted to estrange me I won't stand in her way. I told her to stop harassing me with abusive calls and texts.

I then wrote to my son and explained what has happened (the first time I have ever said a word to him). I told him I don't expect him to take my side, because his first duty is to his wife and family but that I will always love him. His response was predictably terse. He doesn't see what she is doing, he seems to think it's 50/50, that I am equally to blame. Grossly unfair but pretty much what I expected. Her poison has done its job.

At first I was dreadfully upset, but now I'm just furious. But that's it. I'm done.

If my son wishes to see me he can, if he wishes to bring the children he can but I will not have that woman in my home ever again. If my son decides not to see me then so be it. I'm prepared to pay the price to be rid of her.

There comes a time when you just have to draw a line in the sand.

The fat lady has sung and it's time to get on with my life.

Actually I'm just glad it's over. The actual waiting for it to happen was the worst bit. It's a relief. A weight has been lifted from my shoulders.

Free at last.

I wonder if a narcissists always has to have a victim, when mil goes I bet there is another unsuspecting person lined up, can you see them just being controlling with one person?

Thanks Onward and Upward.....

Yes, alas I have got narcissists pegged. My father was a classic nark, he taught me more than I ever wanted to know about narcissistic behaviour.

I came upon a great quote the other day, can't remember it word for word. Something along the lines of good experiences bring us happiness, bad experiences teach us lessons.

I think if we can learn lessons from bad experiences we can use that knowledge to grow and to become stronger and more resilient.

When narcs win, it is usually a hollow victory. They don't enjoy their new power for long because they are never satisfied. They are always want more. They think they have come out on top. Maybe they do for a little while but they usually end up sad, lonely and very bitter people.

Karma gets them in the end.

Hello Smileless.

Thank you for such a lovely post.

I cannot tell a lie, I'm in floods of tears today, partly because of what's happening with my DIL but also I think, because it will be the anniversary of my husbands death this week.

I don't suppose she has even considered that because as we know it's all about them isn't, no one allowed else is allowed to have feelings. My grief and sadness is nothing to her. She couldn't have timed her last episode better if she tried.

Hey ho. Feeling sorry for myself isn't going to help. Time to take some positive action.

I have been looking online to try and find some classes I could join in the autumn to get out and meet people and try and build a new life, I think I'll start with some gentle exercise classes, probably pilates or yoga. I do try and do a bit at home but I think it would be beneficial to get out the house and join a class, especially next winter.

I do feel low and fragile today. I'm going to go for a little walk in a few minutes, if it stops raining. ?. Maybe a bit of fresh air might help.

At least the weather forecast is better for next week so I'm going to make a point of getting out each day, even if it's just a mooch round the shops. Sitting at home moping will only drag me down even further.

I also think that if I can demonstrate that I am out there being busy and building a new life it will give her a jolt. She has no female friends (she falls out with everybody, friends, neighbours, work colleagues) and in the past has wanted me to join her for lunch. I certainly won't be doing that any more because guess who usually ends up paying... Anyway I shall be too busy gadding about. ?. That might make her stop and think twice.

On Friday when I went round I ended up paying for a takeaway. I don't mind, that's not an issue, but when you get a hateful text two hours later telling you she doesn't want you around ....well it's a bit much isn't it.

Oh yes, enjoy my generousity why don't you and then kick me in the teeth. What a delightful charmer.

In the past she was much more covert, careful to try and hide her moves and content herself with the usual narcissistic controlling behaviour and ploys, always arriving late, cancelling or changing arrangements at the last minute, just making everyone dance to her tune to bolster her ego. Classic nark stuff.

But suddenly she has become much more open and blatant and yet I don't think she is savvy enough to realise though that I'm onto her. She doesn't know that I have had all those years of experience with my narcissistic father to learn how they operate so I know the rules of engagement.

