Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

I have commented on the "pregnant daughter" thread re the Support Thread and also said that I think my own and several other posts may be deleted as I believe that in the GN rules it says that other threads should not be discussed in threads!

Smileless ...grey hairs ...definitely something not worth worrying about in the great scheme of things!!

Unresolved issues perhaps Whiff but as you say there's no need for it and it doesn't get you any where.

So stop worrying about those grey hairs x

Smiles I read it and your response . Thank you.

I will never understand why people want to be nasty . Naive I know. Even when I need to complain about something I am nice about it. What's the point of shouting and swearing at people gets you no where. If you are calm and pleasant you get things resolved. My approach must work as I have connection and delivery charges waived on lots of things.

I have a temper but what's the point of losing it. Wasted energy.

At these the storm seems to be over for the time being. Yogin hope you haven't sustained anymore damage.

Don't worry Whiff, I have been posting there and saw that another poster has just given a very good response; worth a look.

To anyone here who has been reading the pregnant and abusive daughter thread. Please ignore the dig at this thread.

This is a safe happy place to be I would hate to fight GN to keep any of you from being suspended. Just ignore the dig.

As much as I want to reply I won't give the person the satisfaction. To get me deleted or suspended.

Got enough grey hairs ?.

I remember a very good friend of ours reading the worse email we ever go from our ES hugshelp. She said if she didn't know better, she'd swear it had been written by a mad man.

You're right Whiff, there is a lot of common sense here. Your friend sounds like my brother, a very intelligent man but no common sense whatsoever!!

You've saved the best 'till last; found your courage when you needed it the most. To carry on without your DH, support your in laws despite the way they'd behaved, finished raising your children alone and make the most of every day and everything you do have, despite the pain that estrangement has brought to your door.

Oh dear Yogin I hope you'll be able to get that roof sorted out today, even if it's a temporary solution. We were lucky, but it was still pretty scary.

Mr. S. moved our two palms to the back of our roof terrace because we were worried they'd break at the base. Would have been upsetting if they'd been damaged as we've been growing them from when we first moved in.

You and Whiff are a couple of early birds; we're just the opposite. If we want to be up before 8.00 am, we have to set the alarm.

Looks like you're an early bird like me Whiff. I was awake before 5am this morning, managed to stay in bed till 5.30am and then needed that morning cuppa. Ok to get up early in the summer when it's light, but I walk round with a lantern [present from one of my 1-2-1s years back] as I don't like putting the big lights on first thing.

Well contrary to my saying South East wouldn't be hit as hard, we had 90mph winds and 80 trees felled!! I went to the park early morning and it was frightening, nearly blown off my feet!

The roof felt was blown off our garden studio, so need to replace that today, my little dogs grooming was cancelled and a friend that was flying in from Spain and said she would pop in on her way to her dads in Hullbridge, didn't make the visit as her plane was delayed by hours, but at least she landed here safely.

How did everyone else fair?

Hugshelp it's horrible having a letter or email because it's something you have in black and white. If they say something to your face they can always deny saying it but once it's written down they can't there is no denying what they have said. I suppose like me you read it over and over and know parts off by heart. And your son like mine has selected memory and has re written history.

What I love about all here and the previous support threads is how much common sense everyone has. That's another thing that seems lacking. Good old fashioned common sense. I have a friend very intelligent but hasn't got an once of common sense we have been friends for over 50 years.

With all these storms I worry all the more about my son he is a HGV driver . So many lorries have over turned in these winds. Every time I see a picture I have to check which company is on the side.

Hopefully you are getting through the storms without any damage and power loss.

Had a piece of good news yesterday my brother and sister in law finally had the offer accepted on the bungalow they wanted. It's a done deal as they brought it by the modern method of auction. So they will be moving in a few weeks .

