I really think I would have made a good grandfather.

grandma didnt frighten

Ah Normandy girl can I point out that none of the very difficult situations with your grandmother involved physical violence towards children or other adults who were less strong than themselves. Or cruelty to small animals.
Nor constant verbal abuse along the lines of how useless your children were, how they should have been aborted or strangled, with gestures to match. Your grandma did frighten an older child into attacking his smaller brother or threaten you with a knife while your children looked on.

You have had experience with dementia but I can’t believe you would have willingly allowed your children to remain in that kind of scenario.

The OPs son invited them for Christmas. At they point they were willing to support and have the OP and his wife in their home. But something happened, bad enough for the parents to say “No more”.

Norah

Casdon This post is about him maintaining his relationship with them despite the difficulties.

OP didn't say that, he has an "it is what it is" attitude

I think saying in the title that he would have made a good grandfather and his regular attempts to speak to his more local son is evidence that he wants to maintain a relationship Norah. I don’t read his post as it is what it is at all, I think he’s very sad but would do anything to put things right with his children if he can.

VioletSky He is the one asking for support here and I support him seeing his children and grandchildren

I have not read anything that indicated he was asking support, rather just making *some statements with many omitted details (as is his pejorative)

Hithere The original post has plenty of red flags that are being ignored - demonizing ACs for not supporting a dementia patient is very inaccurate

Indeed, OP just seems sad, but resigned to his life.

Casdon This post is about him maintaining his relationship with them despite the difficulties.

OP didn't say that, he has an "it is what it is" attitude

What a painful thing to be living with DannyD.

I think I would be telling my children that I love them very much, miss them, and what can I do to make the situation better.

A card with a letter inside and perhaps some money to buy something for the kids? An olive branch!

If you are able and willing to see them without your wife I would be letting them know.

Perhaps they have always struggled with her and Dementia is just too much for them? Only you will have an idea as to what has gone on before.

I hope you can find a way to move forward and be reunited.

Both of my parents had this disease. It's horrible, it's incurable and it tears the guts out of family life.?

But, I would not have left them to it, or not supported my dad when he was caring for my mother.

The children coped just fine.

While dementia is devastating and the individual is not aware of his/her actions, OP also mentions depression, bipolar, etc.

An adult can very well remediate those or at least try to.

The original post has plenty of red flags that are being ignored - demonizing ACs for not supporting a dementia patient is very inaccurate

Casdon

Normandygirl

I don't think that I would want a relationship with anyone, AC or not, who couldn't show some understanding, tolerance and compassion towards my partner, who is suffering from an illness over which they have no control. I would be horrified if my AC's said that they couldn't deal with someone who had a disfiguring cancer and it was "upsetting "for their children. I see no difference just because the illness in question is affecting the brain.

You clearly haven’t lived with somebody who has a serious mental illness or dementia if you think that Normandygirl. Without further explanation from DannyD we don’t know the exact situation. His wife may be violent, angry, have a vicious tongue, have mistreated them as children, be deliberately unkind to their children, withdrawn to the extent that she doesn’t communicate at all or many other scenarios. He is standing by her, but he clearly understands why his children don’t want to keep in contact with their mother, we don’t so we shouldn’t judge them without the full facts. This post is about him maintaining his relationship with them despite the difficulties.

That's a sweeping assumption, I have dealt with dementia for many years with my Grandma and I can assure you I know first hand the challenges involved in caring for someone with this illness. Several times she went "walkabout" in the middle of the night and on one occasion was found bloodied and bruised along a duel carriageway. She regularly went along our street breaking off all our neighbours wing mirrors. That was in addition to the day to day challenges such as forgetting that she had eaten and demanding more food constantly. My children grew up with this and understood the cause and were mainly understanding and sympathetic, they always treated her with kindness as children often do.
I also later had to deal with my older brother who suffered from bipolar and chose to commit suicide on New years Eve Please don't make an assumption that because I have a different point of view, it's because I have no experience of the situation.

It is probably worth trying to let the children know he would like a separate relationship, as that may change things in regards to contact

I agree Casdon but from what the OP has said his D and now one of his son's doesn't want to maintain a relationship with him as well as his wife.

Since Christmas he's only had sporadic texts from his son and in his last conversation with him, when asking if he was going to be collateral damage was told "It is what it is".

As I posted earlier text messages, 'phone calls and sending photo's of the children would involve Danny in their lives without involving his wife, but it appears that this isn't going to be the case either.

Normandygirl

I don't think that I would want a relationship with anyone, AC or not, who couldn't show some understanding, tolerance and compassion towards my partner, who is suffering from an illness over which they have no control. I would be horrified if my AC's said that they couldn't deal with someone who had a disfiguring cancer and it was "upsetting "for their children. I see no difference just because the illness in question is affecting the brain.