Not a nice way to think I know, thinking of it in military terms but in reality that's what it is, a war of attrition and like all battles forewarned is forearmed. When the axe falls I won't be taken by surprise. If I can stay calm and focussed when it happens I might be able to avoid some of the worst fall out.

I certainly won't grovel and beg to be allowed in her circle in order to hang onto my son and grandchildren. That will probably enrage her even more, because a cool calm response from me won't feed her ego and need for high drama. It might just enable my son to remain neutral though and not be forced into being piggy in the middle. Although at some point he will be forced to do her bidding or lose his children. I am under no illusions there.

Hopefully when estrangement happens I will have new interests and hobbies to help me get through it. I do have good RL friends who will help support me. None of them know what's been going on, I have kept it to myself. My second son knows a little but again I have shielded him. He will be shocked but not surprised. He's had her measure from day one, long before I realised what she was. Funny that, but she did a charm offensive on us at first - typical narc love bombing. He just saw through it quicker than I did.

Right I'm off to stretch my legs and blow away the cobwebs, still have a splitting headache but that's not really surprising.

Thanks again, Smileless for being so understanding, we're all in the same boat here aren't we. It's just happened to me .....yet, but it will.

Hi Derbyshiregirl Your strength and resilience is inspiring. I am still learning to put myself first. You definitely have narcissists pegged! So sorry for your pain and think you are definitely doing all the right things. You can't change your DiL, but you can change how you deal with her. I hope your son is brave enough to continue to see you and aware enough to not believe what she is saying. Carry on keeping evidence.

Sara, your parents! Fancy them not even mentioning it!

So much pain. Well done to everyone who has opened up and not let the bad treatment you've recieved make you suffer in silence. Here's to OUR health and OUR wellbeing with or without them.

Hi DerbyshireLass and a warm welcome to the estrangement forum. I always have mixed emotions when I see someone sharing here for the first time.

I'm pleased that you've found us here, people who know exactly what you're going through at such a difficult time. That said it's a constant sadness to know that someone else's life is being marred by estrangement or by the threat of estrangement.

I have such admiration for your courage and self worth and I know that had our estrangement not been as sudden and shocking, that I would have responded to our ES's wife the way that you have.

I read several years ago that the only way to win a game with a narcissist is to stop playing. You've done so and this is helping to protect and maintain your emotional and physical well being.

You d.i.l. alienating your son from his brother is classic narcissist and coercive control/emotionally abusive behaviour. As with all abusers, there's a need to isolate their victim from anyone who may see them for what they are and what they're doing.

I'm certain that the only reason our ES remains in contact with his brother is because he lives on the other side of the world, so is not considered by her to be too much of a threat. That said, she will I'm sure have something to say about how much on line contact they have.

I totally understand that we all react too, and deal with our estrangements or possible estrangements in different ways. I would never have been able to bite my tongue or walk on egg shells in the face of your d.i.l.'s behaviour and treatment of you, had that come from mine.

Maybe on some level she, and your d.i.l. know that. It's very telling that you've already 'called her bluff' and she backed down. It's the ultimate threat and act of control isn't is, using our GC as weapons, threatening to take them away and then actually doing so.

There's nothing selfish about putting yourself first it's the only thing we can do and is necessary for our own well being. We cannot control the actions of others only our responses, and walking away with our heads held high, preventing them from using our GC like pawns in their cruel games, is a brave and admirable one.

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DerbyshireLass thank you. But other people have helped me and if I can help someone I will. I never know if what I write makes sense to others but it does to me. I have written a lot on the pain of loss thread on beveveament forum. And people have said it helped. But I only write about things I experience or know about.

You are not being selfish you have to protect yourself. My body doesn't always let me do what I want. And it annoys the hell out of me.

But I am one of those people who whatever life throws at me I get on with it. I will not give up that would let my husband down and family and friends who love and care for me.