Smiles you always make me smile with your posts. Thank you when I was younger I never thought I was very brave but looking back I must have been to cope with everything life has thrown at me. Just a pity I wasn't brave when I was at school and would have beaten my bullies at their own game. But then again our experiences make us the people we are today.

Stay safe everyone. ?

That's just horrible Whiff. People put such cruel things on the internet without a thought that once it's there it's for the whole world to see.

I don't understand all this bitterness and anger either DSL. I don't want to play the old 'in my day ' tune, but seriously there's no comparison with the hardships I know many of my generation and before suffered- and usually with stoicism and a sense of humour.

I'm similar to you whiff in that I am proud of what our ES has achieved but not of how he has been acting in recent years. He said in his letter that he is very successful at work but not at relationships, and of course he seems to blame me for that. But honestly, if he talks to people even slightly in the same tone as the letter I got he will be pushing them away.

I see so much anger amongst young people but also a lot of unhappiness and they don't seem to see that if you hit out in anger all the time (verbally) and push people away all the material things in the world won't fill the holes left where you've got no sense of community with others.

Your comment about a cake without a cherry being better than no cherry seems spot on to me smiles. It really does seem that if they can't have everything exactly as they want all the time they can't cope. Another thing my ES said in his letter was about trying to express what he wants from others better because he either doesn't get what he wants or gets really angry. [He has been working with a therapist for a long time so does know there are things he's struggling with]. But he seems to think he just has to find the right way to persuade ppl to do what he wants - there was no suggestion that actually they might be ok to say no.

I do feel for him, because I could tell his thinking his really unhealthy but I can't help him because he is too angry to let me try.

A friend rang today and I told her about the letter and she was aghast. She has kids of a similar age and we spent a lot of time together when they were small and she said she can't understand how he says any of the things he does. DH just said 'He's * insane.' I really do worry about his state of mind. But I don't know how you are supposed to deal with someone who sees the world so differently to everyone else and thinks you're the ones who won't accept the truth.

But we are stronger than they are because we face things head on. And don't run away from our problems - this in spades Whiff.
It seems to me that when we have a problem we try to work out what we can do to fix it, whereas some AC try to work out who to blame and expect them to fix it. I think you're right about the work ethos as well Whiff. It stands you in good stead for relationships as well as the other things in life.

When you can't admit to, face up to your own failings and shortcomings, project them on to someone else. - yes I think that's exactly what the problem is smiles.

Well the weather has been a dodgy here, but not nearly as bad as some places. I've had a day writing and making pies. Going to bob over with our DDs share tomorrow - there's supposed to be a break in the wind before it comes back on Sunday, though plenty of rain. So that'll be both our freezers stocked with pastries.

Flying solo when you've been part of a team must be very hard Whiff, especially when it comes to moving and health issues. It's great that you're receiving such good health care and that must help to put your mind at rest.

Even without knowing the results of your echocardiogram, I'm pretty sure it will show you have a big, courageous and strong heart that's full of love.

Anything in life that's worth having is worth working/fighting for so I suppose the harsh and heart breaking truth is that as far as our EAC are concerned, we just aren't worth it.

Try not to worry Yogin, we can easily be over faced but tend to get there in the end, and you will too. As Whiff said, this is a new beginning, a new chapter in your life. You've done the really hard bit, buying, selling and moving so just take your time and deal with one thing at a time.

You'll have to buy a new TV aerial lead and of course once you do, we all know what will happen, you'll find the other one but at least you'll have a spare.

When you can't admit too, face up to your own failings and shortcomings, project them on to someone else. Make your parent(s) the scapegoat, just like the Jewish chief priest would do. Having symbolically laid the sins of the people onto the poor unfortunate beast, it was left to wander the desert until it died.

Yogin you think selling and buying a new home is the end . But its just the start. Just get the things that need doing urgently first the rest you can take your time over. I spent the first year sleeping in my spare room with a lot of furniture that was between the 2 bedrooms. Wasn't until my bedroom was ready did I finish emptying boxes. Took until just before Christmas to get the bungalow finished I moved August 2019.
Hope you find the TV aerial lead.

