Interesting watch

These are adult relationships Smileless children estranging parents is only one aspect. There are many kinds of estrangement.

Your personal situation is your own but I think it is important for everyone remain open minded to different situations and issues that surround estrangement.

Statements such as "This does not relate to mine or many other situations" slam doors that may lead to reconciliation for some families and put road blocks in front of open discussion

I'm not doubting what you say about your m.i.l. 1yleLyle. Your experience is that you did try to explain what was wrong with the relationship and her behaviour, but that wasn't our experience and isn't the experience for all EP's.

As you say Madgran, common factors can be identified but that doesn't mean they apply in every case.

Estrangement can happen because parents don't listen and communicate calmly and rationally with their children but estrangement can and does happen when parents do.

If estrangement is to be avoided that must be a shared goal of all concerned. If one 'side' isn't prepared to listen, to make changes and accept and apologise for past behaviours then it becomes inevitable.

If we are to learn from our own and others experience of estrangement we need to accept that it is not always because of failings from parents.

don't open ears and listen is just as applicable to some EAC as it is to some EP's. Ears may be open as is the desire to listen, but there needs to be something to listen too apart from in some cases the silence, which is defeaning.

Violet I agree about Stand Alone. It is potentially helpful for anyone affected by Estrangement or fearing it, depending on their particular needs

Perhaps the differences mentioned in the discussion need more thought.

In the case of estrangement between parent/s and child, people can be quite set in their ways and not open to the younger generation doing things differently.

So as a parent myself amd being aware of estrangement having seen it in my family growing up and being estranged myself, I am very mindful that my children are growing up in a different world than I did with different needs, different expectations and of course, different opinions.

I always listen, discussions are always calm and rational. My views on life and the world we live in are ever changing and I try to always be open minded amd meet all theor views with patience and understanding.

The world is ever evolving and changing with it, especially respectfully towards my own children is one way I hope to break that cycle.

This may mean that they come to me at some time in the future with things they aren't happy about in their childhoods and that is when it will be my place to be accountable.

This may mean that I struggle with their decisions and life choices. But as adults I must respect their right to live a life that could be very different to mine or very different what I envisioned for them as they grew. Even if they make mistakes it's not my place to try to stop them only listen, support and give advice when asked.

My children are reaching adulthood 1 by one and when they are not under my roof my rules do not apply. We meet equally and respectfully as family members, no longer mother and child but mother and son/daughter except when they need mothering lol

Estrangement is something we can learn from

Estrangement doesn’t happen out of nowhere

No it doesn't. It also tends to have many different reasons and scenarios. And the reasons are not always the behaviour of the person being estranged. Nor is it always the behaviour of the person doing the estranging. Every scenario, relationship, cause of estrangement is different. Yes common factors can be identified but common factors do not mean they apply to every case.

I am a big advocate of Stand Alone and the work they do. They have done quite a lot of interesting research into estrangement amd the causes that is worth looking into.

Depends on whether it is you estranging or if you yourself have been. Listening to a programme today about narcissistic mothers, it was amazing the siblings who didn’t agree with their siblings version of events. It comes easier for some than others and what support you have, how you cope. If a young mother with a busy life juggling everything and is estranged it must be more bearable than a lonely or elderly person who has little contact with others. It has become so common now I think I’ve never met anyone that either didn’t personally have experience or know of someone that is. It’s a pity they don’t teach communication skills in school and looking relationships from all sides,

lyleLyle

That’s just not always true. My MIL told many that she never received an explanation. The truth is that in the months leading up to our separation, she was told that her overbearing, controlling, mean behavior was pushing us away. She has and still does tell people we stopped our relationship with her without an explanation. But she knows why. The semantics involved in the tedious debate of when the “final explanation” or notification happened is just not something we were interested in. She knew her behavior leading up was pushing us away. The fact that she twists it to say “I was never given an explanation” simply because she didn’t get a final letter or final relationship-ending conversation is often the same excuse some others use. It’s just more manipulation. Estrangement doesn’t happen out of nowhere.

Indeed.
Seems to be true for many people we know, don't open ears and listen.

That’s just not always true. My MIL told many that she never received an explanation. The truth is that in the months leading up to our separation, she was told that her overbearing, controlling, mean behavior was pushing us away. She has and still does tell people we stopped our relationship with her without an explanation. But she knows why. The semantics involved in the tedious debate of when the “final explanation” or notification happened is just not something we were interested in. She knew her behavior leading up was pushing us away. The fact that she twists it to say “I was never given an explanation” simply because she didn’t get a final letter or final relationship-ending conversation is often the same excuse some others use. It’s just more manipulation. Estrangement doesn’t happen out of nowhere.

