Theoretical rather than a support thread

Oh, I'm glad it was a joke! That's a relief! Voletsky Humor on the estrangement forums is so rare, but very welcome!

That is very sad Gagajo and it makes sense that we idolise our parents or other adults when we are young so we are very impressionable. My saying is "Im in therapy to cope with all the people who needed therapy and didn't have it" It's too late for me now to bring my kids up in a different way, but not too late to have healthier relationships with them as adults. I wish I got help sooner.

My mother was fostered to an uncaring family as a v young child. Consequently, she was a v cold woman until she was in early old age. Sadly, I think this has had a knock on affect for at least 2 later generations.

Don't worry Onward just a silly joke, thinking is hard in general, sometimes lol

So sorry Annie that you lost contact with your sisters when you needed them the most.

So sorry Freedomfromthepast that you also had that. Yes, as a child and for most of my life, my Mother would completely ignore me any time I said anything she didn't agree with or like and probably any time she had gotten bored or had enough? It is so painful and yes I think it is emotional abuse. In her defence, she had grown up thinking this was normal and it was done to her. Shame she passed it on though!

Good for you Violetsky for realising that it's just your Mother doing this to all generations. Why doesn't this surprise me? Because my Mother also did this, but is now talking to us all. I actually think she has convinced herself it was our doing. Sorry I caused an ouch the whole thing just is so painful.

No one on my husband's side of the family is estranged, they all have pretty normal and healthy relationships at least. He has a secure attachment, but I do not due to my childhood. I am working on being more secure. I wish I had had more therapy before becoming a parent, just as I wish my Mother had had therapy before having me.

Also adding to that, I think you are probably right with your son. When he was going through his issues, he remembered something that hurt you and used it. I suppose that could easily have been something else he knew would hurt you at that time and he was lashing out.

Onward you made me think! Ouch.

Anyway, all estrangements in my family that I am aware of involve my mother...

So it's not really a family pattern is it? The same person was involved in all the estrangements with different generations!

I agree about silent treatment being emotional abuse, the saying about the silence being deafening springs to mind. After the silence which thankfully didn't last long, the final act of estrangement was something of a relief.

At least we knew where we stood which you can never know for sure when you're being subjected to the silence.

Onward: IMO the silent treatment is the cancer and estrangement is the cure.

My mother used the silent treatment as punishment. She would get mad for one reason or another and then give us the silent treatment. We would then wander around for days wondering what she was mad about. Then, a few days later, she would go back to talking to us, like nothing ever happened.

The silent treatment is an emotional abuse tactic.

Estrangement gives the power from the abuser (using the silent treatment) to the victim (not allowing the abuser to be able to use the silent treatment).

I think some people think that silent treatment and estrangement are the same thing. They definitely are not.

That sounds very much like our ES's wife's family Socksandsocks so although not applicable in all cases, there does seem to be evidence that estrangement can be a pattern of behaviour in some families.

My inlaws had a pattern. Which followed through to their kids and now our kids. I had never come across it before but now it's here. My son stopped all contact with his sister in law which ended up no contact with his elder brother. My daughter in law regularly cut out her parents and half her family. Now I'm cut out of their lives too. But I'm not prepared to be treated like dirt or verbally and emotionally abused. I think it's part of life now.

How sad Annie. I have read your story and my heart goes out to you. Not the same I know but my brother took his own life aged 24.
As for other people's reaction to bereavement and illness, my nephew contracted leukemia aged 16. The family rallied around obviously. Except for our older sister. She said it upset her too much to see him suffer. I don't understand that logic. So she was upset. That lad died in front of me when I was at the hospital visiting. Believe me, I was upset.

I don't know what to say Annie. The death of someone for so many is so difficult to talk about and even more so when they took their own life.

I cannot begin to imagine how terrible the loss of your DD has been and how that has been compounded by the loss of contact with your family. Do you feel you may be able to reach out to them and say how you long to be in contact again?

So different for me, I am part of a very large extended family as were my parents and grandparents. I have three sisters, we are godmothers to each other’s children, our children the same
with their cousins., we live in the same town.

When my darling daughter became very ill things changed, my sisters were supportive until ten months before she died then
silence, not even a telephone call when she took her life, so
silence for five years with the exception of an email on my daughter’s birthday from one sister who tells me she is thinking of me, I always reply .