I will never understand why children turn on loving parents. I suppose it's easier for them to make us the villains they are poor innocent children who need to protect our grandchildren against us. When in fact we are the victims of their lies ,hatred and indifference.

But we are stronger than they are because we face things head on. And don't run away from our problems. We just deal with them. And live full lives. They can't break us. We get bent but straight up again and carry on. Lot here are of an age where we had nothing handed to us we had to work and make sacrifices to get what we have . Technology is great but it's made life to easy for the young. What to know something Google it. Not spend hours in the library pouring over text books and researching. Hard work never hurt anyone. Relationships take work. It's to easy to walk away. I know from here and other parts of the support thread none of us has taken the easy way out. And that's something to be proud of.

Just come on to read the posts after a couple of days not having time to come on and to say the same as Whiff stay safe in these storms everyone.

Thought after a couple of weeks of moving I'd get to relax and not worry about things, but now worrying about what to do re shed base, so expensive. The garden studio/shed is leaking, so need to put a new roof on as stuffed everything we could in there and it's all getting damp! My poor dinning table still out in the garden Cannot locate the aerial lead, so no TV.

I couldn't stomach going on that Reddit forum. As Whiff said the lies are believed. We mums on here all clearly loved our AC to bits, so why they have turned on us in such a ferocious way is unfathomable. We loved their C our GC to bits as well, you would think that would be a lovely thing to behold, but no, they decided that relationship had to be destroyed! Why?

DerbyshireLass hope you are feeling better this morning. But glad you have got your plans for the future. After being a couple and thinking as a team it's hard making all the decisions on your own. But we do it as we owe that to our other halves.

Moving house gave me a new life which I am living to the full. No longer just existing. Mind you selling and buying is stressful and anyone wanting to do you are in for a bumpy ride but it's all worth it. A house is only bricks and mortar . You make it a home. Memories go with you. I found after getting rid of all clutter I love my pared done life. Living in a bungalow has made life easier and takes no time to clean and bills are cheaper.

Smiles had echocardiogram before don't know why I just said heart scan as I know the correct term. Also had a bubble echo. But not worried as worrying about something I have no control over is pointless. My heart MRI showed the connections between the chambers of my heart had no abnormalities and I have strong heart function. On Flecainide and Apixaban for life. But don't miss as many heart beats as I did and my heart doesn't run away with itself everyday .

Had my appointment come yesterday with the urologist on the 1st been waiting a year for that appointment but haven't had a UTI or kidney infection since May. But between September and then had 16 courses of antibiotics because of them. Both appointments at the same hospital a week apart. Never had such good health care since moving that's another big plus about my move.

Allsorts I know how hard you have had it with your daughter but glad you feel you can move on . Why is it our estranged children think they can treat us so badly especially as we get older. Do they think we need them to look after us? Which we don't. They forget we had lives before we had them . And we have lives after they throw us away. Do they think we will just crumble and do everything just to keep them in our lives. If my son did make contact again which I doubt he won't find the mom he knew . He will have a lot of questions to answer but he will never be trusted again . He destroyed that and will never be forgiven. But I can't switch of the fact I love him but the love I feel is the love for the son I knew . But he can't get away from the fact he has a mom and his boys are my grandson's. He can fight against it all he likes it's a fact. For all my daughter in law has shown how much she hates me I don't hate her. Had enough of that in my life to last a lifetime from my in laws. Don't want it nor need it.

Have wobbles like we all do. But we keep going not easy but we owe it to ourselves and those who love us . Warrior Queens crowns firmly on. Ready to face the next challenge.

Hope you are all surviving these storms . Staying in again today. Hopefully you all have power and don't have any property damage. More storms on the way next week.

Take care everyone and stay safe.

Yes, he's one in a million Allsorts.

