Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Yes I too hope that that olive branch doesn't have thorns, ?. I will put my big girls panties on and sally forth with a stout heart,. I know how to be gracious and magnanimous and I don't bear grudges.

Is her contrition genuine or is she just hoovering. Only time will tell. If she is genuine then I will be only too happy to forgive and let bygones be bygones.

The thing is like most narcs, she can be very good company when she wants to be. And I would so like to get back to having a normal easy going relaxed relationship with both of them. Don't know how realistic that will be.

Ah well it will come out in the wash. ?
.

Smiles Mr S sounds a tech wizard. My husband would love today's technology we would have everything with bells and whistles. I am limited to what I can to. Hope he won his bowls match.

My son never said stop saying I wished his dad was here to my face only in the email. He said a lot of things like calling me vindictive and manipulative. In his email and in his letter. He ended his letter by saying I don't want your vindictive or manipulative behaviour anywhere near me or my family zero contact.

I read the email and his letter so many times after he sent them I know them off by heart.

Unfortunately the memories I have lost are of our courting days. I look at a photo can't remember where it was taken or when. My husband used to tell me. Didn't think that we needed to write on the back in case we forgot.

Luckily got no storm damage. But heard on the news there is another one due in a few days it's all due to the jet stream apparently.

Jaffacake2 you have nothing to be ashamed of . It's your daughter should feel ashamed . But I understand how hard it is to admit how your child is treating you.

I sent Smiles PMs before I plucked up the courage to post openly. It's taken you a lot of courage to post but hopefully by sharing with us you can feel better about the situation. But like everything it takes time . Our estranged children seem to be able to switch off being our children but we can't switch off being a parent. And I think that grates on them .

I am still my son's mom and his sons are still my grandson's and my daughter in law is still my daughter in law. That's a fact and not a damn thing they can do about it .

Jaffacake. It is NOT YOUR SHAME. Sorry to shout ❤️ . The shame belongs to your daughter, not you. However, she feels no shame and therein lies the problem,

And you are NOT a failure.....you have, by your own admittance, brought up a daughter who is seen by others as a "kind energetic teacher, who is there for her friends" and who in her turn has produced two children who are "sociable and bright".

So you can't have done such a bad job as a parent, can you. She isn't feral, she has a successful career and appears to be socially well integrated, at least with her peer group.

The problem is whilst she may well appear to be "amazing" to the outside world they aren't seeing the whole picture are they. They are seeing the imposter, hiding behind a well constructed facade, whilst you get to see the real deal.

It doesn't matter if you have been a less than perfect mother, who is. Let's face it I doubt any of of us could lay claim to be perfect 100% of the time. All we can aspire to be is "good enough". If you daughter finds you lacking and not good enough well maybe that has as much to do with her expectations as it does with your performance.

Whatever the wrongs and rights of your relationship she is definitely lacking in the gratitude department. And she is showing you the most outrageous disrespect and lack of common courtesy.

The "pity card" remark shows not only a complete lack of empathy but also the most basic lack of understanding, Of course being in hospital is traumatic. What person in their right mind wants to be sick and hospitalised. Does she think you should have enjoyed the experience.

And she is a teacher!!!

All I can say is wow, hope she has the sense to keep her private life separate from her professional life and that she isn't passing her warped values on to her students.

Where you go from here is entirely up to you, whether you let her have a few home truths or whether you maintain a dignified silence is your decision. But I think for now at least, maybe just keep her at arms length for a while. Be pleasant but maybe just give yourself some space.

Concentrate on healing, getting better, fitter and stronger and then see how you feel. Maybe a little bit of emotional distance might help her see the error of her ways.

In the real world she would have had to pay heavily for that car loan. If you were as nasty as she makes you out to be you would demand an immediate repayment of that loan forcing to borrow her at commercial rates in order to Pay you back.

But of course you won't do that because you love her and want to help her. So please stop beating yourself up. You are not a failure, you are a kind and loving mother who stepped in to help a daughter in need.