Since I moved here was never invited to my son and daughter in law's house. But that didn't bother me. I was happy to have my son and grandson's here. Last time I saw my daughter in law was boxing day 2019. When they came here. I was going to theirs but my son said they would come here and he would bring the food and cook here. I suppose I should have realised then something was up. But again I was happy. My daughter in law sat and crocheted and only spoke to me if I asked her a question.

Thinking back I must have been an idiot with blinkers on. But I was happy. Things we put up with for love of our children.

Take care . There is an old saying 'change the things you can ,'can't remember the rest but think it should be sod the rest and do what makes you happy. ?

Good morning Whiff.

Thank you for taking the time to write to me. What a sad sorry tale. You have had so much to deal with and yet you remain so strong. You are an inspiration.

I do hope your health is improving. Please take care and look after yourself now, you've given so much to your family. It is to their shame that they don't give back something to you now. But if they won't then you must.

I am going to do the same now. I am going to start taking better care of me, get well, strong and healthy. I feel drained and exhausted. The anniversary is looming so I am just going to rest until I feel stronger. Just need to get over this next few days and then start doing nice things for me. See friends, a bit of gardening, treat myself to a few bits for the house.

I never could stand emotional upsets, I have had stomach problems all of my life due to living with the stress of having a narcissistic father. Without fail, every time I have an emotional upset my stomach starts churning and ends up in knots and my digestive system goes to pot, so it is at the moment. So now I am resolved to put a stop to it all.

It sounds selfish but I'm going to put myself first now. I am not going to allow the situation to make me ill. I am stepping right back. My son can visit me and bring the children whenever he wishes here at my home but I doubt I will visit him at his home again, not when it is as plain as a pikestaff that she doesn't want me there. It's not my imagination, she told me straight up, she didn't want me there the other day. Not at the time, but afterwards in that dreadful text.

Whether she deigns to visit here or not is up to her. Frankly I'm past caring. She constantly bleats on about her feelings but never stops to consider I too might have feelings. You have to laugh, typical narcissist, all me, me, me.

Anyway I'm done. This last episode has been the nail in the coffin for me, she has well and truly burnt her bridges as far as I'm concerned. Enough is enough. I am no longer interested in having a relationship with her. She's blown it.

I too am an atheist and like you I believe in karma. We do indeed reap as we sow. My DIL will face many challenges in the years to come but she will be largely friendless and have to face them alone. Karma.

I am going to stop worrying about a situation I am powerless to change. I will make the changes I can to improve my own life and leave it there.

Que Sera and all that.

I will be fine, I am emotionally strong and resilient - it's just my body that lets me down sometimes. But I will nurse myself back to full health and will do my utmost to live a happy life. No more wasting precious time on people who couldn't give a fig about me,

When the virus calms down and life continues to get back to some semblance of normal I will start socialising a bit more, maybe even have a little holiday at some point. Its time to get busy living, it's what my husband would want me to do. He is in my heart and will be with me always, I am not looking to replace him. I am happy in my own skin and I know I can build a good life for myself. So that's what I am going to do.

Of course I want my son and my grandchildren to be a part of my life but if they can't then so be it. But I won't prostrate myself before the altar of DIL in an attempt to hold on to them. I will bow out graciously with my pride and dignity intact.

Thank you so much Whiff for your kind words of wisdom and support. You have helped me more than words can say. Look after yourself and I will look after me. ❤️

DerbyshireLass a wonderful post. I know if my husband was alive my son would never have done what he has. Also my husband would never have put up with his letting me down and my daughter in law's rudeness.

But as I said until 2 years ago lived over 100 miles away. So I was always glad to see them . I don't now if she had always hated me. I was so happy when they met as she made my sad boy happy again. Had a lot going on in my life grieving, looking after both parents and mother in law.

