Repairing estrangement

No, everyone's different, as you say.

We all have to deal with life as best we can, but, for me, that wouldn't be pandering to anything I would see as "untruths".

I would consider carefully if what they were saying was true, but unless I could see it, then there is nowhere to go with it.

In that scenario, it's best that everyone just does their own thing, and moves on.

Diamondlily Allsorts has already said she needs to move forward as things are which is completely valid.

In that situation, daughter made allegations that Allsorts is sure aren't true. So daughter did give reasons just not ones that could be dealt with.

In my case I would be worried about why my child was saying things that weren't true and I would do anything within my power to stay in their life to get them help but I'm just repeating myself now.

As I keep saying, if reasons are wanted, one way of opening that dialogue could be to say "I understand that our relationship made you so unhappy you had to leave it and I am so sorry for that, I am willing to do what it takes to have a good relationship with you".

I don't expect anyone to agree, that's just how I would handle it, we aren't all the same.

VioletSky

Diamondlily why is it controlling?

I sat and explained, I wrote it out in letters, I offered counselling. It didn't help me. Either my reasons didn't happen, weren't that big of a deal or I was just too sensitive.

I wouldn't blame anyone for not listing reasons, I don't think people owe an explanation for leaving a relationship because we do not owe anyone a relationship no matter who they are.

Perhaps though, there are ways to acknowledge and apologise without the reasons that could open dialogue in relationships where neither party is abusive.

Well, then obviously, you did explain and your reasons were rejected. Fair enough.

But, to get back to the OP, she hasn't got a clue why she's been estranged. A totally different scenario to yours.

Yes, anyone can estrange. Their life is their own.

But, it's totally pointless expecting some sort of acknowledgement or apology, if one party doesn't know what the issues are.

It doesn't have to be abuse, but there must be reasons.

Thanks for our understanding Violetsky. I just wanted to say that I do agree with you in principle.

I think emotional pain can feel quite overwhelming sometimes, and perhaps we can want to disengage if we don't have the emotional maturity or communication skills to feel confident about being able to solve things by talking about them.

Sometimes it can feel quite pointless, not with my son but other family members that have entrenched ideas. I suppose in those cases, I tend to go quiet rather than cause a confrontation. What is the point of confronting something that the other person won't ever admit?

It's true though, no one should be an emotional punchbag or door mat. I don't believe in apologising for the sake of it, but I suppose you could say you're sorry if you have caused pain, if you felt it was the right thing to do.

Diamondlily why is it controlling?

I sat and explained, I wrote it out in letters, I offered counselling. It didn't help me. Either my reasons didn't happen, weren't that big of a deal or I was just too sensitive.

I wouldn't blame anyone for not listing reasons, I don't think people owe an explanation for leaving a relationship because we do not owe anyone a relationship no matter who they are.

Perhaps though, there are ways to acknowledge and apologise without the reasons that could open dialogue in relationships where neither party is abusive.

VioletSky

Diamondlily

Some people are saying that they have or want to just move on from the relationship

I'm just saying that isn't me and what I would need to move forward.

Which is why I mentioned joint therapy, I would have been happy to do that.

I think it's OK to be both, moving on and finding happiness in life but still open to the situation changing in some way.

I don't know that anyone has to know what specific reasons were to offer apology and accountability. Maybe it is enough to just say "I understand that our relationship has made you unhappy enough to leave it and I am so sorry for that, I am willing to do what is necessary to have a good relationship with you".

Obviously that's not a one size fits all answer and I'm just thinking aloud here.

I estranged my ex MIL, over 40 years ago, because of her escalating vile behaviour over 7 years. The day I walked out of her life, forever, I left no uncertainty as to why. I laid it all out there.

My mother could be a nightmare, but I chose not to estrange. However, if I had wanted to estrange, I could still have laid the reasons out there - not one specific incident, but her continual undermining, put downs, scapegoating and showering me with negativity. I would have known why, and so would she.

Estranging a parent or child, in my view, is a major thing, so surely, whether it's specific incidents or general parenting, an estranger must know why they want to estrange.

Even if it's just you don't like a parent, then that's a reason. Sharing DNA doesn't mean you have to like someone.

