Interesting watch

Years and years trying to make my relationships work

When I heard from my cousin all the lies that had been told about me (only family member I am in contact with in secret) I suddenly realised how much work my mother had done to keep me seperate to my own family

My cousin is a kind and sweet person, we had spent a lot of time together in childhood as we are the same age, she had never believed my mother as an adult but the rest of the family, are all very drama centric and she bends over backwards keeping things pleasant with her own sister and parents so, we talk in secret.

Yes we were estranged at the same time Allsorts and I think it probably took me about 5 years to make real progress, and a lot of that was due to the fact we moved after 4 years.

It was such a relief go get away from them, sounds awful doesn't it, but never knowing if we'd see them when we going out or going home was incredibly stressful. I never believed we could rebuild our lives while they lived just up the road from
us.

I didn't have to make the move alone which made it easier but getting to the point of making that decision was very hard for Mr. S.. We put the house on the market but took it off again because he really didn't want to leave. I'd given up my gift shop because I was supposed to have our GC to help with childcare and being at home all the time just made it intolerable.

Mr. S. was still running our main business which helped although how he managed to function at all in the beginning remains a mystery to me. Staying there was making me ill so back on the market it went and the rest as they say is history.

Did you take a lot for granted? I wonder. You were busy with raising a family and working to provide for them. Not ever thinking for one moment that you would be estranged isn't because you took them and your life for granted.

I'd never even heard of AC estranging their parents which was why finding that first thread here on GN 10 years ago was such a blessing. The relief of knowing we weren't alone and finding others who understand and gave support was literally a life saver.

You might not be stuck in a time warp Allsorts. You often day that moving is what you need to do, but maybe it isn't.

I try and do as you when I'm out and if I'm getting irritated because an elderly shopper is having a conversation with the person at the check out, I remind myself that they maybe going home to an empty house.

What a bizarre thing to do DiamondLily, telling your toddler GC that their father isn't their father. Why would someone do that and teach them how to swear!!!

There’s an assumption that estrangement happens too easily. DiamimibdLily’s 7 year history of trying to make a relationship work is in my experience much nearer to the truth.

Allsorts

The person doing the estrangement holds all the cards. Some one said their mil was rude and overbearing so never saw her again, did they try ever try discussing it and how she could alter her ways. They might well have done several times I dont know. I have found a few dil's are jealous of the love their husband feel for his mother and once a wife they wont share. We raise sons, with our values and ways, they fall for that man, mil is history. Eventually son and children realise this. My Dil is not like that, she is closer to her own family but is loving to me. I never knew why my d estranged me, but now I do now. People hate you because they see you as a threat, want to be you or are jealous of you.

Well, I estranged my MIL, and I had no feelings about her relationship with my ex. It was what it was, She wasn't overbearing with the kids, never wanted to babysit or anything.

But, she did keep telling my toddlers that their Dad wasn't their dad (he was lol), and teaching them to swear etc.

Not good, the nursery were going nuts....🙄

It just got too much, although I did try for 7 years, and it was just about protecting the children.

I wish it could have been different, but it wasn't.🙁

I never regretted walking away though.

You and I were estranged at the same time time Smileless until I was trolled off. Moving has made such a difference to you and I should do it but I’m stuck in this time warp. I remember initially the disbelief, hurt and the puzzlement of it all and it’s taken me years to get to here. I wish it hadn’t taken all that time to realise that someone who does that to you isn’t the person you loved so much. As mothers we seek to see what we could have done to cause the estrangement, we look for what was it I did. Except in very extreme cases where it’s necessary to distance from toxic people, there is no excuse, we know we are not capable of putting that kind of hurt onto anyone, never mind your own family. You let go. Getting old isn’t easy, without someone there to love and be loved by and makes it a lonely place, I take the time every time I go out to pass time of day with people on their own as so many go back to an empty home. I took a lot for granted when young and fitting work, children and home into 24 hours. Perhaps when our children get old they might contemplate what effect their absence had on us and wonder was it worth it.