A few weeks after mom's funeral I started to feel ill. Just thought it was my body saying time to rest you have been none stop for years . Bringing up the children, getting ill,father in law dieing,my husband and mom had cancer the same time. My husband died mom survived . Different cancers and grades. Dad's decline and death. Mother in law's death . Mom getting cancer again and her death 4 years later.
In between all that both children got married , my brother married again to a wonderful woman who I love dearly and the birth of my first grandson .

Then thought I had flu. But it was jaundice couldn't see I was yellow. It was a shock when I got discharged from the gastrologist's care to find out I was that ill could have died. My son knows all this as he came to see me in hospital and once I was home . He tried to come once a week . But they where moving into a new house and had a young baby. So didn't expect him to come.

I have never made demands on my children's time and neither myself or husband interfered in their lives once they where teenagers. If they wanted to tell us things or ask advice or questions then we where always there for them. No subject was taboo in our house. So whatever the children asked we gave then the real answer. I know some parents fudged embarrassing questions but we always found and told them the real answers. No Google in those days it was off to the library. As an example and I hope no one is offend but my daughter came home from school and asked what rimming was. I gathered it had to be sexual so went to the library and found out. And told her the answer.

Why no subject was taboo was because my husband never had his questions answered . My mom was 90 when she died and I always said she was an innocent. If we wanted to know anything dad told us. It was my dad who explained to me about periods, facts of life etc. Dad was a man of the world and also had been in the St John's ambulance brigade for 30 years.

When my son sent the email he knew I was waiting to have a bubble echo on my heart. As the first appointment should have been in March but got cancelled because of Covid. He knew there was a problem with my heart after the echo . I had the bubble echo in May if he had opened his birthday card I had put in a letter. Just saying hope the baby arrived safely and both mother and baby where well and they where all ok. And my grandson's were getting used to their brother. Even ask how his mother in law was. And told him the results of the echo. At the age of 62 found I was born with a heart defect but it's not a hole but something else.

But he just sent everything back unopened with that vile letter. So doesn't know. Even if he had read it don't expect it would have changed anything.

You ask in your post how a grown woman can be jealous of friendship between brother's. My brother thinks my daughter in law is jealousy of mine and my son's relationship. I don't understand that kind of jealousy . How can a wife who loves her husband be jealous of him loving his family. Brothers do have a special bond.

How can she be jealous of me I am his mother not his lover. My brother thinks she is jealous of the fact my grandson's loved coming here. But she could have come to. I was always surprised she didn't.

My daughter and her never got on from when they first met. But I never got on with my brother's second wife and my husband hated the sight of her but she was family and was treated as such.

You are more savvy than me I never saw this coming. Thinking back the signs where there but didn't take any notice as I said only lived here 2 years.

Both my children had wanted me to live closer to them for years but they understood I had family that needed me. I was brought up with the importance of family. Family was everything to my parents especially my mom. That included extended family. My brother and me where brought knowing our great aunts and uncles and second cousins. Mom always said family comes first and you can always rely on them.

I used to think that to. But not anymore . I love and miss my son and grandson's very much . My daughter in law killed any love I had for her with a sentence I was told she wrote on Reddit. 'FIL died to get away from MIL.' How can anyone be that wicked especially as she never knew my husband. But I don't hate her or my son. As I have said don't want or need hate in my life.

I am glad I have zero contact as I couldn't put up with the abuse you are and others are getting.

I am glad to read you are at peace with yourself. You are still grieving for your husband . You have to protect yourself it's not taking the easy way out or selfish. But you have a son who loves ,needs and wants you. Your other son will be made to choose soon and he will have to choose his children over you . Which will bend your heart as it already is. But like me it broke when your husband died.

It's hard to think that the son you love rejects you. Especially as you know you haven't done anything wrong. But you can get through it . If it wasn't for Smiles and all here and the thread Smiles started I couldn't have got to where I am now. I came to terms with losing my son and grandson's after his letter and returned presents which will be a year on Saturday as it will be his 34th and second son's 3rd birthday on Friday. I can not change what has happened but I will not let in change who I am or living my life to the full.

