Interesting watch

JaneJudge
For years and years I shouldered the blame for everything.
I know I wasn’t what they wanted, and didn’t conform to the girl they wanted me to be. I also know I was mouthy and argumentative, while my brother learned early to keep his head down.
But in my late thirties, when my last child was born, I suddenly realised that it actually wasn’t all my fault, that the way my mother treated me wasn’t normal or nice.
I was never abused, always clean, tidy and well fed, but my mother was cold and cruel, and that was her fault, even if I had been the naughtiest child imaginable, I think I would have deserved more kindness and affection than she was capable of showing.

The other thing that I think is important for anyone impacted by estrangement is moving on from being victimised by it.

When people see themselves as victims that doesn't leave any room for healing or growth. It becomes an excuse to stay static, to not self reflect, and to never be accountable.

While "everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect" is a fundamental truth, knowing what those mistakes are, examining our own weaknesses and outcomes from difficult situations, are the keys to moving forward into health.

I'd be the first person to admit I really struggled during and after the estrangement process and I had mental health outcomes from that relationship that were affecting me negatively.

But I knew I didn't have to live with all of those outcomes or I could work to help them as far as possible.

I'm not angry any more, I'm not in need of accountability or apology and I have been accountable and apologised myself.

Accountability and apology can still benefit my mother if she chooses that path, as can self reflection and working to heal herself but she is still victimising herself. It's actually very sad. No matter what sort of person she is, I feel sad for her.

Missiseff and Grannysmith

Not looking can be hard Nannashirlz, especially where there are memories of happy times that your mind is cast back too even though you'd rather not go there.

For you and Sara to have found a better life, shows that you did the right thing.

Broken relationships invariably leave unfinished business biglouise made all the harder when the person/people concerned are never far from your thoughts.

I know I was abused and the reason I know is because the logical me knows how my parent behaves (and still behaves) is cruel and abhorent but the child me, the vulnerable me, still thinks it is all my fault and will willingly take the much learned blame for it (and any other situation I was barely involved in) and that for me after many years of therapy means there will never be any reconcilation. I wanted something, a relationship, that never existed and never would do.

Other people do and say what they feel wt to them/me. People who know and love me, know differently without any explanation necessary

I haven't watched the video as I'm sitting in the lounge with my family

I feel so so sad about those of you on here who are estranged from family members, especially Parent/Child relationships and whether this was your decision or theirs I pray you find a way to reconcile and if you cannot, by choice or otherwise, I hope very much you find closure and move on at peace with yourself 😊😊🥰🥰

I made a conscious decision to completely distance myself, to the extreme point of cutting this “friend” out of my life. I’d know her since I was 19, and “put up” with all kinds of crap from her, until a few years ago when I though “enough is enough”, she’s not attempted to make contact, call or write to ask me why and I feel better for no longer having to put up with her awful attitude, crass behaviour and criticism of my children !!

Geographical distance can be a good thing DiamondLily especially if there's jealousy. It was clearly a mistake our ES and his wife moving into the same village as us (where ES grew up) and just 15 doors away.

He was always popping in for a chat and to raid the fridge. We were extremely close which from the beginning was an issue for her. The night they got engaged and we were out celebrating with them and her parents, she told me she had only child syndrome and didn't share!!!

The writing was on the wall but we just didn't see it until it was too late.

That is a shame Sara. We don't and in all likelihood will never know our only GC; it's devastating but there's nothing we can do.

People like your ex astound me DiamondLily, to have children and GC who want to have a relationship and throw it away; such a waste.

Nannashirlz
I’m pleased this has worked for you as well.
I think most people assumed I’d have a little sulk, and then gradually start to speak to her again.
Absolutely not, once I said those words, and I didn’t know I was going to say them, I felt free for the first time in my life.

The truth for me is that I did sit down and explain what needed to change for me to continue the relationship, offer joint counselling and then sent a detailed letter with examples of situations and behaviour and the harm it had caused to my mental health upon estrangement.

My mother still claims to not know why

So as I mentioned in the OP and as others have also said, there is a huge disconnect between reasons given and reasons... Well... received I suppose

Which is why that communication needs to be examined

I had a very close friendship with another women I had known 15 years. One day we had an apparently trivial difference on the phone and she asked me not to contact her for a "few weeks". I gave her headspace and then called her after 6 weeks. We chatted like old times without reference to the argument and I was lulled into thinking it was over with. She told me she was moving and I asked for her new number. She just put the phone down on me.

