I feel a complete failure

Hope you can enjoy your time away TGB and that things will be better when you return.

Thank you for all your advice. We will see how things progress. We are away next week so things might change when we come back!

You're not a complete failure but you are doing too much.

I'm really bewildered by the infighting on this thread at a suggestion that this family needs to establish healthier boundaries?

Grandparent boundaries:
Don't shout at me when you're angry/frustrated
Don't rely on me for cash or lifts anymore

Parent boundaries:
Make sure my son is asleep by 7.30
Keep any feelings about my life choices to yourself

I really feel sorry for this kid, I think he has a pretty sad life. He'll be 16 soon, perhaps he can choose to live with his grandparents? It sounds like they wouldn't miss him tbh. Not the grandparents job to take him on full time tbh, but might be preferable to the current situation. The parents aren't going to change how they parent in the wider family.

One thing I would say, its irrelevant that the 8yo gets to stay up later than him, the 8yo doesn't have his health conditions. Don't push back on the early bedtime because you see it as one more way that he is being infantillised. I can see how you would feel helpless to prevent all those other ways he is being humiliated and infantilised at home, but the 7.30 bedtime is not the hill to die on. A social worker would take this as "his primary carer has asked you to support this routine to prevent seizures, and you haven't done that." Just take him up to bed at 7 like another poster suggested.

Good luck.

TGB70...It's not you and you are not alone. I'm come to the conclusion many adult children who are unhappy or stressed tend to take it out on the only people who give a crap...their parent or parents.

I had this great daughter I was close to....then her husband walks out on her for a 21 year old, while my daughter was pregnant no less. They also had a 2 year old at the time. I realize now that is when my daughter's heart was ripped out and she's never been the same person. But, as much as I have cried for her, I'm done.

She took it all out on me and for the longest time I feared (and still do to an extent) she would estrange from me and I'd never see those two grandkids I love so much, especially my grandson who has always seen what has been unfair to me and he's only a kid, will turn 6 this year.

So I've learned to bite my tongue, and do what I'm told but it has indeed effected my feelings for my daughter. I still love her but in a way, she's gone and the person that replaced her does not have the same heart. She's been critical of me, even kept me away from grandkids for weeks when she was mad one time. I figure it wouldn't have been too hard for her to make it permanent, but I was lucky to get back in and I'm staying , even if I have to cheat and lie. I will not give her any excuse to ever do that again.

Sure, sometimes I feel I am being used, a lot like you feel. I not only help her with the kids but also pay for a lot of things. But grandkids are worth it. Most likely they will get most of anything we have left when we are gone.

I hope you can get back in too with your grandkids.

But 10-1, your son is not happy in his life, for whatever reason and he is taking it out on you. That's what a therapist told me about my daughter.

Sounds like you are dedicated parents and grandparents, and we are usually the ones most stepped on. I don't get it; I know others who don't care so much for their kids and even less for their grandkids, but they are the ones most wanted by both. Life is strange.

I agree that the parents have the ultimate say in how their children are cared for by their grandparents.
But I am amazed by how often small deviations in ‘the rules’ can cause such family drama.
I can’t for the life of me see how your son can object to his child’s bedtime routine, you and your wife are doing a great job.
My heart goes out to that poor boy, so it must be dreadful for you to have to witness all this unkindness and bullying, as others have said, I’ve no doubt your son will be back, and I think you should continue to support your grandchildren, but stop being at their beck and call, let them stand on their own two feet.
Lastly, you are not failures.

Social Services cannot cope with the workload they age,we are reading weekly about neglected children but years ago this is a set up would have been looked into. How many times do we hear from children bought up in disfunctional homes due to selfish parents. Why do people keep having children when they don't work and can't cope with what those they do have. I would rather live with a loving person who glad time for me.

Fleur

I'm sorry but I don't know why you are saying all this to me

OP wants to see their grandchildren, I'm just trying to help them to either achieve that or move on without shame of it doesn't work

I don't agree with the judgement in the OP and I'm only pointing out that won't help now and won't have helped in the past.

It's up to OP if changing that is something they want to do

It's their life, I'm tired if arguing over people's lives

Just let others give their advice and the OP decide if that is something that resonates with them

VS, I am sorry things did ot work out for you and your mother. Mother-daughter relationships can be very difficult- and 'blame' can come from either side, or both sides.

In this case, it seems to be that Gparents have gone way beyond what can be expected. Yes, we only see one side here- and the son may well have a different take on the reality. But sorry, if he refuses to get together and talk, then he has lost the argument already. And nver mind grand-parents- OK- but what about the children/GCs, who are the real and most important victims here.

Just because parents (GPs) are the parents, once children are adults- does not mean they are to blame, or are the only ones who have to apologise, make amends, walk on those eggs constantly, crawl and beg - or else.