My husband dieing at 47 has taught me life is to short for what if's. I am an atheist but do believe in Karma. You reap what you sow. So my son and daughter in law have interesting years ahead of them as my grandson's grow and become independent with minds of their own.

You know you are a good mom and grandmother . Live the life you want to the full. Your husband would be proud of you . ?

Battery all charged up.

Thank you for you kind thoughts, Whiff. I have read some of your posts and I am so sorry to hear how you have been treated.

At least I have fair warning of any impending estrangement so I am now mentally prepared and braced for when it happens but it must have been such a terrible shock for you when it came like a bolt out of the blue. You have been treated most shamefully.

Do you think your son has been bullied into it by your DIL, could she have used the grandchildren as a weapon to keep your son under her control. Could she have poisoned him against you. I know full well this is what my DIL is trying to do, drip feeding her venom and trying to turn my son against me.

I have spent most of today reading threads, and visiting websites, learning as much as I can and I have been working out a strategy for how best to deal with the coming storm.

I have decided I will never be alone with her again, that my son will need to be present at all times. That way he can be witness to all that is said and done and she cannot twist or wilfully misrepresent my words or deeds.

I will not have private telephone conversations with her, I will avoid speaking to her on the phone and ensure that we communicate by text. Texts from me will be short and sweet, mainly restricted to making arrangements to visit. I will not delete any texts she sends me but will keep them as a record. I might need them as evidence.

I know it all sounds rather petty and somewhat anal but I need to protect myself for when the proverbial does hit the fan. It's a self preservation thing so that at least my son will know the truth even if he does have to estrange me to keep the peace and not lose his children. He will know what is real and what is the result of her fevered imaginings.

Like most narcs my DIL is vain and shallow, she has grandiose feelings of self importance and considers herself superior to everyone else. She has an ego the size of a planet, zero self awareness, an explosive and uncontrollable temper and she is completely incapable of exercising self discipline or self restraint. Whilst she is academically brilliant she is not nearly as savvy as she likes to think she is and she will slip up sooner or later.

Love might be blind but my son is not stupid and eventually his instincts for self preservation and survival will kick in. He won't be taken in forever. She won't win, in the end she will self sabotage, she will get complacent and overplay her hand.

I probably sound quite ruthless, analysing it all like this and preparing myself. I wont go into battle with her, I won't argue with her or be confrontational in any way. I can't be bothered because it is a total waste of time and energy trying to reason with a narcissist and engaging in open warfare with a narcissist is a pointless and fruitless exercise, so like Ghandi I will use passive resistance.

I now accept that I will probably be estranged and I can cope with that well enough. My only aim now is to ensure that my son and, by extension, in later years my grandchildren, will know that I am not the monster in law she would portray me as.

I want my grandchildren to know that they had a paternal family that loved them. I might not be around by the time they are old enough to ask questions but they need to know they had a grandmother who loved them and did not abandon them without a fight. They need to know they have an uncle who has their backs.

I have no personal animosity towards my DIL, in fact I do have a certain sympathy for her. She can't help herself and she is a very unhappy and troubled young woman, tormented by doubt and insecurity. However, much as I feel sorry for her I cannot simply stand by and let her destroy my family, not without putting up some show of resistance.

I will be happy enough to walk away provided I know my son still holds me in high esteem and she hasn't been able to poison him against his family. That will do me.

It is so difficult isn't it, being a widow and living with estrangement (or even just the threat of it). My poor Late husband would be turning in his grave if he had one.

I do sometimes think that if my husband were alive he would probably have been able to advise our son on a man to man basis and offer better support than I have been able to provide. I also think if my husband were alive my DIL would be better behaved. He would have soon stopped her nonsense. I think I have been too soft with her, making allowances and tiptoeing on eggshells so as to keep the peace. My husband would have given her short shrift whilst my softness has enabled her.