We raise sons, with our values and ways, they fall for that man, mil is history yes it's incomprehensible Allsorts when there's jealousy from the son's wife/partner of the relationship they have with their mum, to the extent that they become estranged.

The person doing the estrangement holds all the cards. Some one said their mil was rude and overbearing so never saw her again, did they try ever try discussing it and how she could alter her ways. They might well have done several times I dont know. I have found a few dil's are jealous of the love their husband feel for his mother and once a wife they wont share. We raise sons, with our values and ways, they fall for that man, mil is history. Eventually son and children realise this. My Dil is not like that, she is closer to her own family but is loving to me. I never knew why my d estranged me, but now I do now. People hate you because they see you as a threat, want to be you or are jealous of you.

Sometimes, you have to stay away. I estranged my ex MIL in about 1980, because she was damaging to my (then), young children.

I never looked back, or gave her much thought after that. I did tell her exactly why she was out of my life, but that was it.

She died, I think, last year, and I'd never clapped eyes on her since 1980, I certainly wouldn't have provided care or rocked up to her funeral. 🙂

It sounds as if you've done the right thing DeeJaysMum. Sometimes opening that door is the wrong thing to do.

Several years ago I decided that my life would be far better without the toxicity brought to it by my mother and sister, so I told them exactly why and walked away.
My mother accused me (for over 3 decades) of lying about a very significant matter, and my sister always took her side in any argument, so my decision wasn't made lightly.
Last year I had a lapse in judgement and sent my sister a birthday card, which was followed up by an accusation of my having put no postage on the envelope (even though she sent a photo of the envelope and it clearly had enough postage on it). So I decided that I'll never do it again.
It was my birthday recently, and my sister texted 'happy birthday', she's never done anything without an ulterior notice where I'm concerned, so determined not to be drawn into her games, I sent one back telling her to leave me alone and made the point of blocking her number.
Some people deserve to be blocked from our lives!

No worries VS.

OK Smileless

As I've said, I've posted from my experience and perspective as an EP, so on a personal level our ES wanting to take care of either of us and our wanting him to do so is bizarre.

Also, none of the EP's I know would welcome it.

OK, well I can understand your perspective and how you feel about that situation and i hope you can find a way to make sure your wishes are respected but I can't understand why you find it bizarre in general that there are estranged children who would and are doing this Smileless

I'm posting from my perspective and experience as an EP VS. I've made my comments in a generalised way and they're not intended to be an observation of your personal situation.

I don't really understand why you would think it bizarre that I would step up and care for my elderly mother should it be needed and she was not opposed or capable of ɓing opposed Smileless or that there are estranged children who feel the same or already doing this

Many estranged children loved their estranged parent deeply and it is not their fault they had to save themselves from the relationship

Some estranged children would not consider doing this and that does not mean they did not once love their patent either, they should never feel pressured by anyone and should do what is best for themselves and the people close to them

There's a big difference for me between EP's/EGP's who never stop trying to have a relationship with their EAC and GC and an EAC whose never reconciled, deciding they want to care for the elderly and/or infirm parent they estranged and never reconciled with.

I find it quite bizarre TBH but as you say everyone's different.

Smileless
Spot on, on every point.
No I won’t go to her funeral, I can take the criticism, if there is any, and of course it’s not just a card, as you say, it’s opening a door. But to a nine year old boy who thinks his mum is the centre of his world, it seems such a simple thing to do.

It has been spoken of here Smileless and does happen

There are also estranged parents who never stop trying to have a relationship with their children or grandchildren

Everyone is different

I tend to try and validate anyone using those terms to figure out their situation, its an important part of the healing journey for many. It's just simpler at times to use those descriptive terms to describe the thousand papercuts that can end a relationship.

I know I myself have struggled to give examples that others can validate and empathise with. To explain that one inciden that hurt is just a small.piece in a larger puzzle.

There is a danger then of being told it is not enough it is not valid, it does not justify estrangement until you can get enough out enough reasons enough puzzle pieces.