Your daughters refusal to show any form of gratitude for your help and support and the cruelty and unkindness she displayed when you were in hospital speaks volumes about her attitude, inflated sense of self worth and her feelings of entitlement. Shame on her, not on you.

Oh no Jaffacake you must never feel ashamed. The shame is your D's, the failure is her's as a D not yours as a mother.

You're right of course, anyone being treated this way by their partner would be advised to walk away and may, although I would hate to see it said, they are wrong for staying in that relationship.

But, it's very easy to give advice of that nature to someone else, especially if you've never had personal experience and even if you have, we're all different and what some people are able to do, isn't the same for everyone.

Distancing yourself both emotionally and if you can physically, is a huge first step, so be proud from having taken the decision to do so. We love our children unconditionally. That means that no matter what they do we love them, but that doesn't mean we should be their punch bags or a door mat for them to wipe their feet on.

Afternoon everyone, so good to see all your posts.

I hope you're feeling better today hugshelp. It is frustrating when we feel under the weather and unable to get on with the things we want to do. You must have needed the rest so you did the right thing having a long lie in.

I love the analogy of the VIP area demarcated by a reed velvet rope. You are a 'very important person' and it is only fitting that you protect yourself from those who don't recognise the fact.

You're right, it's not us who needs fixing it's our EAC and we'd do everything in our power to help them, if only they'd allow us to be a part of their lives.

I remember feeling just as you described in the first 2 years of our estrangement. Looking back to those darkest of times and just how wretched we felt, it still amazes me that we are where we are today.

I wished I'd had had the opportunity to say something like that to our ES's wife; maybe one day I'll get the chance.

'An invitation to lunch' wow, I'm gobsmacked too. Of course you need to go. 'Faint heart never won fair lady' or anything else for that matter. Like Whiff, I hope there are no thorns on that olive branch.

So sorry you've been having headaches Purplepixie, they're awful aren't they. You must be looking forward to Saturday and seeing your GD's; do you have anything planned?

That was an odd thing to say Whiff, did he say it more than once? It's good that you talked about your DH as it would have enabled your children to talk about him and their own sadness, without feeling that doing so may upset you.

ES would 'phone or text me at least once a day, just pop in to see me at work or at home without saying anything before hand. Those were the days.

Hope your roof is OK. There's no such thing as self indulgence on this thread because it's a place to share as much or as little as we need.

It's awful to feel caught in the middle of your AC when they're disagreeing Jaffacake, much easier when they're children. We all feel vulnerable when unwell and that is even more pronounced if in hospital.

I can understand why your D's lack of empathy upset you and why you now feel shut down because of her lack of gratitude and may I say, even acknowledgement of what you have done for her.

Of course as their parents we will always do whatever we can for them but it's nice to feel appreciated, and horrible when we don't.

Of course you want to maintain your relationship with your GC as well as your D, and they know that don't they. They know there's a distinct possibility that we'll put up with an awful lot in order to to lose them.

Well I'm waiting for Mr. S. to get home from bowls because I can't get online to view our church's bank statement, and can't get on with doing so.

Spoke a very nice young man who talked me through going into settings and clearing data (double dutch to me of course). Did everything he said and then had to wait for a blue circle to stop spinning to indicate that the re set had been done.

Unfortunately, it didn't stop spinning so I gave up in the end so will see if Mr. S. has any success when he gets in.

Thank you for your replies. I haven't been able to share with anyone how abusive my daughter has been to me as I am ashamed. In other people's eyes she is the golden girl, lovely kind energetic teacher, always there for her friends and 2 children who are sociable and bright. Such an amazing person but to her mother she is unkind and ungrateful. She didn't show any love when I was in hospital and when I tried to talk to her about how traumatic it was she told me I was forever playing the " pity card".
I feel a failure as a mother not to have challenged her behaviour before and an still rewarding her with a car loan. When I look at what I have written today I think if it was a husband behaving like this then people would say it's domestic abuse leave him. But what do you do when it is your child who you have cared for 40 years ? Do you leave them ? At present I am distancing myself as self protection. My physical health isn't good and mentally I know I am very low in mood.

