Interesting watch

well when someone is criticised as 'name calling' for describing a family member as a gutless wonder it would seem that all views are not valid.

Discussing another's personal situation is one thing, criticising the language they choose to do so is another.

*it

As this is a discussion about the causes of estrangement all views are valid and sharing our personal situation on this thread may not be a good idea if we do not actually want ur discussed

Agreement is not sought or necessary

I was talking about my circumstances. And, I stand by what I said.

No, I'm not taking responsibility for the tantrums and sulks of others, nor will I.

Other people's circumstances are different.🙂

I think it is very unfair to take one phrase and make a judgement on DiamondLily or anyone else for that matter. The term "gutless wonders" is basically an expression of the understandable anger that DiamondLily feels regarding the treatment of her DH whom she loves. In the context she uses it she is referring to their experience of either lack of explanation or possibly to her earlier reference to her step sons comments re not wanting the burden of old people and her other step sons alcohol and gambling issues not being funded by his father.

To label her "name calling" as a guide on the whole approach to the sorry situation in which her family finds itself seems rather generalised and unfair! It is so patently obvious that the nuances of their sad situation is so much more than a phrase as an expression of anger on a thread discussing Estrangement and in my view does not suggest a lack of taking responsibility atall.

Generalised judgements don't help.

Really pleased for you all PoppyBlue...Nice to know there can be a happy ending.

It's lovely to read about a happy ending PoppyBlue.

It's easy to sit down and play the blame game. I did it and it didn't make me feel any better.

Everyone is human and makes mistakes. Our estrangement started when I had my first DC and emotions are running hight on all ends but what ruined our relationship were the expections being mismatched.
I was really poorly but my health wasn't really worried about. I as the new mom wasn't considered.
Everyone wanted the baby.

I could type about it all day but what it came to is that:
She messed up.
We could of handled it better, we didn't, we were late teens. Postpartum depression etc..
We went years without seeing them.
They realised it wasn't worth arguing.
Same.
We all apologised.

14+ years and we are in the best place.

I'm not saying it's the same in every situation but accepting some blame helped, on both sides.

Ooops, the 'of Estrangement' shouldn't be there.

I can imagine that knowing that your daughter's estrangement of you and your extended family had nothing to do with your relationship, must be of some comfort grannyactivist as is now knowing the reason she took that decision, but no less painful.

You move on Bridie not easy I know but when you've done all that you can, there's nothing more you can do.

You know if you've acted out of love, shown understanding and been accountable where you needed to be and maybe one day they'll be able to see that too.

It's important and beneficial to recognise the differences and nuances of Estrangement situations isn't it Madgran and a missed opportunity especially when both EP's and EAC are taking part in the same discussion, not to do so.
of Estrangement

The explanation I got was a very reasoned one. My daughter wanted to cut my extended family from her life. To do that without including me would have put me in the position of having to choose between a continuing relationship with her - or cutting off my whole family. She made the decision for me.

I have since discovered (from a third party) the reason why she wanted to distance herself from my family and it was because she had done something that she knew to be very wrong, and that would have repercussions if it was discovered. Now that I know what her secret was I can wholly understand her actions.

I said at the time that our estrangement was nothing to do with her relationship with me, and that is still correct.

That was the top half Bridie

I was meaning people who are still alive.

You grieve in the time you need and move on

Perhaps it inspires you to make other relationships healthier in your families and friendship circles

Perhaps it inspires you to help others to do the same who still have a chance to reconcile and have a healthy relationship going forward.

Perhaps it inspires you to stand against the harm caused by others to relationships they are responding emotionally to rather than standing back and helping others find solutions.

Perhaps it inspires a whole career

Where ever it takes you as long as it takes you to a place of healing and understanding.

The grief is similar to a loved one losing their life. People need to understand why that happened, what could have been done differently and if it could have been prevented.

Those who don't move through that grieving process and can't let go of their anger never really move on.

While others move on and heal.

Still others move on and heal but continue to work towards preventing such deaths in future.

Still others heal but work to support those like themselves suffering through grief.

Still others are inspired to a career in preventing and treating the causes of death or professionally supporting the grieving.

It's personal to people themselves

Some of the comments on this thread will be based on what was said in the video discussion not the comments made here, so it may help people not to take things personally and participate clearly... if they watch it

I'm not sure people are taking things personally per se from the comments I have read ...more that the phraseology in some comments made ( which yes, may be related to the gideo) suggests closed views and they are trying to open up a recognition of all the differences and nuances of Estrangement situations and away from some of the apparently closed comments

I agree VS it is necessary to do all you can to act out of love and understanding and to be accountable...how does one proceed from this point when you have done all this and it achieves nothing?