Whereas if someone asks after my family now and it is a person who I am open to knowing this truth of estrangement because we are becoming friends, I can say that my mother was emotionally abusive, she spent a great deal of time gaslighting me, that she used DARVO against all my attempts to make things right. Then I can just explain the terms, I do not have to look for enough puzzle pieces and I do not have to hurt myself in the moment by revisiting specific examples

I've seen posters who have had low contact speak of caring for that particular relative usually mum, but have never come across the person whose estranged, going back to care for the one they estranged prior to some form of reconciliation.

I know where that's happened too DiamondLily to the distress and fury of other family members.

When the time comes Sara you must do what you're comfortable with, not what others think you should or expect you to do.

'But she's your mum'; 'but s/he's your daughter/son'; it's infuriating isn't it. Perhaps those who say these things would feel differently if it was their mum, son or daughter.

It's not simply a matter of just sending a card though is it. It's whether or not doing so opens a door you wish to remain closed and perhaps, inadvertently giving hope of reconciliation where there is none.

The education is there VS but there also needs to be the will to put it to use. As you say, we know violence can perpetuate violence and that abuse can perpetuate abuse.

The abusive parent who excuses their behaviour because they were abused. The sexual abuser of children who excuses their behaviour because they were sexually abused as a child. What should be used as prevention is used by some as an excuse, a defence.

It's good that there's so much information available on line but I think that can bring about its own problems. The need to use labels and psychologically based diagnosis and terminology with little or no understanding of what they actually mean. There's an abundance of the use of narcissism, gas lighting, DARVO, ghosting etc. which aren't always appropriately used.

Janejudge it's so important to grab all the joy in life you can, I so agree

I don't think my mother ever finds much joy in life exceot being angry, playing victimised or putting herself in the middle of a drama

Realistically my mother and I look extremely alike, photos of us both in our 20s, we could be twins! But I have a completely different set of wrinkles to her and my face is aging completely differently because I smile and laugh a lot and rarely frown

I know what you mean VS. My husband and his sibling fight (it is one sided really - not him) and the person it hurts the most is their elderly parents. It just seems far too difficult for his sibling to be happy, they just wallow in misery and for no good reason we have an adult child witha severe disability and the stress that brings but we are happy and find joy in life. I really haven't got the time to be over complicating my adult relationships

I would not attend my mother's funeral but I think with some members of my family it would be seen as "wrong" whether I went or not. Its tricky

I've used age appropriate language with my 2 younger children because one is autistic and one was too young to have memories of their grandparents.

My older children, it was the reverse. They had picked up on times I was not treated well and times they were not treated well or treated differently. They were also able to compare their grandparents with the grandparents of their peers. Also, they were made uncomfortable by questioning that happened about me and my parenting that stood put to them because they were happy in their home life.

I think the fact that I had more children and children of different sexes made things stand out more to them as well. One was favouritsed, one was scapegoated, others ignored. If I had had less children perhaps it would have been less apparent to my children and things would have worked out differently for them and possibly for me too.

Most of what I have learned about why my mother is the way she is happened after estrangement.

These days the information I found or was given by professionals is far more readily available and known. On most social media I see articles go by about narcissism or gaslighting or mental health issued and theor causes.

It can feel like an epidemic because quite a large amount of people I know are estranged from a family member or keep contact with a family member to a minimum.

That's not what we want in a healthy society, broken families, too many people unable to access the love and support they need.

We all know violence perpetuates violence in any form and at some point I hope educating people on these matters will work as a preventative

No, I didn't really love my mum. But, for the sake of my kids, I didn't estrange her, and when she needed care, I did my duty.

I didn't, and haven't, shed a tear about her death though.😗

I think it’s tricky, I won’t go to my mother’s funeral when the time comes, I couldn’t be that much of a hypocrite.
But my husband and children will go, and I have a feeling they might think I should.
My grandson came back from a visit, and said, all she wants to make her happy is for you to send her a Christmas card, he thought it was so simple.
I never say anything against her, I just say we don’t get on.
But she’s your mum, they innocently say, everyone loves their mum.