I really think I would have made a good grandfather.

Dementia is incredibly difficult for families.

I used to work in care.

There are aspects of personality when dementia occurs. I've watched an elderly lady bring her own daughter to tears and whilè making her a cup of tea she said, in some ways it was easier now because her mum couldn't hide her behaviour any more and others were seeing what she had been put through for years. Her relationship with her brother had become better as a result because he hadn't believed the mother who treated him so well treated his sister badly.

People with dementia are often confused and frightened though and some become withdrawn while others lash out because behavioural changes are the only way they can express their wants and needs. I've been hit and kicked and shouted at and I was very gentle, kind and patient.

There can also be problems with hallucinations, one lady used to tell me a story of a car coming right through her bedroom wall, daughter assured me that this was a fear of mum's living on a corner but it had never actually happened.

I could usually tell if someone had a uti because they would go through a personality change or start hearing and seeing things that weren't there and uti is common when you can't see to your own hygiene needs well and are reliant on carers twice a day.

So it's all very difficult and I appreciate that families need to make allowances but certain things are always going to be painful and hard to deal with if it is an escalation of behaviour that was already there or based on personal things.

Not everyone is strong enough to not let it impact them no matter how hard they try and how kind, patient and understanding they are.

It really depends where the problem started and if it started before dementia I think that has an impact on how well people cope with it.

It’s an awful situation made worse by the behaviour of those who can’t or won’t see exactly what is wrong with their mum.

Perhaps they can see clearly what is wrong, and that it can only get worse.
I'd say, as there was a Xmas visit before the son started to be distant, that Dan should accept that his son's family found it very difficult being with his wife.
Dan should take the advice given earlier, to maintain his own relationship with both his sons and his grandchildren if he actually wants to continue being a grandfather .

Getting along with the son in Korea is also easier, given they are in a different time zone, online interactions are usually shorter than in person visits and the mother may or not be present.

Is the daughter also more local to you (in same country)?

I think the difference is that Bi-Polar and depression can be treated and improve.

Alzheimer's and Dementia are degenerative diseases that currently can't be treated.

Sad situation.

DannyDwife can’t choose anything she has dementia and it’s probably been with her for a few years before diagnosis.

She may not have capacity at all the poor woman.

It’s an awful situation made worse by the behaviour of those who can’t or won’t see exactly what is wrong with their mum.

Bipolarism, Depression, and Dementia. are all difficult for outsiders to understand and cope with.

It's admirable Danny is loyal to his wife, but I can't see a way forward for his son to subject his family to remark made then a counter and it just seemed to escalate. No need to get into a she said/she said.

Or issues involving my wife and daughter.

Sounds like too much to unravel, to me.

Hithere

Peace maker = rug sweeper

Dangerous role. Justifying and minimizing the offending behaviour does not help the situation, in fact, makes it worse

Peace maker = rug sweeper

What, always ?

Alzheimer's and Dementia are not the same as workaday mental health issues.

The wife won't and can't improve, and it's a case of relatives having to adjust to the disease, if contact is to be maintained.

That's a lovely post*Granniesunite*.

I agree Normandygirl I can see why rug sweeping would be connected to a peacekeeper, but not a peacemaker.

I'm not sure a situation where a son would be told to "cleave to his wife" the DIL is valid here.

That is a nuclear family issue, Husband, wife and children.

This is also a nuclear family issue, husband, wife and children.

I think also advice should be based on who has had the mean things said to them in any situation, whether its a new issue caused by illness or an old issue heightened by illness is probably what needs to be sorted out and only OP knows the truth of that.

Continuing to have a good relationship with the children and show them love and support is probably the absolute best way to achieve a reconciliation for the whole family in future.

Choosing the wife over the children would send the clear messge that they weren't heard, supported and understood.

No one should ever be in a position where they are forced to choose between their wife and their own children amd I hope that doesn't come from either wife or children.

Hithere

Peace maker = rug sweeper

Dangerous role. Justifying and minimizing the offending behaviour does not help the situation, in fact, makes it worse

Hithere
You are confusing Peacemaker with Peacekeeper, they are very different roles.
A Peacekeeper wants to avoid conflict by not " rocking the boat" steer clear of conflict and maintain a facade of peace to keep others happy
A Peacemaker is a mediator who strives to restore balance, amnity and resolution and bring a situation to a solid place.
I'm sure Jesus said "Blessed are the Peacemakers" right?