I certainly wouldn't give some vague apology to my kids, because if I didn't know what the issue was, it could happen again. You can only change things if you know what actually needs to change and be apologised for.

ACs blaming parents, expecting some sort of restitution, but not explaining why, sounds very controlling.

Onward your son is unwell in some way, it's so good you are communicating and all the time you are in his life you are there for when and if that conversation does happen.

When I was very ill and mentally unwell because of it, I actually answered my mother because I wasn't in control of myself, my reactions or my feelings but the outcome was more estrangement because she is abusive.

Yet still, she is unwell in some way. Even all the awful things she said and did are forgivable. She just cannot ever face that shame or get herself help and its easier to lie and justify it to herself than it is to allow everyone else around her to know that she took her problems out on me and used me as an emotional punchbag.

No one should be an emotional punchbag so that others can feel better. That includes you, only you know when a relationship is too painful to continue

As Violetsky says "I am always willing to forgive someone who is able to be accountable and apologise. I can't trust people who aren't accountable for their actions and don't apologise so I could never be happy in a relationship with someone like that. I don't know how anyone could."

Regarding repairing estrangement, my son hasn't apologised and nor have I. We haven't spoken about it, just being in the moment and not looking backwards. To be honest, I think some things are just pain and can't always be verbalised. Though I do in principle agree with the above.

It might help that he never told me not to be in contact, he just went quiet? I have found out since that things were going wrong in his life at the time and it may not have been much to do with me, but that he was overwhelmed and slightly embarassed.

No one can have too much love.

Diamondlily

Some people are saying that they have or want to just move on from the relationship

I'm just saying that isn't me and what I would need to move forward.

Which is why I mentioned joint therapy, I would have been happy to do that.

I think it's OK to be both, moving on and finding happiness in life but still open to the situation changing in some way.

I don't know that anyone has to know what specific reasons were to offer apology and accountability. Maybe it is enough to just say "I understand that our relationship has made you unhappy enough to leave it and I am so sorry for that, I am willing to do what is necessary to have a good relationship with you".

Obviously that's not a one size fits all answer and I'm just thinking aloud here.

Our DD went from discussing our planned house move, taking my DH around houses we were interested in etc to cutting us dead (although she’s texting DH now). We’d had a wonderful week’s holiday a few weeks previously, she’d been fully aware of our plans for the previous 18 months or more.

Apparently I/we are responsible for her physical and mental ill health, she doesn’t want us living anywhere near her, we’re going to poach her friends (I have absolutely no idea who her friends are, I’ve never met any of them), it’s her community not yours, etc.
To say I was flabbergasted is putting it mildly!
No birthday card, Christmas card, let alone presents. Nothing.
She’s sent the odd very brief text to me that I have carefully responded to after discussing with DH.
Needless to say we’re not moving now (it was to the same city but a good distance away from her), I have lost the impetus and can’t be bothered to try and rebuild our dreams. We’d found the perfect bungalow, put in an offer then bang. Dreams demolished.
I have little interest in much now.

I feel that estrangement, just to cut off, is cruel. I do not know how you can do it if there’s any love there. Even in a friendship you explain why you are cutting ties. Then there’s a reason and an end. You don’t hang on thinking what have I done, how can I put it right, when in truth you can’t. The action in the first place really says it all. It just did not seem to me your own child wouldn’t love you, I do now of course, if I love it goes deep, I put up with a lot whilst it just annoyed her I didn’t go quietly. Just knowing that brings a sort of closure for me at least.

VioletSky

Although I'm living my life without any hope or expectation that things will ever be resolved, I'm not the sort of person who can shut, bolt and lock the door.

I am always willing to forgive someone who is able to be accountable and apologise.

I can't trust people who aren't accountable for their actions and don't apologise so I could never be happy in a relationship with someone like that. I don't know how anyone could.

I've always been sensitive person and that has never caused any issues in my other relationships, the opposite actually.

You can only be accountable and apologise if you know what for.

To say "I'm sorry, but I don't know why or what for" is pointless.

Sorry wrong post lol. Forget which one I am on half the time

It is definitely mind over body.