It is lovely when we see everything waking up from a long winter's sleep. I love snow drops. Let's hope Eunice doesn't cause too much damage.

All the best for your heart scan Whiff, sure it will all be well.
Smileless glad you’ve got Mr S he really does support and care for you.
DL you’re doing well, it’s a difficult path you're on.
Got a lot of pleasure today, just looking at the garden, with the snowdrops and crocus out, everything’s coming into bud but too soon, there nothing better than the colours of spring. Hope Eunice goes as quick as it comes, awful weather lately.

Not getting what you want for Christmas you couldn't make that up could you hugshelp. I'll have to try and remember that the next time I see it being suggested to an EP that they 'must have done something'. Yep, they could have bought the wrong gift!!.

Egg donors it's no wonder that for some EP's they realise that they're actually better off without their EAC DSL. I don't understand some of the bitterness, anger and resentment either.

Perhaps for some, estrangement hasn't given them the closure and peace they hoped for. No longer having someone in your life that you want nothing to do with, must surely bring some comfort but perhaps not enough.

A sense of entitlement does appear to be an overriding issue in estrangements but that does often strike me as odd. You can be estranged because you weren't a good enough parent, and yet by being estranged means you can't be a parent at all.

A cake without the icing and a cherry on top, may not be as a good as a cake that has both, but surely it's better than no cake at all.

It does you good to have a few treats. Will you be relaxing this evening in your new lounge wear with perhaps a and maybe a few chocs?

Waking up with that feeling must be very draining. A living nightmare; I'm so sorry .

What happened to you on Reddit was truly horrible Whiff and why? What possible satisfaction could someone get from writing such vile things about another human being, let alone their m.i.l., their H's mother.

Do they think that we just popped them out and then had no input, no part whatsoever in raising them to be the young men they were, when they fell in love with them, before they changed them beyond all recognition?

I'm thinking it's good news about your heart scan appointment. Are you worried? You're so strong and stoical but it can't be easy.

You did the right thing staying in, I've done the same although Mr. S. braved the elements to take the dogs out which TBF hasn't been too bad here sine mid morning. In fact, we have a sunny blue sky and calm blue sea at the moment, but not sure how long that will last.

Allsorts re focusing is hard, it takes time but it is doable. I know what you mean about making plans that had things been different, you wouldn't have had to make.

DS is so far away in Aus. and we've accepted that that's where he'll stay because he's happy and of course, that's all that matters so, we're really on our own but we do have one another.

It’s a horrible feel dl and at least I know for me there’s no going back to it, you have to view life completely differently. Your c are always not far away in your mind, most of what we do is for them , they came first then. when you realise that’s over, never to come back you have to change attitude to survive and re focus. It’s survival, I’ve made plans now I wouldn’t have done before because I have no safety net that having family gives you, it’s mutual you’re there for them you think when needed it’s reciprocated. I will get anxious at times, but my children were a gift which I loved, I have no rights. The estranged child just didn’t feel as I did.

Lovely post Whiff. So much as changed hasn't it. My wedding was small and frugal too. Today weddings have become an orgy of spending, the amount some spend on a wedding is as much as a deposit on a house..

Whiff Don't blame you staying at home safe and sound. The wind has died down here this morning but the worst is set to be tomorrow, when Eunice hits. Apparently an amber alert for tomorrow,. I was reading how many trees have been lost this winter due to such high winds.

Woke up feeling mildly anxious again this morning,thinking about my son and DIL. As soon as I open my eyes I start thinking about them, wondering what will happen next. When will they estrange me. I'm pretty certain it's "when"and not "if".

Hey ho. Just need to stay calm and focussed, keeping busy and trying to stop the brain whirr. Worrying won't solve anything,

Looking forward to spring.......nearly there.