Thank DerbyshireLass. Hope the olive branch doesn't sprout thorns. And wonder what she wants? And at what cost to you! Me and my suspicious mind.

Hope it goes well and it's a genuine apology. ?

Whiff.....your post wasn't self indulgent, at least I didn't find it so. Sometimes we do need to write things down, just to get it all out of our heads and free up brain space. We can't reprogramme our thinking if our heads are crammed with ever circling thoughts. We need to break the cycle.

I think you are right our brains send all sorts of signals to our bodies, pain, discomfort, etc. I know my IBS and fibromyalgia are made worse by stress.

Well - are you ready for this.

I have just received an olive branch from my DIL. An apology for "being weird", an admission that she misses "hanging out with me" and an invitation to lunch.

Im gobsmacked.

Yes I shall accept the olive branch, admittedly with some trepidation but I'm happy to give it a whirl.

It's not often we get second chances in life......

DerbyshireLass do you preview what you have written before pressing post? I do but still see mistakes but not as many as there would have been . Great post by the way.

Apologies for my post earlier it was self indulgent. But if I don't get things out of my head they stay there .

Purplepixie estranged not only puts a strain on your mind but your brain somehow causes physical things to happen to your body. It's as if your brain can't compute what is happening with all these thoughts and decides right we will divert this else where hence headaches,upset tummies,aches and pains. Well that what I think. Probably completely wrong. Plus estranged is exhausting. And takes up a lot of your time and energy .

When my son sent all the presents ,cards etc back with that letter ending with zero contact. After a few days I realised it was a relief as I knew where I stood. And I could think straight and decide ok if that's what he wants his got it. My daughter had washed her hands of him when he sent both of us the email . Not because of what he said to her but because he hurt me so much. Like I said he just didn't throw me away but all over side of the family. Never had any to do with his dad's side apart from his grandmother.

Jaffacake2 sorry about your situation . And being in hospital as well . That's hard enough to cope with physically let alone having all this worry with your daughter. I can well understand why your younger daughter doesn't want anything to do with her older sister. She has seen how much you are hurting. As much as we want to protect our children our loving children what to protect us in turn. But our unloving ones just want to hurt us in anyway they can. You need to decide is it worth all the hurt she dishes out just to see your grandchildren.

I haven't lost just my son but 3 grandson's. The youngest I don't even know his name or exact date of birth. I was still in contact with my son before he was born and knew he was due in July 2020. I miss my son and grandson's every day. But I miss the son I knew not the son who wrote that email and letter. I don't know that son .

Being fully estranged gives you some closure you know where you stand and can move on from there. For me it was a weight lifted from my shoulders. I have wobbles but I am not having to deal with people who hate me. Even though my son said he loved me this is not love it's hate.

There is life after estrangement like there is after the death of your husband or partner or through divorce. It's just a different life. Not the life you imaged but a new life . And it's hard. When my husband died my present and future died to. So had to make a new present and future. Same having to live my life with only one of my children in it. But I have a wonderful daughter, son in law and 2 grandson's so I consider myself lucky. I see them every week. My daughter has already texted to check I am ok and my bungalow is still intact. Franklin hit us hard last night and still at it.

As much as I hated my mother in law after my husband died I couldn't abandoned her . Unfortunately she didn't mellow with age but got more vicious. My children and spouses knew her so they knew what I put up with . She was my husband's mom and the children's grandmother and as such family . I wasn't brought up to turn my back on family. We brought our children the same.

It's easy to be horrible it's an easy route to take. Being kind ,hard working and thoughtful to people who you don't like or who don't like you takes work . But you know what I would rather be who I am and have never taken the easy way out. Which makes me the better person . Estrangement doesn't break you just bends you but you can straighten up again. As bends can be straightened.
It just takes time . But all here have shown such courage in the face of over whelming odds . So Warrior Queens make sure your crowns are firmly on . They tilt from time to time but can be straightened. ?