The last few days I have found myself genuinely hungry twice and it made me realise that, that is a feeling I hadn't actually really felt for a while and also that it is a feeling that really isn't all that terrible!

Although I'm living my life without any hope or expectation that things will ever be resolved, I'm not the sort of person who can shut, bolt and lock the door.

I am always willing to forgive someone who is able to be accountable and apologise.

I can't trust people who aren't accountable for their actions and don't apologise so I could never be happy in a relationship with someone like that. I don't know how anyone could.

I've always been sensitive person and that has never caused any issues in my other relationships, the opposite actually.

Smileless2012

It isn't easy DiamondLily but it is the only way to look after and protect ourselves.

No, but sometimes you have to admit defeat and look after yourself.

Constant stress and worrying, and trying to do some sort of "Eggshell dance", frightened to say anything, in case it upsets or offends, is no good for anyone.

It isn't easy DiamondLily but it is the only way to look after and protect ourselves.

Allsorts

Thank you all. I have made my decision. She has what she wants, I won’t try anything else, I gave it my all, I can never forget what’s been said and done. Theres no way back from some things.
I do think a lot of those estranged will get back on track because the loves there and things get better with maturity and time.

I think you're wise. If she can't give any clue as to what the problem is, then there's nowhere to go with it. An apology, without having a clue why, would be totally pointless.

Discussion is the only way forwards, but if she won't, then that's her decision, and issue to deal with, and she needs to do what she needs to do, if she feels she has to.

Sometimes, if a relationship has got that bad, and one party refuses to discuss it, then for our own health and well-being, we need to walk away and accept the status quo.

Concentrate on those that love and value you.

If she wishes to ever contact you, then she can do that and you can decide whether to respond or not.

Best wishes ?

I'm not in this position but I do have a sibling who barely bothers with me and it hurts a lot. Over the years I have been good to him but it isn't appreciated. His values are shallow - money, big cars etc. My point really is that we are all so different. We can't get inside anyone's head. I am emotional and get upset easily. My sibling is more selfish and hard-hearted. This is how human nature is. It's so sad that someone can turn their back on someone close to them but, in my case, I have just accepted he doesn't really care and I can't change that.

It's been 9 years for us and there are still times when we get upset and worry about our ES and GC, but it's better than it used to be and we're no longer "sick with grief" that they're not in our lives anymore.

Letting things go for the sake of the relationship makes sense love0c and not raising the matter yourself Onward makes sense too.

Onwardandupward I am so pleased it seems to have turned a corner for you ]smile] Everybody is different. For me it has worked letting so much 'go'. I do not bother about stuff anymore. We do not get upset, worry, overthink it, we just ignore! We find it much better being like this and having them in our lives than being constantly sick with grief that they are not.

Sara1954 , I also used to think everything was my fault and then realised it wasn't. I didn't estrange my parents though, they cut me off. Unfortunately the toxic runs deep in our family.

Thanks Allsorts I wish I could offer more help, but everyone is different so what works for one may not work for another. People can ignore a letter, but I think a gift is harder to ignore.

Onwards and upwards, so glad that you have contact again.

About ten years before I estranged my mother, and while my dad was still alive, i distanced myself quite severely and very suddenly.
I stopped making my weekly duty visits, I hardly spoke when I saw them, they must have realised something had changed, but never mentioned it.
The fact was, nothing had happened, but I started remembering some things, not even specific things, more a sense of how it was for me when I was little.
How could I have ever articulated that? and yet the memories were so powerful, that when an opportunity arose for me to say, okay, that’s it, I grabbed it, and have never looked back.
I think prior to that, I felt that everything which was wrong was my fault, and then I knew it wasn’t.

I'm so sorry, I don't have answers particularly, but all I can say is that at Christmas when I sent a gift (no words) to my GC, they sent gifts back- and then we just took a risk and turned up. They did let us in and we have seen them a handful of times since.

What we haven't done is discuss anything....I still don't know why- and I'm worried to spoil the now by bringing it up.

Maybe words are over rated - just send a gift, no strings?
Other than that I have no ideas and hope there are answers for all who seek them