Your wife is very ill and has been for years but as it’s not “on show” so to speak she’ll not get the same understanding as other more awful physical illness. How would the family treat her if it was cancer or some other illness?Are they embarrassed by her illness.?

Whatever, you have been a constant in her life and in your families lives it’s a pity some of them can’t respond now when you need support in caring for your wife.

Mental health does change a persons personality and she’ll have no control over that she’ll say and do lots of absurd things that she can’t help doing that’s the nature of this illness.

I know my husband has Alzhimers and although I saw friends going through the same illness until you are personally involved you really don’t have the same understanding of it.

You sound a normal loving husband dad and grandad. I wouldn’t change a thing you’ve done. Keep in touch with all your grandchildren small gifts cards etc and let them know you love and care for them.

Take comfort from the son who does understand and his family and perhaps in time your other family will overcome what ever feelings they have for their mother and step up to the mark and support you and her.

I’m really quite upset for you because you’ve a difficult road to travel yet. I wish you and your wife well and hope the professionals involved with your wife’s illness are giving you and her what is needed to alleviate the stress and anxiety that surround this sad time.

Your right Casdon I picked that up from one the responses on the thread.

I hope so too Lathyrus maybe the sporadic texts he's currently receiving from his son will become more regular.

I hope he might be able to keep contact if he just keeps to what the grandchildren have been doing and stuff like that.

My mil never attempted to plead or change our minds or discuss my fil except in terms of “We” went to the horse show or whatever.

I know some will say it was rug sweeping but we didn’t see it like that. There couldn’t be any more discussion. “It is what it is.” is sometimes what we have to accept. And then make the best of it we can.
?

I don’t think DannyD has said he’s made the decision not to pursue a relationship with his son because it would hurt his wife to do so Smileless, I think that’s a supposition? He is trying to keep everybody happy, but the real victim is him - I think he should try and find a way forward that enables him to find some peace in the midst of the turmoil of the relationship between his wife and their children, and if that involves him seeing them alone then that’s what he must do.

The OP will hardly be abandoning two of his children. His son's and adult with 3 children of his own, and has made a decision to do what he feels is in the best interests of his family.

If Danny decides he wont pursue a relationship with this son and his D because it would hurt his wife to do so, he's making a decision based on what he believes is in the best interest of his marriage. I agree that "it's not all about her", it's not all about these adult children either.

I do agree with you Casdon that being a peace maker isn't the same as being a rug sweeper. It is as you say, a crucial role and can be the difference between keeping a family together, or a family falling apart.

As you've posted about your own situation Lathryus your m.i.l. made her choice and it would have been hard for her. You and your H made yours and that can't have been easy either.

You maintained weekly 'phone calls with your m.i.l. but it seems as if the OP's son may not be willing to do the same with his father.

DannyD you are a grandfather and whatever the relationship with your own children you will remain one. How you can maintain that relationship with the children of the son you are estranged from is a problem. I think you should message him and ask if he's happy for you (not your wife) to stay in contact with them. Then send them little presents and cards, remember their birthdays and Christmas. Always tell your son that he is free to inspect and approve what you send. Your grandchildren will grow up and before you know it they will be texting and using their own phone, and will perhaps call you. You just need to keep some channel of communication open. Good luck!

My father-in-law suffered from mental health issues and after one Christmas when the children were very small we had to take the decision that to protect them we could no longer actually be physically present with my parents in law.

When it was just the two of us we had managed to deal with his behaviour but once the children were involved there could be no going back.

Before Facebook etc we did then have weekly phone calls with my mother in law. It was hard on her but it was her choice to stay with her husband and our judgement that contact with him was wrong for our children.

I’m afraid your son is right when he says “It is what it is”. Your wife cannot change, you come as a pair, they do not want her behaviour affecting their children, perhaps in the way that your son and daughter feel it affected their childhood.

I agree with posters who say that because you are used to your wife’s behaviour you may not be aware of the devastating impact it can have on others.

