Repairing estrangement

"Except! Many Claim! In other words liars" I agree Allsorts with what you say about not rubbishing what others say.

You have to know someone and know about their circumstances before making that judgement, and even then there may well be aspects of their life that you know nothing about.

If someone says they don't know why they've been estranged, whose to say that they are being dishonest. I don't understand why this is often a reoccurring theme in these discussions.

No one suggests that EAC who say they tried to talk to their parent(s) about the relationship, to try and improve things prior to making the decision is claiming to have done so, and rightly so.

LC can certainly prevent children from losing out on half of their family which, as you know from your own experience Onward can be devastating.

Even NC, as yours shows Sara can be kept between two people and not allowed to impact on the relationships of others.

I’ve never prevented my children seeing my mother, two of them were young adults anyway, and my husband took the youngest to visit.
They still visit, my oldest visits quite frequently, she was always the golden child, she hasn’t got much interest in the others or their children, but they still go up every few months.

Sara1954 I think it's fine to be ok that someone else's Mother stepped in at a time your own did not. It shows that people noticed you, cared and knew she was not present. I also had input from other peoples Mums.

My own Mother's Mother was emotionally closed. Their relationship was fake polite and visits were time limited.

As a child, I was devastated when we "lost" half our family spanning a few generations because my Mother estranged from them. This is partly why I favor LC over NC.

Allsorts
I don’t, and never have had a bond with my mother.
So I suppose it was easier for me to walk away
I always felt that if I had just one happy memory of being with her, I wouldn’t have been able to do it, I would have clung on to those memories. But for me it’s been nothing but relief.

Some may be lying but I don't think that is a given Allsorts. I think that there are so so many variations on a theme and every case is made up of different personalities, different experiences and different dynamics.

You are right about listening and either party can feel un-listened to, depending on how the estrangement happened, the causes stated or not, heard or not.

And you are right it is not a decision made lightly, although some may feel it is from what they are presented with.

Violetsky and OnwardandUpward
My mother didn’t have any friends, we lived on an estate, built post war and full of families, the woman would all be outside chatting, not my mother, she never joined in.
I think maybe she wanted to, but didn’t know how.
My gran was the opposite, very active in the chapel and the town’s woman guild, lots of friends, regular whist drives, I don’t know why she didn’t try to involve my mother.
I too have a few occasions where other mums have either stepped in to help me in some way, and one memorable occasion, where I did something bad, but no one told my parents, I got a little chat from one of the other mothers, but I remember them saying no need to say anything to my mother as long as I didn’t do it again.
I wonder if I overthink things, is there any point in hanging on to these memories?

Sorry for typos, words just alter after you’ve pressed send?

Except! Many claimI In other word liars. Unless perhaps not of sound mind. A lot can be told about people the way they respond to others valid feelings, not to rubbish them is a start, to listen to what they are saying is also useful.
No one easily goes into estrangement unless very immature or bitter, it’s hard to do it and has to be when all other avenues have been sought. Not an easy thing for anyone to do but especially a mother there is that bond that no one else has, we carried tgem, nurtured them and most of all lived them.

I understood your point Bibbity per se, just couldn't see its relevance in response to what I said! . You didn't highlight my name so I assume you were making a more general (and perfectly valid) point rather than responding to me

Obviously no assumptions can be made that that is the case in every scenario where one party says they don't know, but it is certainly one aspect for consideration in estrangement

That's interesting Violetsky as I've had similar. I always knew she wasn't like other Mums but couldn't put a finger on it.

My Mum has also had a lot of people vanish from her life and she did estrange her own parents and siblings, too. The only lasting friendships she has are with people who have severe MH issues that are worse than hers, that make her feel needed and superior. I definitely think you're right, its sad, but accurate.

Bibbity when I estranged a few people I knew growing up said to me that there was always something off about my mum and they didn't like her even though she hadn't directly done anything to them.

When I also look at the amount of friendships she lost and people who vanished from our lives.

Then I look again at the only close and personal relationships she retains and the problems I see in those people.. I guess people always see through them eventually and they can only have honest relationships with other toxic people and enablers

I wanted to highlight the issue that is often raised. Almost all agree that of an AC has been the victim of abuse at the hands of their parents that they are justified in estranging them.

But the behaviour may not have been directed at them specifically. But the cracks always show on people who target and attack others. They can't hide it. And so a parent would be justified in protecting their child and estranging.

The Estranged parent could look at the relationship and say they had never been abusive and gave their child a happy childhood but that doesn't change their character. It doesn't change the fact that they as a person are what the child is avoiding.

many claim they were never abusive to their children so the estrangement is unjustified there are claims from EAC that they had awful parents so the estrangement is justified, so it cuts both ways.

We have friends whose D was very low contact with her parents and particularly abusive to her mother for not sharing in her religious beliefs.

So many scenarios resulting in estrangement can be due to the behaviour of the AC who estranges their parents, including manipulation, control, deception and bullying.

Bibbity

Except many claim they were never abusive to their children so the estrangement is unjustified.
However their behaviour overall and how they are to others could have a large contribution to the estrangement.
People see relationships as linear rather than the whole picture that is being shown.

Why "except" Bibbity?

As I said, what you described may well be the case in some scenarios and absolutely, yes, in some cases they may not be seeing that their own behaviour may have caused that.

My comment did not deny that so I am not sure what your point is!

Madgran
I agree, so many scenarios.
A lot to do with personality, how much someone is prepared to put up with, are they prepared to rock the boat and upset the whole family? If one parent has gone too far, are you prepared to estrange both?
Can you justify ending any relationship your children may have with them?

It’s probably easier in many ways to go with the flow, but for some of us, that stops being an option.

I agree with bibbity

Except many claim they were never abusive to their children so the estrangement is unjustified.
However their behaviour overall and how they are to others could have a large contribution to the estrangement.
People see relationships as linear rather than the whole picture that is being shown.

"Manipulative, deceptive and a bully" is abusive so it would be understandable then Bibbity and I am sure that will be the cause in some estrangement.

There are so many scenario examples aren't there, which may or may not apply in any given case

I think you are right Bibbity or other factors like confining religious beliefs, bigotry or controlling behaviours that people might not want their children exposed too

Sometimes while there may be no abuse a parent can see characteristics that they know they need to protect their child from. For example if someone is manipulative, deceptive and a bully they may want to estrange even if that behaviour was not directed at them.

That's very kind of you to say so Sara; thank you.

Smileless
I know how hard things have been for you, and I know how supportive you are to other members who are going through bad times.

forgot to include uncles and aunts.

Communication is the key and without that there's no where to go.

Someone may be going through a difficult period in their lives and understandably be more sensitive. They may over react because of that so, they can accept that their current state of mind has made them more sensitive and the other person can apologise for whatever they have said and done which has inadvertently caused them pain.

Both in that scenario need to take some responsibility.

However, as you have posted Madgran sometimes being upset provides a convenient excuse to bring about what is really wanted ie estrangement.

I do agree with you Sara and am glad that your estrangement has been a positive for you but, and I apologise for labouring the point, not all estrangements occur because the relationship with the person/people being estranged was really bad.

In our case apart from his brother, our son has estranged his entire family; GP's, cousins, nieces and nephews.

once you come to a certain point, maybe something happens or is said, then if you feel that no apology will ever be sufficient, and you’re just stuck in a really bad relationship, then it’s best to walk.

I agree Sara, there are occasions when that is a valid decision to make. I am glad that your decision has worked for you .