Jaffacake......that's shocking ingratitude, after all you've done for her. As I said in my post it's not you, it's her, she's the one with the bad attitude. No matter what's gone wrong in your relationship she has no right to treat you like that.

She's a lucky girl to be lent the money interest free. Does she realise she would have paid through the nose if she had to borrow at commercial rates.

Sounds like clearly she doesn't appreciate your generosity. Maybe time for you to step back a little and let her stand on her own two feet in financial matters.

Hard I know because as a parent we want to help in any way we can but when that help is taken for granted and you are treated with such callous disrespect despite your best efforts to help then maybe it's time for her to learn some life lessons,

Gosh a lot of typos there. Sorry.,?. I really think GNHQ should let us go back and edit or correct our posts. .

Good Morning Everyone.

pixie. Sorry to hear you are feeling unwell, hope you managed to sleep well in the end. Prolonged stress does terrible things to the body, and it can take a long time to heal. We all need to work on our health - healthy eating, gentle exercise, rest, sleep, meditation, mindfulness.

I think we also need to do the "inner work" to try and change the way our brains work, to stop that awful inner chatter. Some might find counselling helpful .

I think it helps to remember that we aren't the ones who need "fixing". It is our EAC who are the ones with emotional or psychological issues, they are the ones who are behaving irrationally and demonstrating some level of disturbed behaviour.

Happy, rational, well balanced people don't estrange family or turn tail and run for cover when life throws a few curved balls their way. People who are emotionally intelligent face life's challenges head on.

As usual Shakespeare had it right.......

"To be or to be, that is the question? Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or, to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them.".......

It's pretty straight forward. Life will always send us slings and arrows, its how we respond that counts and which shows our true characters. Everyone is tested, no one goes Scot free, , none of us gets to live charmed lives forever.

It strikes me that it takes courage and fortitude to address those slings and arrows, something our EAC seem to lack. They can't or won't deal with whatever is confronting them so they look for a scapegoat. Parents are easy scapegoats.

Six months ago I was reeling from shock. I felt so sick I genuinely felt that I might have a heart attack or a stroke. For days I couldn't eat or sleep. I couldn't function. I wasn't suicidal but I began to wonder why in earth I was still living. There seemed so little point. Why was this happening, was I really a terrible person, what had I done to deserve this.

Eventually I decided enough was enough. I decided to take back control. I couldn't change the way I was being treated but I could change the way I responded. So I fought back.

I told my my DIL she was a bully, that her behaviour was unacceptable, that she was wasting her time trying to use emotional blackmail against me. You can guess her rage but I stood my ground and eventually she caved.

There have been further outbursts of course. I now simply treat them as toddler tantrums by ignoring them. If she then goes into kverdrkve by giving me the silent treatment well I ignore that too. I make no attempt them, the ball is in their court, I do not chase, I will not grovel, I will not abase myself. I trust myself with respect and behave with dignity.

For those who are not actually fully estranged I have found fhe
DEEP method extremely helpful.

Do Not .....

Defend
Engage
Explain
Personalise

In a nutshell......

Defending yourself only exacerbates the situation.
Engaging with them validates their behaviour.
Explaining is a waste of your time and energy.
Personalise - don't take this on you. It's not you, it's them.

Sounds easy enough, right. Well no, it isn't. It takes work but it's worth the effort. Going DEEP takes the heat out of a situation, it gives you a breathing space. It helps set boundaries. It teaches them that you are not a pushover or to be trifled with.

So far I have managed to avoid total estrangement. For two pins I would estrange them myself but I hang in there for my sons sake - for now.

However, if total estrangement happens, then it happens, but they will be the losers.

It is the estranged child who ultimately loses and it is their own children who will suffer the biggest loss.

