Do abusive people know they are abusive?

Recent troubles have nothing to do with me and best ignored

I'm just stressed about the fact that I've just overboiled my roast potatoes

Passive aggression does seem to be the language on this board. I don’t believe it’s a new phenomena here either based on what I’ve read. It’s unfortunate but that’s life.

Anyway, minus the passive aggression and comment policing, I’ve quite enjoyed reading the more level headed comments here, whether I agree with them or not.

It would help if we didn't see posts like "I see through passive aggression quite well ftr" especially when the person this was quite clearly directed at, wasn't being passive aggressive.

TBH vs I have no idea why we're having so much trouble on the estrangement forum just lately, but we are and people are responding accordingly.

Can't we just disagree on some things without there being "some sort of agenda" that means people are wrong and making it personal

What do you mean exactly? What "agenda" and who "personally"?

Does every thread have to turn into an argument?

Can't we just disagree on some things without there being "some sort of agenda" that means people are wrong and making it personal

We've certainly had more than our fair share lately haven't we Chewbacca.

I see through passive aggression quite well ftr

We all do Stiller; unfortunately we've had a lot of it lately so we're becoming quite expert at spotting it and calling it out when we see it.

Thank you for the clarification Stiller.

I wasn’t accusing you specifically of those things; I was referencing some of the commonly said statements with regard to people walking away from familial ties when there are disputes about what constitutes abuse. That dispute will often lead to one party placing the value judgement of “wrong” on the manner in which the person on the receiving end of the behavior walks away. The overall point was that if someone feels behavior was abuse, whatever manner they choose to walk away is fine for them. The other party doesn’t have to like or accept it, but it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. If you disagree, that is fine. We’re all entitled to our differing opinions. But seeing as how this is a discussion board, I find it prudent to offer the opposite perspective in this case. That’s what discussion boards are for.

No I don't agree Stiller that when abuse is subjective the only person whose opinion matters, is the one on the receiving end. I can see that for you, that is the case but it isn't for me.

I don't understand why you go on to talk about moral posturing, as I haven't seen any examples of that here. Or why in response to my earlier post you have said "it is easy to dismiss when others say they suffered abuse at their hands - regardless of the form".

I haven't dismissed anyone whose said they suffered abuse, and I may be wrong but that appears to be what you're suggesting. If it is, I find your suggestion rather offensive.

I see through passive aggression quite well ftr

And for the record, I am not “justifying” to anyone any decision I made. I am discussing my situation because it is pertinent, same as anyone else. Please stop being so unpleasant. Smileless can engage or not, but I cannot see how that concerns you.

I asked a question.
It's fine if you don't choose to answer.
Curiosity killed the cat, and all that.

MissAdventure

stiller why are you questioning smileless?
It is a discussion between everyone.

As you say, you so not need to justify the reasons you did or didn't estrange.

Nobody has said you have to.

I didn’t realize you were a moderator, and that there were specific ways you personally would like us all to engage. I am free to comment as I sit fit. My comments are in line with the discussion. Why are you questioning my engagement on the topic of discussion? This is a discussion board. I am discussing. Feel free to read or to ignore, but please do not presume to dictate my posts.

That’s very kind Violet

They are totally self absorbed. My 'father' never apologised because he didn't think he'd done anything wrong. Even when his son took his own life.

stiller why are you questioning smileless?
It is a discussion between everyone.

As you say, you so not need to justify the reasons you did or didn't estrange.

Nobody has said you have to.

maddyone

VioletSky
I recognise so much of what you have said. My mother wouldn’t believe me when I told her I’d been sexually assaulted by a member of our family. She threw me out of the house. I was nineteen so not a child, but that hurt me very, very much. I know how you feel about what your mother said to you about keeping quiet about that awful event.

If you ever need to talk, I will always listen. Inbox message or I can give you my email

It is.
Then apart from all the abusers, there are all the methods they employ. I've told before about someone I knew in his 20s and engaged.

He would come home at half ten to his mum weeping, with her head in her hands, and his dad absolutely seething at what "he had done" to upset his mum.

One night he came home and his dad punched him as soon as he walked through the door.

Perhaps she was just a worrier, perhaps it was planned and deliberate.

@Smileless,

Your point goes back to my first comment. When abuse is subjective, the ONLY opinion that matters is the person on the receiving end of the behavior. It’s another reason why it is completely and totally offensive when people say things like “my mother did such and such too and I’d never estrange. It’s wrong.” Or when the moral posturing comes in the form of “a decent person wouldn’t walk away from a loving parent. I dealt with worse with my mother or MIL and I still took care of them until their last day”. By trying to frame another person’s experiences, feelings, and life decisions strictly through the prism of our own one can easily miss the mark on recognizing said behavior in themselves. It is what they are used to/have dealt with, so it is easy to dismiss when others say they suffered abuse at their hands—regardless of the form. My mum would claim to have been a loving MIL. The truth is her actions were so far from loving and kind that even if she did love my wife, it wouldn’t change the nature of her bullying behavior. It was abusive, no matter what she says. No matter what her inner feelings were.

VioletSky
I recognise so much of what you have said. My mother wouldn’t believe me when I told her I’d been sexually assaulted by a member of our family. She threw me out of the house. I was nineteen so not a child, but that hurt me very, very much. I know how you feel about what your mother said to you about keeping quiet about that awful event.

It's a mess alright.

Ugh paddyann54 you dodged a bullet there.

No, children are all the more vulnerable to the havoc their parents reap.

Plus, we are all bound by wanting to believe things might turn out right.

There are lots of examples just on this site, among normal, everyday people.

Lovers who pay no rent, sulk, try to control
Parents who do it to their children, and children who do it to their parents.
Bosses, work colleagues, next door neighbours.

The list is endless.

No they can't Kate that's true but they can walk away when they're adults.