A few days later I got a letter from her saying she considered out differences to be "fundamental" and not to contact her again. I wrote back saying how much I valued the friendship but she never replied. So of course I left it at that.

Ive since realised that the friendship was no longer working for her and so she used an apparently trivial difference as a get out. Cowardly, yes. Because its still unfinished business.

I once sent a friendly message via Facebook but she never replied. I still often think of her.

Sara1954

I made a decision never to speak to my mother again, I’ve stuck to it for twenty years, and I shall continue to do so.
If one of her friends should ask her, and I’m sure they do, why I’ve cut her out of my life, I’m pretty sure she would say she’s absolutely no idea.
Not true, she knows exactly why I don’t want anything else to do with her, she pushed me into a corner, and I snapped, and I’m so grateful she did, because being free from her has made me happy.
I’ve no desire to build bridges, I have always taken my share of the blame, I know I’m far from perfect, but some relationships are really not worth preserving.

Did we have the same mother, I also walked away from mine 23yrs ago. She also played the innocent victim and my closest uncle knew she was lying yet he took her side because he wanted back in the family. Best decision I ever made. Some times you have to walk away and never look back.

Counselling can be very beneficial after estrangement

I agree with the above post. I have been estranged from my daughter (& 3 grandchildren) for almost 8 years & the pain & sadness just gets worse as time goes by. I will die a very unhappy old woman

Whatever the reasons, as a Mother, the pain is horrendous and gets worse with each passing day. Even though my ES told me I'd 'grieve for a bit then get used to it'. He was wrong.

Also it's easy to imagine how it looks in families.

When I look at Internet discussion for example, I quickly learn who is capable of having different opinions to each other respctfully and who is not.

Who is capable of accepting that people have different thoughts or advise to them and allowing them to try and give that help and who is not.

Who is capable of hearing that perhaps their own behaviour, opinion or methods may cause an issue with others and who is not.

Outside of anonymous forums, when people give (usually unasked for) their strong opinions to me, if engaging with them means they quickly show anger or frustration, I just don't engage them with it. Like many people, I have people at social gatherings or in work settings that I do not want to fall out with and create a hostile environment with. I will make an excuse and leave the situation.
In my own family, when differences come up, I will say my point of view listen to theirs and we will all take some time to think about it before engaging further... to avoid emotional reactions. Usually we find a compromise or we agree to disagree. No one is forced or harassed into changing their minds.

People often do not have the choice to do that in families, they cannot escape those differences, they cannot have their own thoughts heard, they cannot have their needs heard and they cannot advise the other party on how to best have a good relationship with themselves.

Arguments in close relationships can play out exactly as they do in an Internet discussion and dissolve into name calling and anger.

So it's rather easy to see how family breakdowns happen

Stand Alone, which is represented in the discussion is not about blame. They support and advise anyone struggling with estrangement which I believe is something everyone should be able to do.

The biggest causes of estrangement, (after watching the video interview with 3 different representatives) is often breakdowns in communication and values.

Perhaps the estranging parties have different opinions to each other on various things.

Perhaps the estranging parties have different opinions on acceptable lifestyles.

Perhaps the estranging parties have different opinions on how to parent.

So respecting each others differences can go a long way towards preventing estrangement.

Some ways of parenting, life styles and opinions are not a problem to the person who holds their own methods and beliefs and when the other party pushes back and says "I'm not happy with this" they cannot then see that as a valid reason when the relationship breaks down.

In the case of estrangeing chidren, in some households, children may be parented the exact same way and still come out of it with different feelings about their childhood. In some households children may be parented differently because the parent finds one child easier or more like themselves or less like themselves.

These are all things we need to be aware of in order to change the future outcomes. Broken families are an awful end for everyone involved. No opinion, value, belief or parenting style is more important than that relationship and I think we all need to be willing to listen and change to prevent this kind of breakdown.

Families large or small, friendships, work relationships, we always have more to lose.

My GCs know who their birth grandad is, but he cut them all off when they were very young, and he was out of their lives for over 10 years. And it's been flaky again and now collapsed. They just haven't got a relationship with him.

I think he's silly, and will end up a lonely old man. But, that will be his choice, so I don't get involved.