To be honest I find name calling unproductive.

It shows a lack of ability to think clearly and rationally about another person's behaviour, what caused it and how to understand or empathise with it.

It was quite common to do this with children in the past. To either denounce the child as being their behaviour "selfish brats" being one example. Or to simply punish the child physically which we know now to be completely counter intuitive.

The focus in more recent years has grown towards understanding a child's behaviour rather than just denouncing them as "naughty" or "dificult" or "selfish" and labelling the child in a negative way with no positive outcome, especially to the child. No introspection and absolutely no thought about what the child has struggled with themselves. All behaviour has a reason. A good parent should be looking for that reason,even if finding that reason can't change the outcome.

So why would we do that with adults? Especially our own children.

I feel the same way from the other perspective. What would I accomplish by simply calling my mother names? Instead I seek to understand her behaviour. Yes she is often envious but why? What happened in her life to make her unhappy with what she has and unable to value it? What good would labelling her do with no understanding of how she came to be this way?

Understanding and empathy gives me the best chance of reconsiliation, at least from my own side. If I could help my mother to a place where she was able to reflect and be accountable. Unfortunately she could not, even after kind, calm and patient discussion and offers of joint counselling. That door only closed with time and healing because the hope was harming me but could she still demonstrate positive qualities that would allow me to open that door? Yes, yes she could. Can the relationship be as close as a mother and daughter ideally would be? No because she left it too long and I've moved too fr through the grieving process.

It's so important to know you have done everything you can, that you have been accountable and acted out of love and understanding first. Otherwise you can never move on from your own situation and will endlessly be stuck in a loop of blame and anger.

We do feel the pain of those we love DiamondLily.

Seeing how his AC are hurting your husband hurts you too, as does knowing what your ex is doing to your children.

Why on earth would anyone do that? Estrange, reconcile and then estrange again. Painful enough the first time and must be even worse when it happens again.

I'm tired of hearing that too. Some have and will listen, some haven't and never will.

I find it hard to believe people who name call during these types of discussions can honestly claim to not see how there is legit friction in a familial relationship.

‘Gutless wonders’… yes. Sounds totally blameless…

The fact is if multiple people walk away from an individual, self-reflection by the common denominator seems necessary. No party in such a situation is totally without some fault, but I couldn’t have multiple children grow up to treat me with disdain or indifference and not do some soul searching. Now a grandmother myself, I’ve lived long enough know coincidence is so much more rare than people like to think.

But, it comforts some to always point fingers outwardly. It’s just not who I am and I am thankful for that. I like to learn from my failings. I also learn from the failings of others. No one is above reproach. Anyone who thinks they are always 100% right in every conflict will surely yield the distance from family their stance calls for.

Iam64

Thanks DiamondLily for your post. I’m woman in my 70’s, I’ve personal and professional experience and so far, never met anyone who wasn’t deeply hurt by estrangement. Although childhood trauma is often present, Mental health issues, addictions of various kinds and personality problems often contribute.

Yes, estrangement is something that causes pain. It doesn't cause me on a personal level, pain that DH's ACs appear to have estranged him and me (for different "guessed at" reasons), but it causes me pain knowing how it has hurt my DH.

Especially when they freely acknowledge he was a lovely Dad.🙄

It doesn't cause me pain, on a personal level, that my ex husband estranged from our kids, for 10 years, they accepted him back, (at his behest, but with no explanation), . and now he's cut them off again, but it causes me pain with what he is doing to our adult children.

I'm tired of hearing that the estranged don't listen - the gutless wonders, in my family. haven't got the courage to say what their problem actually is, so exactly why, who, where and what does the listening involve?

I don't know. 🙄

The posted discussion was unbiased and ome of the representatives is someone estranged parents here have often spoken about

Some of the comments on this thread will be based on what was said in the video discussion not the comments made here, so it may help people not to take things personally and participate clearly... if they watch it

Happy to discuss once people have watched

Thanks DiamondLily for your post. I’m woman in my 70’s, I’ve personal and professional experience and so far, never met anyone who wasn’t deeply hurt by estrangement. Although childhood trauma is often present, Mental health issues, addictions of various kinds and personality problems often contribute.

Yes it does. Perhaps it's a generational thing. I don't really know.

And, I expect personal experiences play into personal opinions.

But, a general discussion is better than casting aspersions. We can all only read what's posted, unless we know those people on a personal level.

Still, that's forums I guess.😉

I don't understand it either DiamondLily or why if there is disbelief it's more often than not directed at EP's.