Morning all,
I have been awake since 2 feeling sad about the change in relationship with my eldest daughter. It has been a difficult year with family arguments ending up with my youngest daughter saying she cannot cope with having her toxic sister in her life. They haven't spoken to each other in a year. I was caught in the middle at a difficult time as was in hospital twice. My youngest was kind and caring,her sister was not coping and suggested I went into sheltered accommadation. I never had any expectations that she would look after me as she is a single mum with 2 young children and works as a teacher. I know her life is stressful but felt her lack of empathy and unkind remarks were hurtful when I was vulnerable in hospital. I am single so no supportive husband around.
I have tried hard over last few months to rebuild some relationship with her and have had a short holiday at a family holiday park just before Christmas. But the last month has blown up again. Her car died a death and I lent her my car for 2 weeks ,travelling back from her home on the train. I then lent her money to buy another car. Instead of any gratitude I have had a lot of abuse thrown at me about me being self absorbed and uncaring as a mother. I now feel shutdown to her and really only want contact so I see my grandchildren. I think if it was just her then I would not want to see her at all.
I can't understand how she can still rant at me after all i have done to support her. It is like she has reverted back to being a stroppy teenager again.

One of the things my son said in his email was stop saying you wish dad was here. I well do wish my husband was here every minute of every day for 18 years. I hope my children never know the heart break of having your husband or wife die at 47. I have always talked about their dad and they have always talked about him. So why did he write that? I have always talked to my grandson's well the 4 I know about him since they where babies. I remember holding each on and saying your grandad would love you to bits but I will love you twice as much so you never miss out on that love.

My daughter and sons relationship has been strained for years. Due to my daughter in law. But when I was with both couples they made sure I had a good time with them. You know I don't think we have been altogether since my mom's funeral 2017.

My daughter always asked if I had a good time with my son and his family but my son never asked back. My daughter in law always made snide comments about my daughter.

Even though I didn't like my brother's 2 nd wife I never treated her badly and my husband hated her but he was always pleasant and chatty with her. She was my brother's wife and was family.

It's strange all the cracks where there for years but it wasn't until I moved here that I realised how deep they where. But I was just happy to see and be with my son and grandson's. At first when I moved here my daughter in law was helpful and she made me the most beautiful crochet blanket as a welcome to your new home gift. It must have taken her months. So why do that if she hated me so much? Boxing day 2019 they where here and she sat crocheting and only talked to me if I asked a question. But I was happy to be with them. I had missed so much of grandson's early years.

I sometimes wonder if my son would have thrown me away if Covid hadn't happened . Was Covid the perfect excuse to decide what don't I need in my life. I know I don't need my mom anymore she is past her best before date. I moved here in August 2019 and had my first full blown seizure in the October which landed me in hospital just over night. My daughter took me to my GP and he sent me to hospital. November my son took me to A&E as my daughter and family where aboard on holiday. He stayed with me straight from work until 4.30am when he brought me home. December my brother and sister in law where here just as lunch was about to be served I began to start to feel strange and by the time we got to A&E my seizures where out of control. I still remember the look for fear on their faces. Mind you when booking me in it had its funny moments because my speech was effected he had to answer for me. But he called me by my maiden name and forgot my date of birth. My daughter came not long after we got there.

But it was my son who took me to see the neurologist in January 2020 he offered and I asked him to come in with me and he talked to the neurologist. May 2019 he had taken me to St George's hospital in London to see a specialist in abnormal body movements. He offered to take me.

Every time I saw a doctor pre Covid if either of my children took me I always had them come in with me as I didn't hide anything about my health. As they made me promise to always tell them if I wasn't well. And once they left home to text daily to let them know how I was.

That's another thing my son complained about in his email. He said my texting everyday was ridiculous. And yet I was only doing what I had promised them I would do. My daughter has never said that and texts me everyday to make sure I am ok.

When he came on my birthday did he deliberately give me a good time as he must have known he was going to send that email 4 days later. If so why did he talk about doing things in my garden to make it safer for me.

Trouble is I wake early and if I have had my sleep out . I can't get back to sleep so been awake since 4.40 this morning. The storm has been raging all night but didn't keep me awake. At least the storm force winds has dried all the rain up. And reading your posts makes me think hence you end up with all my thoughts . But it helps me to write it down because it gets those thoughts out of my head and I don't stew over them the rest of the day. I know I could bore the hind legs off a donkey. But if my husband was alive we would talk but then again if he hadn't died he wouldn't have put up with what I have.