You clearly haven’t lived with somebody who has a serious mental illness or dementia if you think that Normandygirl. Without further explanation from DannyD we don’t know the exact situation. His wife may be violent, angry, have a vicious tongue, have mistreated them as children, be deliberately unkind to their children, withdrawn to the extent that she doesn’t communicate at all or many other scenarios. He is standing by her, but he clearly understands why his children don’t want to keep in contact with their mother, we don’t so we shouldn’t judge them without the full facts. This post is about him maintaining his relationship with them despite the difficulties.

Really does depend whether this is a behaviour change or a long standing issue that mum can't hide in company any more.

If it is a problem that the children have faced for a long time, they won't be able to hide how it impacts them from their children and their children will be impacted.

There is room for everyone's feelings, and if the grandchildren are not safe around grandma then grandad should not have to miss out

Who would want him too? He is the one asking for support here and I support him seeing his children and grandchildren

No sweeping exit
or offstage lines
could make me feel bitter
or treat you unkind
Wild horses
couldn't drag me away

I don't think that I would want a relationship with anyone, AC or not, who couldn't show some understanding, tolerance and compassion towards my partner, who is suffering from an illness over which they have no control. I would be horrified if my AC's said that they couldn't deal with someone who had a disfiguring cancer and it was "upsetting "for their children. I see no difference just because the illness in question is affecting the brain.

I wouldn't expect my husband to do so either. It isn't something I would do.

I really can't understand that, I'd never expect my husband to stop seeing our children. That would be a way for me to stay connected and hope for reconciliation one day.

If it were reversed, nothing would stop me seeing my children. If he couldn't or wouldn't have a positive relationship with them that would never stop me. Those are my children.

I completely agree with you Norah and would not visit my AC and GC if my husband were unable to do so with me. I'm not sure how you can call someone out regarding their behaviour, when they have an illness which manifests its self in terms of unacceptable behaviour.

As you say Chewbacca there seems to be an empathy bypass for this lady.

Danny does say in his OP that neither his son or d.i.l. had contacted him since Christmas so it appears that he is as his son agreed "collateral damage" but why does he need to be?

How is he supposed to maintain a relationship with his son and his son's children if his son no longer bothers to contact him?

Telephone calls and text messages wouldn't involve the OP's wife, nor would sending photo's of the children from time to time but that requires a willingness on the son's part which from what Danny says at the end of his OP, doesn't appear to be there.

I'm sorry to say that I don't agree Poppy that the son seems to want a relationship or that the OP is looking for approval, just some understanding.

It is a shame DL that this couples son and daughter are reacting in this way and can't offer the support, and have the understanding their brother clearly has.

I remember having a similar talk with our boys when they were young and we were visiting their GGM. We had one or two embarrassing visits over the years but explained them away just as you did.

When my mother contracted Alzheimer's, she was verbally awful to everyone, even those she did like.

My GC loved her and wanted to see her, but they were all still quite young, and I wasn't sure how this was going to work.

But, we sat them down, explained, in simple terms, that GGM was very poorly, and it made her say silly things.

That she still loved them, but she was poorly and couldn't help it.

They got the hang of it. They just carried on chatting about their lives, and ignored the insults.

If you keep it simple, children can understand the effects of Dementia. But, it needs the adult members of the family to all be singing from the sane hymn sheet.

The OP, who seems to have disappeared, doesn't seem to have that.

It's a shame that his ACs are reacting like this, because he will need a lot of support.

After passing pleasantries, I told him I was curious why neither he nor his wife would contact us. I said that I thought our Christmas visit went well, and thought the past was behind us. He told me it was not me, that he didn't like the way "mom was." I said well I guess I'm just collateral damage, huh? His response "It is what it is"

Please try and find a way of having a relationship and being there for your son. He seems to want a relationship? It seems like you're looking for approval? Because of your wife's illness?

You can have both, you just need to be respective to both parties.

It doesn't sound as though the inclusion team member had very much success with managing the mental health issues there MissAdventure!

Love it Miss A

I remember someone from social services coming to speak to a lady with dementia in a care home - in effect, to call them out on some quite unsavoury things she would shout at carers, visitors and so on.

People who knew her of old told us she would have been absolutely mortified, as this unkind behaviour was diametrically opposed to the woman she was.

The inclusion team member came smartly out of her room with "F* Off, big nose!" ringing in her ears.

We would have the cure for dementia in our grasp if it was as simple as telling someone sternly to stop it.

Chewbacca

There seems to be an empathy bypass for a woman who has had lifelong bipolarism, depression, and now dementia. How can anyone "call her out on it"; it's not as if she's had those illnesses deliberately is it? I'm fairly sure she'd rather not have had such poor mental health all her life. It's a poor outlook for those GNetters who are suffering with depression or bipolarism; looks like their offspring will be "calling them out" at some point.

I agree Chewbacca. It just is not as straightforward as "calling her out" or "talking it through" in these circumstances.