I really think I would have made a good grandfather.

Spot on, Chewbacca

It also matters how those MH issues were managed

The son now also has a wife and children that he must put first.

My husband was understanding of his fathers mental health problems all through childhood, teenage years and as a young man. I supported him as his wife even though I was sometimes frightened.

But it was when he saw his own children distressed and frightened that he said no more.
They were not to suffer as he had done and have to work to overcome the effects.

The OP may be a wonderful grandad given the chance but his son clearly believes that his family should not be in contact with his own mother. That is not selfish but a responsible decision based on his own experiences.

Which commenters are lacking empathy?

The title is so sad, resigned to not being a grandfather. It doesn't have to be that way for DannyD

Well said Chewbacca.

There seems to be an empathy bypass for a woman who has had lifelong bipolarism, depression, and now dementia. How can anyone "call her out on it"; it's not as if she's had those illnesses deliberately is it? I'm fairly sure she'd rather not have had such poor mental health all her life. It's a poor outlook for those GNetters who are suffering with depression or bipolarism; looks like their offspring will be "calling them out" at some point.

Hithere

There is a fine line between loyalty and accountability

I would expect my partner to call me out if I was out of line

Yes I agree - I would expect my partner to talk to me if my behaviour was inappropriate etc. However the additional problem here is dementia and mental health problems which may make that somewhat difficult, in terms of bringing about full understanding of the problem and a change in behaviour.

That is why in these circumstances there may need to be a different approach in terms of maintaining relationships etc with ACs and GCs.

Danny I still think the key here is for you to have a conversation with your son about:

*his reasons for not wanting to have you and his mother visit (he presumably sees you as "a package"?)
*explaining to him the difficulties that you are dealing with with his mum
*agreeing together a way forward ...for his family, for you, for his Mum...and those ways forward may well be different for each of you.

But talking honestly is the key to fining solutions!

Hithere, I can't fathom calling out a bipolar, depressive, who has dementia, what does that look like, how does that work?

"I [Name] take you [Name] to be my wife/husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law. In the presence of God I make this vow."

Norah

Casdon, It's my opinion that loyalty to my husband comes first, before any other relationship. *Opinions may vary!*

They certainly do Norah.

I feel rather sorry for Danny's wife; she seems to have had a lifetime of poor mental health and is now suffering from a disease that will get worse, not better. Perhaps the children who have grown up with a parent, who has had a lifetime of Fibro, RA, Bipolarism, Depression etc, perhaps feel that they just can't cope now with the dementia as well. It must have been very difficult for them when they were young.

There is a fine line between loyalty and accountability

I would expect my partner to call me out if I was out of line

Casdon, It's my opinion that loyalty to my husband comes first, before any other relationship. Opinions may vary!

Norah

I'd say staying loyal to life partner is most important, I'd not hurt or upset mine by visiting DS alone.

I would, if I could see both parties’ perspective on the difficulties between them, and I knew that my partner was not able to behave appropriately in front of my children or grandchildren, which seems to be the case here. Blind loyalty to a partner at the expense of your own relationships with your children and grandchildren just isn’t right or fair in those circumstances.

Agree with you Madgran & Norah; it's not at all unusual for the same advice to be given, several times, and by different posters, to the same problem, so I'm not at all sure why this thread is any different. Seems a bit odd.

Madgran77, But I am still unclear as to why this is a big deal really.

Agreed. It's not of any matter at all, IMO.

I'd say staying loyal to life partner is most important, I'd not hurt or upset mine by visiting DS alone.

VS If you have the opportunity to still be dad and grandad please take it

FarNorth Dan should take the advice given earlier, to maintain his own relationship with both his sons and his grandchildren if he actually wants to continue being a grandfather

This is the similar sound advice offered by VS and Far North that I agree with.

But I am still unclear as to why this is a big deal really. With threads moving pretty fast, it is easy for the same advice to be given again and for a poster to see it the second time and not the first. Seen it many times myself and seen my own advice not commented on but repeated in similar vein by someone else. So what - as long as whatever is said is helpful to the OP. Lets hope that this piece of advice is helpful to Danny if he is still reading

Thank you FarNorth, Hithere and Madgran

But, as it does seem to matter Hithere, I've had a look at both posts and, whilst they both offer the sound advice, as have so many others, FarNorth's isn't the same at all!

I think it does matter to give the credit to the poster who first had the idea - generally speaking

Wasn't VS who first suggested that, not FarNorth?

Does it really matter?

Hithere

Wasn't VS who first suggested that, not FarNorth?

Yes it was. Far North acknowledges that it was advice given earlier. I agree with the advice whether given by VS or Far North, its still good advice!

Wasn't VS who first suggested that, not FarNorth?

I agree with FarNorth as well. Continue seeing your family Dan although I find it sad that they are unwilling to see how their mother's illness has impacted on everyone.

I agree with you FarNorth, good advice as always.