Alas he's not here and I have to try and get to grips with the situation and navigate the choppy waters as best I can.

My youngest son has been more or less ghosted by my DIL but thankfully it's water off a ducks back to him. He couldn't give a fig so she has no power of him.....which of course infuriates her so she is dead set on causing a rift between them.

How on earth can a grown woman can be jealous of the friendship between two brothers....but then narks are driven by insecurity and feeling inadequate which is why they have this overwhelming need to exercise control over those they purport to love. It's a sick and twisted kind of love.

Anyway I'm putting it all to one side now. I am at peace with myself. Tomorrow is a new day and a fresh start.

Thanks Whiff. I have read some of your posts and you have helped me enormously, more than you can know.

I'm going to run out of battery. Will post again later. ❤️

Thank you Sara for your kind words and encouragement.

I've no idea what makes people so cruel..........maybe it's because they are damaged and hurting themselves. Maybe they just don't know any better.

I answered her nasty text with politeness and kindness but I doubt it will be appreciated. It won't be what she wants, she wants and thrives on drama but I won't engage.

I have sussed her out. I have her pegged and she doesn't like it one bit. . I know her modus operandi, I know how to respond. I won't play her games, or feed her ego and that's why she gets so angry with me. She's relentless but what she doesn't realise is I had decades learning how to protect myself from my fathers cruelty. He was a consummate narcissist, a very unpleasant man but I learned how to shield myself.

I learned to respond to my father with amused indifference, tried that with DIL and it doesn't work. I think blanket bombing with kindness works best with my DIL. It takes the wind out of her sails and robs her of ammunition.

Narcissists are clever arent they, or at least they think they are. they look for our weaknesses and any chink in our armour and then go for the jugular. But they are also quite transparent, so it's easy to spot their drivers, their motivation and what makes them tick.

But you are so right with your advice I AM going to step even further back now. I will put this last couple of days behind me and get on with my life. I am going to play my cards very close to my chest and keep her at arms length.

I am not going to go into a downward spiral and wallow in a misery fest I am going to pick myself up and dust myself down.

I have decided that next week I will indulge in a bit of retail
therapy, treat myself in honour my husband. I am going to join a slimming club. I am not hugely overweight, but could do with shifting a stone and half. And I might meet some nice people there.

There are couple of minor medical things on my to do list so I am just going to crack on with those. I am going to put myself first now. I will still be there for my son but I'm not going to put my life on hold, waiting for the next crisis.

Time to put it to bed now. Let her do her worst. I'm prepared.

I've just managed a late lunch/early dinner, just fish so nice and light and easy. First thing I've eaten since yesterday afternoon. Feel better now for having eaten something,

Going to make a cup of coffee and snuggle up on the sofa with a film.

Put it all out of my mind. Tomorrow is a new day.

I am determined to live the best life I can. If my son and the grandchildren can be part of my life well that would be fantastic, if not well it's a great shame but I'm not going to let it stop me having a rich and rewarding life and I'm not going to let Madam spoil my future. I have spent 5 years trying to form a good relationship with her. No more, I'm done.

I won't estrange her, I shall always be pleasant and polite, but I'm not going to fret if she decides to estrange me. I lived perfectly well for 65 years before she came into my life. I can live perfectly well without her.

DerbyshireLass I have been widowed 17.5 years. For the first 13th anniversaries of my husband death . The run up to it I relived every day of it. I kept it from my children as on the day I was a sodden mess . By accident on the 14 th anniversary was the usual sodden mess and usually our children texted me. But my daughter phoned and it all came out . Both my son and daughter told me I should have told them how bad I got . But I told them I was protecting them they asked from who I said me. My daughter understood but my son didn't. They where still grieving for their dad.

I made sure I was never like that again. I felt I was letting them, my husband and myself down.

It's funny but I was always ok with his birthday, wedding anniversary and Christmas which was his favourite holiday.