For all my son has turned his back on me . I am proud of what he and my daughter in law have achieved through hard work and sacrifices. They own their house out right brought from housing association in a shocking state. Had builders in for 10 weeks plus all the hard work they have both done on it. The garden was a jungle which they made in a beautiful place with fruit trees and veg patch. Large lawn area for my grandson's to play.

But not proud of the way I have been treated. I will never understand why I became the enemy and disposal. Dread to think of what they will say about me when my grandson's are older and if they ask. Just hope they don't tell them I am dead.
They treat their dogs better than they have treated me.

DerbyshireLass I well remember a time my dad had to go away to work as local work dried up. But also remember coming home from school on my 9th birthday and mom saying there was a present in the front room and it was my dad. Normally he was only home on a Saturday and went back on a Sunday. He hid his the car in another road . Luckily he only had to do it for a few months and got a better job local.

Not long after we got married the mortgage rate went to 15%. But going without meant it was always paid. Brought our first house in 1980 married a year later. I was brought up to save so only needed a £12,500 mortgage the house was £15,250 and we used my savings. With my parents did all the catering for our wedding . Hired the church hall. From when we got engaged mom and dad brought wines and spirits when on offer. We even had champagne for our wedding toast. Remember party 7's. We got engaged when I was 18 married when I was 23. So plenty of time for getting the booze in. Mom and dad paid for the food . Being savvy got everything on the cheap. We paid for everything else.

But if course no son of theirs was getting married without it being properly catered for. My in-laws had to eat their words as my father in law said it was the best wedding and food he had ever had. My mother in law got blind drunk on my dad's homemade wines .

Both couples worked to a budget for their weddings and refused my offer of help. It wouldn't have been much as limited funds. So I brought my children's wedding outfits. Both wonderful days and my mom attended both and had ball.

I know some estranged children have been helped financially by their parents but am proud of the fact both couples got everything they have got by themselves with no help from me . If my husband had lived we would probably have offered but doubt they would have accepted. Both couples aren't frightened of hard work and long hours.

Just seems it's to much like hard work to have a relationship with his mom and mother in law.

I got my appointment for a scan on my heart yesterday. Told my daughter when it was and time. Had text back I sorry can't take you mom. I said didn't expect her to . Her reply yes but I always offer if I can. Said how much it means to me she cares so much. My son used to be like that .

Have decided I am staying in today . Not going to my craft group . The winds are to high. Didn't put my bin out yesterday as it would have been blown over. Noticed no one has put theirs out either . At least everything is safely put away and nothing to blow about outside.

Hopefully you can all stay safely inside for the next couple of days as Dudley and Eunice hit us.

Just had a quick look on Reddit. Some nasty stuff on there. And yes, I agree, some pretty flimsy excuses for estrangement.

Do they think it's clever or witty to refer to their mothers as "Egg Donors". Puerile.

I don't really understand why our ACs (most of whom seem to in their 30s and 40s, in other words millennials) are so bitter, so resentful and angry. Why are they so unhappy, so grudging and so quick to punish others for the slightest transgression, real or imagined, by going down the estrangement route. Why do they give up and run away instead of confronting the issues that they face.

One of the things that has shocked me most about my son and DIL is the overwhelming sense of entitlement they have displayed. Why do our ACs think they get to call the shots, dictating terms and issuing ultimatums, then estranging their parents because we won't comply with their demands,

I know that modern life is very stressful, job insecurity is all too common and that many millennials are not yet financially secure, but most of them will be in the not too distant future.

Are they really that hard done by, with their cosseted childhoods, university educations, and a world of opportunity at their feet. Do they really think they have had it worse than their parents (austerity post war years and the early 50s, the strikes and 3 day weeks of the 70s, the rampant inflation and 3m unemployed during the 80s) and God forbid what their grandparents endured, , (30s Depression, WW2)

Its not something that many people think about in abstract terms but the truth is within the next 20 years or so we are going to witness the biggest transfer of inter generational wealth ever seen in human history.