When someone says they haven't been given an explanation it's because they haven't. Not agreeing that an explanation given is satisfactory/a good enough or justifiable reason, isn't the same.

I also have sympathy with anyone who felt they had no choice but to estrange.

I agree with what you say about telling the same lies over and over until they start to believe the lies themselves as this has been our experience with our ES and his wife.

You hear a lot of “I was given no explanation”. More often than not, it’s just not the explanation the other party accepts or feels is a valid enough reason. I can’t say there is never an occasion on which a family or parent is truly ghosted, but there is always a reason.

My MIL is the perfect example of never taking accountability for why she was not allowed to play a huge role in my children’s life. On the outside, she can say she was always kind. And she was…in front of others. But she was very passive aggressive. She was more of a covert bully and very manipulatively controlling with my husband and his father. It was almost as though she hated seeing how much her son loved me. I pitied her until she became unbearably wicked. People like her needle and needle and needle until the other person either caves or walks away. My husband and I walked away when he finally saw her behavior for what it was: mean, divisive, controlling, and terribly unloving. Because we did not entertain her repeated attempts to manipulate and bait us, she went on her character assassination campaign. Like a bully, she told anyone and everyone who would listen how her daughter in law took away her son and her grandkids. Covert bullies always need to get their side out to as many people as possible to rally other against their “foes”. They will tell the same lies over and over and over until they start to believe the lies themselves. I guess you can say we chose to ghost her rather than take on the stress and negativity. We left the country and she found out through relatives. My children are now all adults, and while they have wonderful connections with my side, they really have no relationship with her now. I guess I’m saying that estrangement is never easy. There is never an easy way to break ties with family. I’m not going to judge anyone who finds their peace, even if others don’t accept the manner in which they achieved it. The stress of toxic relationships can literally kill people. I have sympathy for anyone who feels so pushed to the brink that they have to estrange.

I remember eddiecat. Thank goodness there is non judgemental support available, because there's nothing you can do if the other person/people have no desire to resolve the situation and that can be the person whose been estranged or the person estranging.

Smileless2012

We're certain that's why we were estranged eddiecat but have no idea why our son went along with it. At least she had the courage to admit how wrong she'd been, even if it took 5 years but you can't get those years back can you.

Absolutely Smileless - and you helped me survive that nightmare! I'm sure the majority of people who are cut off do everything they can to try to put things right, but how can you do that if the other person has absolutely no interest in reconciliation and refuses to discuss anything! Sadly I think there are people who just want to interact with their own friends (and family) and will come up with any excuse as to why they shouldn't see anyone else

We're certain that's why we were estranged eddiecat but have no idea why our son went along with it. At least she had the courage to admit how wrong she'd been, even if it took 5 years but you can't get those years back can you.

10 years ago our dil announced, completely out of the blue, that she wasn't going to see us again . (And that extended to the grandchildren not being allowed to see us). We asked repeatedly what we had done wrong but she refused to communicate with us. Five years later when she and DS divorced she admitted we had done nothing and that she had been unreasonable. The fact is that it suited her better not to have in-laws in her life

It would depend who you speak too. Not everyone who estranges will have made a conscious decision never to speak to a person again, but some will have.

"You are no longer a part of mine and ..... life and are to stay away". The conscious decision to never speak to us again was pretty clear.

You may not agree with how many people who've been estranged who say they've been given no reason but unless you know them, know their family circumstances and know the person whose estranged them, you're not in a position to judge, and even then, there's a lot that happens in families that those outside of the family have no knowledge of.

I wouldn't feel comfortable if someone said they didn't agree with how many people say they had no choice but to estrange.

Both responses are judgemental and can make either the EP or EAC feel unable to talk about their experience, which in turn can prevent them from seeking and finding the support they need.

There are problems and disagreements in all families but they don't always result in estrangement. We know a couple of families who've had years of what we would think is dysfunctional behaviour, but as a family unit remain close.

I've never seen an EP say they needed a physical list of reasons by way of an explanation. 'I can't have a relationship with you because..........' is an explanation. It also gives the one being estranged an opportunity should they wish to take it, to try and resolve the situation.

Avoiding estrangement and when it's happened, successfully reconciling requires communication. A coming together, with a mutual desire to listen, to understand and to accept one's failings and apologise.