He was rubbish when it came to he's parents but he would never give up on them and I had to fight my own battles with them . But woe betide anyone else who upset me. He would fight dragons for me. When I became ill at 29 I asked him if he wanted me to leave he told me he loved me and he married me in sickness and in health. I wasn't going anywhere and we would alter our life to what I could do so we could have a normal family life. Hence my using a wheelchair when we went out as a family as my walking was so bad. My darling husband never had road rage but he did have wheelchair rage. Anyone cut in front of me he went for them. I used to say I didn't want a lap ornament.

Being in a wheelchair you see the world as a child would view it from a buggy and other wheel chair uses. I was lucky I wasn't permanently in a wheelchair. This started in 1988. People could still smoke in malls and shops. I saw how dangerous that was it made me wonder how many children and wheelchair uses got burn by a cigarette. Also I found being a wheelchair people assumed I couldn't speak for myself and if they noticed you they looked away quickly.

Because I had an uncle with downs we where brought up with the fact people have disabilities and health problems. My children where only 4 and 6 months when I got ill. Went to bed woke up unable to control my limbs. Not warning it just happened. So they grew up knowing people have health problems and always thought it made them able to cope with anything life would throw at them. Also their friends had a better understanding. My grandson's have grown up with the fact they have a nannie who's different. That I am not always well and walk with a stick. My son's and my daughter's eldest loved playing with my stick. My daughter's eldest asked me why I don't do and he moved his arms like they justed when I had the jerks as I called them . I haven't had them for 2 years or a full blown seizure thanks to my neurologist and 2 tablets but he remembered his 4 now. My son's eldest used to copy me when they happened he thought it was funny.
I am glad my grandson's where never frightened by them .

As I have bored the pants off you better close. Will need to check my roof when it gets lighter. Stay safe everyone. ?

Hi all. I haven’t been on here for a few days as I have had the headaches from hell. My youngest son thinks that it is all the strain from falling out with my eldest son via that phone call on 20th December plus not seeing or hearing from my daughter in 7 years. I did manage to get back to my knitting today and sewed together 2 dog blankets for Battersea dogs/cats home and felt a lot better. Putting more effort into things that matter and training my brain away from things that cannot be changed and therefore - dont matter. Not easy.

My daughters two daughters are coming to stay on saturday night and I need to embrace the things that I can have and enjoy.

I never thought for one minute that those two cute elder kids that I had would wish me out of their lives the way that they have.

Yesterday I was trying to make up a poem with the words that kept swirling around my head. Here goes:

I sit alone and wonder why
My eldest son makes me cry

The rest to follow……………..

Well, I will go back to bed and try and get some sleep. What nice things do you all think about while trying to get to sleep?

Night night x

In some nightclubs, airports, posh hotels etc you will see areas that are cordoned off by a red rope. These areas are reserved for VIPs.

Well that's what I mean by my red rope velvet rope policy. It is just something I have adopted for myself. I have drawn a metaphorical red rope around myself, which only my "special people" are allowed to cross. It's purely a self preservation thing,

My "special people" are the ones who I can trust, who love me, who have my back and who truly care about me, who won't judge me, or twist my words or wilfully misinterpret my actions or intentions, or who will seize upon my weaknesses to use to their advantage. My special people accept me for who I am.

Sadly my son and DIL are no longer allowed to cross my red velvet rope, because I no longer trust them, They have demonstrated that they don't truly care about me or my other son and that they don't have my best interests at heart.

Therefore although I allow them into my life I do keep them at arms length, I do not reveal my plans, my thoughts or my innermost feelings to them. They have forfeited that right,

Actually I enjoy cooking and love nothing more than having friends and family gathered round my table, enjoying good food, wine and happy conversations. But as I said before I have learned that I need to be on top form to cope with my DIL so that I can keep my wits about me and not fall into the traps she tries to set. And that means not getting too tired.