Each generation slowly but surely got richer throughout the 20th C. That wealth has steadily accumulated and is set to cascade down to the millennials over the next couple of decades.

Even those who don't inherit directly from parents will still benefit from the extra money sloshing around Western economies. The process has already begun and it will accelerate over the next couple of decades.

Yes I know that a lot of millennials are struggling to get on the property ladder and that realistically it takes two salaries to fund a family these days. It is wholly understandable that they feel left behind because it's taking them longer to launch but it doesn't excuse the jealousy, rage and bitterness and the feelings of entitlement which seems to be one of the driving forces in the rush to estrange from their parents.

How does estrangement help them. What do they actually achieve. By estranging from their families, they cut off the once source of help and support that could make their lives easier.

Weathers been pretty rough here all day although I managed to get to Asda before the rain set in. Treated myself to a few bits and bobs, new pj's , some loungewear and a few new accessories for the house.

My daughter in law ripped me to shreds on Reddit. She trolled me on a house and home thread. June 2020 I was staying with my daughter and family as having lot of work done on my bungalow new shower room ,my bedroom re plastered etc. I had written about my son's email as I had been on the thread since March 2019 and didn't pluck up the courage to openly post on support thread. But had sent PMs to Smiles. I have pain flares usually my arm or leg but sometimes both. While at my daughter's it was both. My user name is what my husband called me so both my children always knew what it was. Any way this first time poster came on and said her grandson had read something on Reddit that sound like my daughter in law. Because I was in so much pain and hadn't got my suspicious head on I pressed the link she posted. 2 sentences where enough for me and in tears past my phone to my daughter. She read the lot but would only tell what she thought was hilarious as she described my daughter as unemployable. She has a 2.1 BA Hons in Politics and her job before having her eldest she managed 4 management teams and had a budget of million pounds for student recruitment at the uni she worked for. But I do know what my daughter in law wrote as a friend of mine read it and I asked her what she had said. She had been writing about me long before I moved to live closer to both families.

Which both of my children had wanted me to do for years as they worried about me being 3 hours away.

What got me people believed her and said horrible things about me. My friend couldn't believe what she was reading as she knows me very well.

Social media can be a good thing like the support given on here and the other support threads before this one . And other threads on GN. But it's seems Reddit is a place for vindictive people to go too vent their spleen.

Yeah, I went on Reddit once Allsorts and the reasons people were giving for estranging their families were appalling eg not getting the Christmas gift they wanted.

I think society is breaking down. We are economic units, not people - to be productive and to spend. The fostering of community spirit has long gone.

There certainly seems to be a strong sense of entitlement hugshelp and I think it's fuelled by social media. All those adverts about equity release; giving some money to your AC and or GC.

Discontent if an AC knows or believes a sibling has been given more money than they have, or was left more in their parents will. How much they're loved depending on how much money they're given or left, how much practical assistance they receive.

Apologies demanded, sometimes with not being told what you're supposed to be apologising for, sometimes for something you never said or did but that doesn't matter, because it's 'their truth' and that's all that matters.

I know the aforementioned looks OTT but these are all examples I've seen here on GN over the years.

Only ever looked on estrangement on Reddit twice Allsorts and you need a strong stomach and nerves of steel for some of the content on there.

The indifference from some is unfathomable and the anger and bitterness from others is quite shocking.

I think if you did as I did this morning it would open your eyes. I had heard someone on here mention Reddit, I clicked on and then estrangement and you wouldn’t believe the young adults, some not so young, who walked away from families because they felt no bond with them, no abuse or anything, basically they didn’t click or a series of petty things. Didn’t appear to be any inclination to re stables contact. It makes you wonder if they would be disappointed if their children were the same or would they happily just think, jobs done.We used to put up with a lot and count to ten, odd mutter, if told repeatedly how this was better than that, but wouldn’t have dreamt of a o dining them, even the aunt that never broke a smile or was mean, was included in family events.. it’s a different generation.