Toxic Mother

Jillyjosie it may not be normal, but unfortunately it is quite common. Gampsy I sympathise. I have a difficult mother and a disfunctional brother who lives with her. I have learned to emotionally detach most of the time so the nasty comments don't bother me. I visit once a week and have polite (mostly) conversation. I stay up to an hour but will cut it short at any time. Fortunately I don't do her shopping as my brother is there. Mum is deeply unhappy but has become very nasty as she's got older. She ruined my retirement dinner and my 60th birthday dinner because it wasn't about her so that made it easier for me to detach. Definitely enjoy your time away and begin a new routine on your return. Good luck.

I think I was trying to say Gampsey that your mother's behaviour is not exactly normal so there may be an underlying reason rather than just assuming she's malicious. She certainly can't be very happy if she behaves as you describe despite apparently manipulating your whole family. Sad. All the best to you.

Let her phone your sister in law..
Now you step back..
Look after yourself...she wont/cant change.. but you can!

How does she respond if you say ' That sounds rather rude/ hurtful. Did you intend it to be?' while smiling sweetly.

Gampsy

Sounds like you have been conditioned to cater to your mother

Tie it to the social obligation to your parents, no matter how they behave

Do not give yourself another excuse, her age means nothing
It is how she treats you
Put yourself first.

Sadly my Mum’s condition isn’t illness, depression or any other kind of disorder. It’s always a well timed, targeted take down undertaken in a cold and emotionless manner which ironically almost gives her pleasure. Having fallen out with me, she has phoned my sister in law up to tell her that it’s all her fault. Honestly, I give up.

Discodancer, I did see your post but depression is not the same as a personality disorder, especially borderline personality disorder.

So some of the things I've had to do have a name 'grey rock'. I didn't know that. It is helpful to know that other people have similar challenges to mine so thank you everyone.

I would say continue with the things you are doing for her such as collecting her shopping, and phone to check she is all right. This will stop you feeling guilt because you are taking care of her. Other than that, do not indulge in conversation beyond the mundane, and if she starts the silent treatment bid goodbye politely and put the phone down.
She knows what she is doing and it won't change now; you have to change your response to her. Always remember 'I do what I can'. People like this are past masters at inculcating guilt in others because they don't care for anyone but themselves.

JillyJosie2

No one else has said this so I will, she sounds ill to me. Possibly she has a personality or other mental illness that has never been treated. She could even have some kind of dementia on top of a lifelong disorder. Try reading about borderline personality disorder and see if the symptoms ring any bells, sudden mood changes, hostility and suicidal threats are all part of it.

That said, getting professional help, especially in the middle of a pandemic may be hard and I don't know the ethics of being able to discuss your mother with a health care professional.

I was discussing dominating mothers with two friends recently and we all agreed that probably being children of the Victorian parental era and living through one or two World Wars had produced dysfunctional families and traumatised individuals who simply shouldn't have had children. Good luck OP, Grey Rock sounds a good initiative if you can do it and you could try estrangement, the stress can't be doing you much good.

I said it on the first page.

Jillyjosie
Oh he is.
Neither of us like her much, he at least is in contact with her, I'm not!

Sara1954 I hope your husband is being supportive, it sounds as though he doesn't like her much! I guess the point is, that unless they can change, some people produce very unhappy children - 'man (or woman) hands on misery to man' as the poet said.

Jillyjosie
My husband always says my mother should never have had children.
Not sure what to make of that really!

I think it’s great that you’re going away.
Come home with a new attitude.
Take a deep breath and start afresh with a different “regime” if you can.
?

No one else has said this so I will, she sounds ill to me. Possibly she has a personality or other mental illness that has never been treated. She could even have some kind of dementia on top of a lifelong disorder. Try reading about borderline personality disorder and see if the symptoms ring any bells, sudden mood changes, hostility and suicidal threats are all part of it.

That said, getting professional help, especially in the middle of a pandemic may be hard and I don't know the ethics of being able to discuss your mother with a health care professional.

I was discussing dominating mothers with two friends recently and we all agreed that probably being children of the Victorian parental era and living through one or two World Wars had produced dysfunctional families and traumatised individuals who simply shouldn't have had children. Good luck OP, Grey Rock sounds a good initiative if you can do it and you could try estrangement, the stress can't be doing you much good.

Thank you for your wise words. I’m going to take a couple of days to think about all of this and hopefully have a rational conversation with my Mum although I’m not expecting a positive outcome as I had suggested the last time we spoke that she needs to apologise to my brother and his wife and obviously this was unacceptable to her. In fact, she has never apologised once in her life and is quite proud of that fact. I am expecting the sulky, hard done by Mum to come on the phone and I then have to win her over before she will capitulate and speak normally to me. Luckily I’m on holiday for a couple of weeks soon so maybe I can use that time to formulate a plan of action going forward. Ultimately I’d just love a normal Mum but sadly that will never happen.

Grey rock sounds like a good policy, also surely once a week is enough for shopping? Don't ask her, tell her. I know it is easy for me to say at a distance, but sometimes cold analysis of a situation which you are emotionally embroiled in is what you need. There are many on here who have endured the same as you, to varying degrees and they will have great advice. Remember, if this was a partner or husband treating you like this, the advice would be unanimous to leave him.

I completely understand Gampsy because the thought of her being elderly and alone worries me too but that's because in normal circumstances with a good relationship I would want to be there for her.

Logically my mother has performed very badly in her role and doesn't deserve my concern as we do not have a relationship. I also wish I had done it sooner.

It is always a parents choice to have children and their choice how they raise us and treat us as adults. We don't owe them anything. We especially don't owe them our time at the expense of our own mental and physical health.

I think if I am contacted by family when my mother becomes very elderly I will consider contributing towards a carer. That way I can do something without putting myself at risk.

I think it can be hard for others to understand that even an elderly person can cause huge amounts of hurt and stress but when you have had a lifetime of it, they know exactly how to push your buttons, they installed those buttons very well.

You deserve to be happy.

Thank you to everyone who has responded and supported me at this difficult time. VioletSky, I especially like the Grey Rock advice and am willing to give it a try. I know in hindsight I should have escaped many years ago while my Mum was younger because her age is the only thing holding me back from walking. I’m a very emotional person who suffers with guilt even over small issues so I know that even if it is 100% the right thing to do, I’m still not there yet. Honestly, my head is totally scrambled and my heart is in despair. I need to think about what’s best for my family and whatever I do I want it to be freeing and fair.

Just had a quick look, the other was entitled Why do I feel so resentful towards by mother? Or something very similar. It was started by another lady with an over demanding mother.

Do you know what surprises me? It’s just how many mothers display these narcissistic tendencies. Some very extreme like Gampsy’s mother, some less extreme, but still quite difficult to deal with, especially in old age, when the demands seem to become greater. This is the third thread on this subject in the last couple of weeks. One was about a very demanding mother, I actually started one myself (Three Elderly Parents) and now there’s this one. I think there have been others in the past too. I wonder why so many mothers behave in this way.

Thanks for the Grey Rock treatment advice! I’d never heard of it but I hope it’s helps anyone who would find it helpful. I hope the OP can use it to help her equilibrium. It’s a great start towards healing & management of this troubling issue.

Walk away,you teach people how to treat you.
She does what works for her.
Leave her to it.

There was something similar to this a few weeks ago. I’ll say the same to you as I said to that poster.
It sounds like your mother is...and has been... ill for quite some time. Depression maybe? However, you can’t make her better, only encourage her to seek help. It should have no more effect on your family.
We’ve been there, and the only answer is to walk away I’m afraid. You’ll be so much happier.

Violetsky has given good advice Gampsy