So today I decided to cheat a little to conserve my energy, Rather than chopping, slicing and dicing and cooking everything from scratch, spending hours in the kitchen I took some short cuts by buying some pre-prepared potato dishes and vegetables and by buying a dessert rather than making one myself,

I learned a lot from my husband and one of his favourite sayings was "why have a dog and bark yourself". In other words sometimes it's best to delegate and save your time and energy for the really important stuff.

My grandchildren certainly enjoyed their lunch, especially the little one who is just an eating machine. ?. And there's plenty of leftovers so I can enjoy a cooking free day tomorrow. (Today, lol).

I've never heard of Mrs Caldicots Cabbage Wars, but the title alone is fabulous. I must investigate.

Oh dear, that lunch sounds like hard work DSL - but the food sounds excellent. I know someone that only talks about themself and it can get very draining. What is a 'red velvet rope policy?' I'm rubbish at all this lingo.

Sounds like your exercises are doing you the world of good Whiff. An hour's class is really impressive. We have started gentle tai chi but I can only manage 10 mins a day so far. 20 done really slowly on a good day.

That last paragraph of yours really resonates with me DSL - I have such astonishment at how much they can change. It's like a different person.

And yes *
They have to be not only the centre of their own universe, but have to be centre of everyone else's too, and they really can't see it!! * - I see this in spades smiles

Late start for me, wasn't well enough to get up till almost lunchtime, which drives me nuts. But I managed to do a bit of sewing and process some photos as well as the usual pottering around.

I did have to bite my tongue a couple of times......?.

It is galling though. I always ask about their work, their lives etc.and without fail, I always ask DIL about her family. But here's the thing, neither my son nor DIL ever ask about my youngest son or my sister - the only family my son has. What really hurts me though is my son never even mentions his late father, it's as if he never existed.

The two brothers haven't seen each other in almost year, despite the younger one repeatedly making overtures. My youngest son has now given up after being frequently rejected or passed over. I know he's been very hurt by this and his girlfriend is furious on his behalf,

I do think it's extremely telling that DIL has no female friends, I don't think it's a good sign. It says a lot about a person.

I just don't understand why some people think friends and family are expendable and how they can just toss people aside. My son never used to be like this. He was always outgoing, warm, friendly, sociable. He was universally liked. Mr Popularity in fact. Not any more. His loss. One day he will wake up and realise he is alone, cut off from family and left with few friends, isolated and adrift.

This is why I hang in there....

Never heard of that film Whiff but if it's about a mother turning the tables on her son and d.i.l. I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

Glad you survived the visit DSL. You did the right thing making the meal as easy for yourself as possible. You know, it's incredible isn't it. Once you know what you're looking for it's so obvious.

They have to be not only the centre of their own universe, but have to be centre of everyone else's too, and they really can't see it!! So wrapped up in talking about themselves they hardly notice when the person/people they are with don't do the same .
As long as they are being listened too, that's all that matters.

As you say, you got to see your son and GC and I'm really pleased for you, and pleased it went as well as it did.

DerbyshireLass glad you got through today. And gave really good advice . I knew you would be able to help My3sons as you are an expert of handling your daughter in law and your son.

Madgran my exercise class is called active ageing it's run by my council. It's by GP referral which while I was talking to my GP she sent the letter while she was talking to me . Couple of days later had phone call then interview as they have different classes for different abilities. I started in June. 12 weeks free and then £2.50 per class after that. From June until December the class was mainly sit down exercises using a residence band of some exercises which they give you. First a green one then they change it for a pink one after a few weeks . We did some stand up exercises holding onto the back of a chair and walking exercises. Those that are able got into the maintenance class which is the one I am in now. Only do a couple of exercises sitting down the rest we do standing up and it's full on. We always have 2 instructors. In my class now once we start exercising we don't stop . While we do an exercise one instructor shows us the next exercise then we go straight into when she tells us to. The class lasts a hour then hot drink and biscuits plus chat for 30-40 mins. And I love it. My husband would laugh his socks off me liking exercise.