May would have been our 40th wedding anniversary I was ok . I wanted to look at our wedding album but couldn't on the day. But did a week later. It made me realise just how many people where at our wedding that are also dead. But it brought back many happy memories of the day.

Grief in my experience doesn't get any less you just cope better. But at times a tidal wave of grief over whelms me. Like it did earlier today.

My son not wanting me is like a living grief . I grieve for the son I had and my 3 grandson's. The son who sent me that email and letter isn't the son I know. But I can't turn off the love I have for him and my grandson's.

But I will never contact him. He wants zero contact he's got it. If he wants me back in their lives he will have to come here and face me. But not holding my breath.

DerbyshireLass as you will already have noticed I ramble on.

The thread below this one started by Smiless2012 I also ramble on. It was her help via PMs that I was able to post openly. Posters there and here have helped me come to terms with estrangement. I didn't even know it was called that.

So you ramble on as much as you want and don't think you are boring anyone. ?

Derbyshirelass
It seems you are doing everything right, and with a very clear head.
I think your son would be very worried about you, if he realised the extent of his wife’s cruelty, and the terrible effect it’s having on you,
I think you need to step back from it, she is going to make you ill, maybe that’s her intention.
Why in the world are people so cruel to each other?

Thanks for listening...........

I am sorry if I have bored you all to death. I didn't mean to monopolise the thread but I just needed to get it off my chest.

I have just written everything up in my journal. It's all there then for when I need to refer to it. I know it sounds a bit anal but it helps me try and make sense of what's happening. Keeping a record stops me from questioning my sanity when she gaslights me because I have a record of what was said and done. It's also a written testimony to all that has happened. One day I may need this as evidence.

I haven't slept very well and I'm now exhausted and drained after yesterday's shenanigans. I need peace and rest now to recover,

I wasn't sure how to deal with her last vicious text from last night. I was tempted to ignore it but then it occurred to me that that would only enrage her even more and she would then accuse me of being cruel and callous and not caring about her feelings.

So, after much careful deliberation, this morning I sent her what I hope was a considered, measured, proportionate and kind response, using words that could not be deliberately misconstrued or saying anything which could be twisted and used as ammunition against me. Talk about walking a tightrope. I am so tired of treading on eggshells, it's exhausting.

I have a splitting headache, no appetite and feel dreadfully queasy. I m now going to try and eat something and then rest, settle down with a nice film to try and lift my spirits.

I do find it takes quite a while to regain my equilibrium after one of her "episodes". My stomach gets churned up in knots and I can end up feeling quite ill.

As I mentioned I too am a widow, just coming up to the 7th anniversary of his death. I know it's 7 years now but I still find anniversaries and other special days somewhat of a trial. I need all my strength to get through the next few days, without having to contend with my DILs antics.

All I want is a quiet life without friction, stress and drama. Surely it's not too much to ask for......

Thanks Sara. Good advice.

And you are right about him being wary of pushing against her because as you say she won't be above using the children as weapons.

I have already stepped back. I have learned never to initiate contact. I let her take the initiative and set the agenda. I realise it's merely enabling her and allowing her to get away with murder but I do it in the name of peace and harmony.

I see no point in aggravating her or rocking the boat. It would only fuel her narcissistic rage and my son would suffer.

I only visited yesterday at his request. He asked, I went. I won't post the reason on a public forum. She definitely didn't want me there - she told me so in a text rant later in the evening when I got home.

However, she couldn't refuse his request without looking bad in his eyes so she reluctantly acquiesced and then proceeded to spoil the visit by humiliating my son by the way she spoke to him in front of me. I could see how embarrassed he was but of course I said nothing and had to pretend I hadn't noticed his discomfort.

This is what it has come down to so you can see why I think she's gearing up to making her next move.