This is such a sad situation. Who can the OP turn to for help and advice without risking things going much further than he wants them to, bearing in mind the alleged treatment of the younger of the two grandchildren.

I can see no evidence that the grandparents have been intransigent or uncooperative, so what more can they do to compromise in this situation? If there has been behaviour deserving estrangement, I can’t see that it has been by the grandparents.

Who can they turn to for impartial and non-interventionist (at this stage) advice? The row took place only yesterday, so feelings are raw, perhaps a break from things will bring about a change for the better, or at least a chance to think things over calmly.

I've given my advice, it's for OP

Thank you

The OP and his wife were doing the right thing VS.

If there are serious concerns for the children's welfare then you report them

If the family need support social services can provide it

That will likely destroy the relationship for good but anyone with genuine concern should be doing the right thing

But the GP's did more than compromise VS. GM stopped the bed time stories and singing when their GS went to bed at 7.30, and just because they told dad that he took sometime to go to sleep, there was a row and now they can't see him.

Not sure how this is beneficial to the boy's mental health especially as the OP has just posted how simply walking past their house reduced him to tears!!!

That's so sad TGB he must be upset if going past your house reduced him to tears.

I think leaving things for a few weeks is a good idea. Maybe a week or two without your support will make your son think again.

Fleur

I'm estranged

If people treat me awfully and cannot compromise with me to form a healthy relationship I estrange them

Yes that means losing some family members but it also saves your mental health for those you do have good relationships with

However, first, you take steps to ensure you have tried and have nothing to change about yourself

I simply quoted you VS.

The only way to achieve a good relationship with the grandchildren is to have a good relationship with the parents and the only way to achieve that, is if the parents want a good or any relationship for that matter, with the GP's.

Always making demands is not a foundation for any relationship, nor is reducing or taking away all contact with GC if you don't get your own way.

Thank you again.

We still don't know what to do. Probably best if we hold off for a few weeks (we are actually going away for a few days next week) and then see what happens. We actually saw DGS2 today going past our house, he burst into tears, so did I.

Of course, that is a given. But how do you do that if one side refuses to talk, just make more and more demands, and one side has to just take it and crawl? And be told, as we have read her so often, and as some of our friends have been told 'if you don't do exactly what we ORDER, you won't see you grand-children ever again. Hos do you calmly and sensibly find a compromise there?

Smileless I think it's funny that you quoted me as if what I was saying did not already apply to the OP actually setting much needed boundaries for themselves with the other family members

Once again, I'm not taking sides here

OP would like to see their grandchildren and I'd also like that for them

The only way to achieve a good relationship with the grandchildren is to have a good relationship with the parents

I wonder if it were the son or his partner who started this thread saying why they'd stopped the children from having sleepovers with their GP's, if their OP would be regarded as maybe not being real or distorted.

Are grand-parents always the ones who have to crawl and beg. Maybe not always Fleurpepper but it's often the case.

What else is there Fleur?

You either find a way to communicate healthily which means, you have all your ducks in a row, so you ensure you aren't saying things that will worsen the situation, like being judgemental of others lifestyle...

Or stay estranged as things stand

For me personally, I have to be sure I have tried and done things the right way, which includes apologising for times I perhaps let emotion get the better of me or said and did anything unfair

If you don't do that, estrangement will leave you in limbo where you just can't move on because no matter how hard you work to keep up the anger and blame, underneath the shame rots you

VS, TGB wrote 'He won't talk with us, it is always demands. '

so yes, perhaps this is not the reality, or is being distorted. And what if it is not. Are grand-parents always the ones who have to crawl and beg. Seems to me OP has done way way over and above what any grand-parent can be expected to do.

doesn't take each other for granted like the son's being doing with his parents, 'borrowing' money that isn't repaid, a taxi service and providing school uniforms and paying for school trips for example.

doesn't stand in judgement over each other so the GP's are stopped from having their GC for sleepovers because the son doesn't think they're following his rules, even though they are.

a healthy family dynamic where the father's partner wont eat any food that his son with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who drools prepares. A family whose members say in the child's hearing things what will at best knock if not erode any self confidence he may have.

Children being moved on a regular basis between two 'homes', spending just a few days at each; not much in the way of stability there.

^Is being 'judgemental' only wrong when it is the grand-parent, and for all the right reasons and concerns^; often looks that way Fleurpepper.

The problem is that the son and DIL aren't here to advise Fleur

So I can only advise the OP on how to proceed.. which isn't one sided

But I do feel that a lot of the comments on this sort of thread go further than empathy and into the realm of making the situation more one sided than it needs to be

Anyway I'll leave it there because I'm tired of these threads becoming unprodictive side taking and arguing

VioletSky

The ones the family come up with together in order to improve the relationship Delia

What if the son does not want to, or other adults?

Why do you think the grand-parents are automatically at fault?