My GP, cardiologist and neurologist have noticed a vast improvement in my health . And my daughter has noticed a difference . She laughed the other day as we where talking about exercising. She said where's my mom and what have you done with her. ?

Oops that last bit should have been edited out. Does anyone know how to do it.

Hello everyone,

Hello Blogsy and. My3sons, welcome to the thread. Hope you find it helpful. We are a warm and friendly bunch on here, so I hope you find the comfort, support and encouragement you need to get you through what is a truly horrible time,

Blogsy......sounds like you are finding yourself in the position of piggy jn the middle, not a nice place to be. However, it's good that your DIL wants to stay in your life and that you get to see your grandchildren. I can appreciate you're walking a tightrope but if you can pull it off it will be a job well done.

my3sons......you and I are at a sImilar stage, living in limbo, neither fully estranged nor enjoying a healthy and relaxed relationship with your AC and partner.

I too lost my husband and my parents in short order, so I know what you are going through. It's tough but we get through it.

What I found maddening, upsetting and soul destroying was, just when was I dealing with grief and loss, that is when my son and DIL began with their nonsense. Like a fool I kept quiet when I should have nipped their bad behaviour in the bud and set up strong boundaries. I didn't.

Like an idiot I kept ignoring the red flags, hoping things would improve. Of course they didn't because true to the old saying "give them an inch and they take a mile".

Both of you have had some very good advice already, but it does no harm to repeat it, Its time to fight back, to reclaim your authentic selves, no more eggshells, no more kowtowimg, no caving in to emotional blackmail.

Focus your love and attention to the people who DO love you, who cherish you and who care about you. Don't prostrate yourselves at the feet of those who would so easily toss you aside like a piece of rubbish,

I know now that my DIL is a fully fledged malignant narcissist who controls and manipulates my son. I have made it my business to learn as much as I can and learn coping strategies.

Today was a classic example.

They came for lunch. I hadn't seen them since Christmas Day, when my DIL behaved very badly and I have been on the receiving end of the silent treatment since then. Then, out of the blue, yesterday they invited themselves here today. I felt like declining but I decided that would be cutting my nose off to spite my face so I acquiesced.

My DIL is an energy vampire, she always leaves me feeling drained and exhausted so today I took practical steps to keep the lunch menu simple so that I wouldnt get overtired. If I am tired I am less able to handle her. I need to be strong and have my wits about me,

I bought pre-prepared bung in the oven potato dishes, vegetables and Yorkshire puddings. , The joint was cooked in the slow cooker, dessert was shop bought profiteroles. All easy and simple.

Once again they were true to form. As long as the conversation centres around them they are happy. They didn't ask one single question about me, nor did they even mention my other son (their brother and brother in law). It's surreal, it's as if he doesn't exist.

I keep the conversation light and bland, always focussed on them and their doings. I reveal nothing about myself, .I have learned it is better to play my cards close to my chest. That way I don't supply them with ammunition to use against me at a later date. I say nothing which can be deliberately misinterpreted or twisted.

I don't go as far as "greyrocking" but I do maintain a firewall. I call it my "red velvet rope policy".

I keep my expectations low. I am fully aware that today was a "duty visit". Not a nice feeling if I'm honest, but I am realistic. A duty visit means I do at least get to occasionally see my son and grandchildren.

Whiff......glad you are ok. You are obviously getting stronger. Well done you, all the exercise is paying dividends.

Take care all.....stay safe, warm and dry. ?❤️



They came for lunch I al so think she might have issues with Bi Polar.

I recommend Mrs Caldicots Cabbage Wars too.

Whiff are the exercises from a physiotherapist?

I do Pilates weekly in a class and several days a week at home, after a very bad back injury and the benefits for core strength and also joint strength have been phenomenal. Pilates/Physio exercises seem quite similar judging by what my daughter has been advised by a physio due to a knee problem.

I will keep an eye out for the film, thanks. I like Pauline Collins and John Alderton!

Madgran it was on channel five. Stars Pauline Collins and John Allterton .

The exercises are doing me good and haven't used my stick during class since they started again in January. My stability is better and my limbs are getting stronger.