Like all narks she is sly and devious. He knows nothing about the abusive phone calls I receive from her, nor the texts where she rants and raves. She makes out to everyone, my son included, that's she's all sweetness and light to me, but in secret she continues to harass me, gaslighting and trying to bamboozle me. Classic nark behaviour. I'm the last obstacle to get rid of and then she will have total dominion.

I've just had a lovely text from my son.....I know he loves me and wants me in his life.

It's just very very difficult.

I would love to walk away but I won't, not whilst my son still wants me. I will just try to keep things jogging along whilst maintaining my dignity and integrity.

Derbyshirelass
I really admire that you have not resorted to playing her at her own game, she sounds odious, if you son sees her using the children as a weapon against him, he is probably scared to death of pushing her too far.
Maybe you could talk to your son privately, and say you’re prepared to take a step back for the sake of harmony, but you are always there if needed.
I hope you can make things work, but I think you are absolutely right not to let her bully you.

My son and I aren't estranged ....yet. I think he is trying just as hard as I am to keep things on an even keel. However, I do feel there is a very strong possibility that estrangement will happen at some point. I know that this is my DILs end game. She wants to cut him off from his friends and family so she can have total control.

I am just waiting for that axe to fall.......I'm pretty convinced it will happen and probably fairly soon.

In the meantime we do all we can to keep channels open, but I've seen many of his friends give up and walk away. Not sure how much longer we can limp along like this. There have to limits after all.

I will stand my ground against her because I refuse to be cowed by a bully. I will not allow her to manipulate me or use my son and grandchildren as leverage to bend me to her will, nor will I will allow myself to be a victim of emotional blackmail.

She has twice tried to use emotional blackmail threatening to cut me off. The first time I called her bluff and she backed down, the second time, just yesterday in fact, I ignored her threats and pretended I hadn't heard.

Not quite sure when she will try again but I have no doubt she will and I feel sure it will be soon. I am prepared.

I am happy to walk away from her, she's toxic. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I never saw her or spoke to her again. If it weren't for my son I would have walked years ago.

But, as I said, there are limits as to what I will put up with. I will not allow myself to become her creature. It would be extremely painful if I were to be estranged from my son and grandchildren but that might be a price I have to pay. I will not let her break me. I would rather just cut my losses.

I have experience, too much experience, of living with a narcissist. My father was a nark and I learned that there is no winners, only losers. Narks never give up until they either get complete control or destroy you. The only way a victim can protect themselves is by walking away.

I am only sticking around and allowing her to remain in my life so as to try and protect my son and grandchildren. The children are just babies. I am all my son and grandchildren have left, she has pushed everyone else away and I feel it's my duty to do what I can to help them.

I will not make my son piggy in the middle though, I refuse to make his life even more difficult. I would walk today but I know he loves me and still wants me in his life so I stay......for now.

It's a struggle at times because I cannot bear the way she humiliates and embarrasses him. I just wish he would open his eyes and realise he's on a hiding to nothing, I hate to see him him so cowed and emasculated. But he knows as well as I do that she will use the children as leverage.

When the time comes and the axe falls, I will simply accept the inevitable and bow out gracefully and hope that both my son and the grandchildren will try to keep up some limited form of contact. But I won't force the issue, if my absence makes their lives easier then I won't try to fight estrangement.

I know in my heart and soul that I have done my level best and that will have to suffice.

Sara1954 In my son's email and letter he has painted the worst mother to ever walk the earth and already rewrote history. Things he put in those things that never happened. And what my daughter in law wrote on Reddit was truly awful. My grandson's with them the oldest will be 5 in October, his brother 3 next week and the baby must be 1 now.

They probably don't remember me. Last time I saw the 2 oldest was March last year and never seen the baby . Don't even know his name or date of birth.

But no matter what they tell them about me. As they grow they will think for themselves. And it will be up to them if they want to find me.

My only hope is my son doesn't say awful things about his dad. I can't forgive him for what his said about me , but if he blackens his father's name them I will wash my hands of him.

But I will just have to wait and see what happens in years to come .