Hithere

Peace maker = rug sweeper

Dangerous role. Justifying and minimizing the offending behaviour does not help the situation, in fact, makes it worse

That is way off beam. Being the peacemaker is a crucial role, particularly in a family where somebody’s behaviour is unacceptable to other family members, whether due to illness or not. I don’t agree with Smileless either on this, I think it’s important for DannyD to maintain a relationship with his children and grandchildren regardless of his wife’s behaviour and feelings, it’s not all about her and it does sound as though she has behaved very inappropriately, What is the alternative, that OP looks after his wife and abandons two of his children and grandchildren? I don’t agree with being loyal to your partner to the exclusion of your children, whatever the circumstances.

DannyD is there anybody, either family, friend or an agency who would look after your wife for a few hours each week so that you can visit your nearby son and daughter and see your grandchildren without having to worry about your wife? I think it’s really important for you to get some enjoyment for yourself, at the moment you are unable to ever put yourself first by the sounds of it?

Are your children aware that your wife has Dementia?

I've "lived the dream" twice with this awful disease (parents), and whatever is said from someone suffering that is utterly meaningless.

They have no "stop or pause" buttons, they don't know what they are saying, and swiftly forget what they've said to start with.

Perhaps your children need to educate themselves a little with it. It's the disease talking, not the person.

Ideally, they should be giving you support, not coming over all hostile.?

I get the impression you are in the US, and it might be an idea for you to look up any local support services, it's difficult caring for someone with Dementia.

But, I would stop your wife using social media - those sites can be the graveyard of healthy family relationships.

Best wishes.?

Hello Danny and welcome to GN.

This is a very difficult and upsetting situation for you and I'm so sorry that you're experiencing this division in your family.

When I'd finished reading your OP I knew what I wanted to say but see the Madgran's already said it. You live with your wife's physical and mental health issues on a daily basis, so understandably will to a certain extent, be 'used' to her behaviour and not aware of the impact it can have on those who are not with her on a daily basis.

It's not easy having a parent with mental health issues and some can accommodate and deal with this better than others. One of your sons is able to do this while the other and his sister seem unable too.

I do think that it's a shame that neither are prepared to have any or very little contact at all. Text messages and sending photo's of themselves and their family would enable you and your wife to still feel a part of their families, without the possibility of your wife's behaviour ever being an issue.

Your wife is ill. She doesn't do or say whatever it is she's done or said out of spite and deliberate cruelty, she's ill. Unless there's a huge shift here, it's unlikely that the relationship between this son and your daughter is ever likely to change.

You say that when you said to your son about you being "collaterol damage" his response was "It is what it is". TBH there seems to be little or no compassion for you or his mother in that reply so I think you should focus on your son and his family who live in Korea.

TBH I'm surprised to see it suggested that you pursue the relationship with these two children regardless of whether doing so, your wife would be hurt. If this were about a son seeking advice about a similar situation because his wife didn't want contact with his mother, I know the advice would be for him to 'cleave to his wife'.

You are a grandfather and I'm sure a good one. Your GD's in Korea will grow up knowing this and I hope that at some time in the future, your other GC will know this too.

"No need to get into a she said/she said here."

The answer could very well be in that little sentence

You don't have to share with us, of course

What vs said

DannyD

If you have the opportunity to still be dad and grandad please take it.

Whether until the situation is resolved or after it isn't.

If you are offered visits etc as long as you don't discuss the incident or your wife, please take it.

There is no reason you should miss out on those relationships, and while it may hurt her, estanged people are very capable of hurting themselves anyway by looking for things online and finding pictures etc

Reach out with the offer to listen when they are ready and then just keep contact going, ask how they are, ask how the kids are, ask to see them.

There is no reason you have to go down with the ship

It looks to me as if you may have to choose between supporting your wife (and therefore affirming the son’s reasons for keeping his distance) or setting your wife’s feelings aside to rebuild a one-to-one relationship with your son without her being part of it.

I didn’t have much of a relationship with my Dad till after my Mum died, and I’m sorry about that because he missed having a part in my kids’s lives as they were growing up. She was just plain spiteful, and he honoured his marriage vows to the letter, which was a decent thing to do in one way, but as he stood by her, he was implicated in her nastiness, even though none of it originated from him.