That's the trouble with estrangements - it causes a ripple effect, beyond the original couple of people involved.

Siblings, the wider family, and grandchildren get thrown into the middle of it.🙁

My daughters ex is completely estranged from his father. Therefore, two of my grandchildren have a grandparent they don’t know exists.
He lives locally, it seems sad never to know of his existence, not my business though.

Smileless2012

Coercive control is not uncommon in estrangement eddie and the first two sentences of your post describes ours, the only difference being our ES remains married.

There's nothing to be done while the controlling partner continues to have control.

Smileless and Eddiecat Yes, I've read of many estrangements, involving spouses.

It seems there is more often conflict between mothers and daughter-in-laws, than with son in laws.

I get on fine with my DIL - but, we are very different characters, and I'm not sure how it would be if they lived locally. Son and family live in America, and just visit every year or so.

She is a drama-llama, and I sometimes have to just nod and smile when they visit lol. But, my son loves her he's very happy, and that's all it needs to be really.

No problems with my SIL - he's great, and we see a lot of them.

Sometimes I think we just have to let go of some people - my grandkids are adults now, and they feel they have no relationship with my ex (their birth grandad). They said at Xmas that DH had been their grandad in all meaningful ways. A bit sad really.

Keep well. 😉

You've said that very well Sara.

My feeling is, that some relationships are beyond help, and I think in some cases like my own, there was never really a relationship in the first place, so nothing to work with.
I have a friend, should say, had a friend, a very close friend. Something happened between us that couldn’t be put right.
There aren’t many days when I don’t miss her, and regret being so stubborn about it, I miss her all the time.
But my mother, I hardly spare a thought for, she’s out of my life and I’m grateful.
Just trying to say, some people you just want to walk away from, while with others, you regret your estrangement, while knowing you can’t fix it.

Coercive control is not uncommon in estrangement eddie and the first two sentences of your post describes ours, the only difference being our ES remains married.

There's nothing to be done while the controlling partner continues to have control.

"What I call them is irrelevant to anything" of course it is DiamondLily. It's how you see them because of the estrangements and not the cause of the estrangements.

As Madgran posted yesterday, judgements are being made on estrangement based on one comment about those who've estranged.

Estranged because you wont give money to fund a drug addiction. Estranged because the estranger doesn't do "old people". A father who estranges his children for 10 years, re connects with no explanation or apology, then estranges again.

Two out of three that are clearly due to the behaviour and attitude of the EAC. The cause of these estrangements and the barriers to reconciliation are in the hands of the ones responsible for estranging.

You know the reasons, you've listened and short of funding a drug habit and as you said "finding the elixir of eternal youth" there's nothing to be done and nothing to apologise for.

The reason for our estrangement was that our ex-dil is not a nice person who didn't want her husband or children to have any relationships she couldn't control. She started by cutting off his family and then stopped him seeing his friends. She achieved this by threatening she would tell people he was hitting her and that she would stop him seeing his children if he didn't do what she wanted. She had absolutely no interest in reconciliation. I daresay she has some sort of personality disorder but putting a label on her wouldn't have helped. I know many other estranged parents are in this situation - especially when the estrangement has been instigated by an in-law. Despite this they are still being told that they must have done something wrong - which makes a heartbreaking situation much worse.

My only point was that all estrangements have different causes, and that no one knows better the causes than those actually involved. Others, saying things like "you must know the reasons" " you couldn't have listened" and "you need to apologise" is not really relevant, and actually can cause more hurt.

I have nowhere to go with the three estrangements I mentioned - one wants money for addictions (no chance), one doesn't do "old people" and has cut off his mother and MIL as well. Short of finding the elixir of eternal youth, there's nothing to be said.

My ex - well God knows. An NHS colleague of DDs thinks some of these on/off estrangements are a severe form of attention seeking by the estranger. A need for constant drama sort of thing.. Who knows? He won't say, so nothing to be said, especially by me. We haven't exchanged a word in 20 years. DD has decided to now drop the rope and let him get in with it.

What I call them is irrelevant to anything.

But, this thread isn't about my family, so that's all I'm saying about it.

I do think, there needs to be more acceptance that estrangements aren't always the fault of the EP, and that sometimes all the talking and listening in the world will not change a thing. Some situations are insoluble. B🙂