I did ask her once why she didn’t contact me when my daughter died, she said she had her own grief to cope with, I do
know they were all distraught, they all loved her very much.

Only thing I can think of is, I am the eldest and was always the one they turned to for help. I long to be in contact with them again.

PS You know the saying... "Im in therapy because of the other's who won't go to therapy!"

Yes, being on the end of Silent Treatment feels very similar to Estrangement. I think I might have gotten Silent Treatment instead of Estrangement, but it's hard to know because I think they both feel painful.

Perhaps Estrangement starts as Silent Treatment and persists over time?

Sorry about your family's history of abuse Freedomfromthepast . I identify with that too. It is very hard to be the cycle breaker, but someone has to do it so we don't perpetuate what was done to us. It means we are the ones in therapy, willing to forgive and learn and change and grow- so we don't perpetuate unhealthy ways and learned behaviours.

I think we are always looking for the reason why. Maybe we are looking for the cure? By we I mean, all that have had to estrange or have been estranged as a whole.

In my family, there was no estrangement. Everyone was happy to continue to cycle of abuse. Because when that is what you know, that is what is normal.

There was a lot of silent treatment though. Which is completely different than estrangement.

It is my opinion that estrangement seems more common now because younger generations talk more about mental health as a whole and are more likely than previous generations to stop relationships they feel are damaging, even if those relationships are family.

Heck, this generation will quit a job without having a new one in order to preserve their mental health. Good for them I say, but not something that I would have ever done.

What is normal is changing, as always.

It's interesting what you said about your Mother using silence to punish while you use it to protect yourself Violetsky That makes a lot of sense to me as I think our Mother's may be similar.

My Mother has a history of estrangement, but I don't think my GP did...so its started with her from what I can see. Unfortunately one period when she estranged us really hurt my kids and probably taught them that if you really want to hurt someone you can always estrange them! Fortunately Im not estranged at the moment, but always concious of how delicate feelings and relationships are.

Some get on less well than others and don’t have much contact but everyone can smile and say hi/have a chat at family get togethers.

I suspect this only works because everyone has the same level of expectations about the relationship.

Though it would be great If those who had mismatched expectations could do this. I suspect it would be too hard for most people who want higher levels of contact to keep it polite though

I think that's definitely a factor Pumpkin and sometimes not wanting too, being able too or knowing how to sort out issues before they escalate can be significant too.

"Some get on less well than others and don't have much contact but everyone can smile and say hi/have a chat at family get togethers". That's certainly a much better way of dealing with problems if at all possible.

As has already been said, there can be many reasons that result in estrangement and becoming a family pattern is just one of them.

Pumpkin I agree with you an think the same, that estrangement is just one of many tools and it's poor family relationships that are the issue. I'm so different to many family members, I would never engage with all the gossip and talking behind backs that used to go on.

In my mind, estrangement is an outcome of poor family relationships. Those, I think, can run in families, but I don’t think estrangement generally does. Not in my experience both with my family and that of friends.

My DM had a difficult relationship with her DM and felt her brothers were favoured, and I have the same dynamic with my DM. My DF has periodically estranged himself from various family members but he suffers with exceptionally poor mental health and isn’t often in a good place, meaning I don’t think he makes fantastic decisions. His DM (my DGM) estranged her DF, but there were very serious circumstances behind that which were quite unforgivable. Otherwise DF is an isolated case in estranging people in his family, and there isn’t any estrangement on the other side. Some get on less well than others and don’t have much contact but everyone can smile and say hi/have a chat at family get togethers.

I think estrangement can become a family pattern, but that could be because a pattern within a family.

Our ES's wife's parents were estranged from various family members, they would reconcile with some but then estrange them again at a later date.

She estranged her parents on more than one occasion and following her marriage too, and having children with our ES, we are also estranged.

Hmm.

My parents had very black and white, ‘with us or against us’ mindset. They had no hesitation in cutting anyone out. They had to protect their dysfunction and abuse, after all.

Being estranged from them was an underlying threat as long as I can remember. Finally figuring out that being estranged was a blessing, not a curse, was life changing. Freeing. No regrets.

Thank you VioletSky. No there was no help, certainly not when I was growing up.

Kate you went through a lot, you didn't owe your father any kindness in his old age, I hope you have peace now. There is sometimes little support for those with abusive parents