Feeling just so mentally drained from it all….

estrangement the situation, not Estrangement the forum topic...

Although it's easy to see why you thought that Smileless

Thank you Allsorts. We see so many posts from those walking on eggshells to avoid estrangement which sadly in the long term even if it does work, become stressed and anxious in case they say or do the wrong thing.

The healthiest relationships are reciprocal, there needs to be respect from all sides and a desire to make the relationship work which often requires compromise.

I'm so pleased you've found this forum a lovely space to share and find support Adviceplease and that posting here has made you feel better.

There are several regulars who will be here if and when needed .

I think to just lower your expectations Adviceplease, as you have said, sounds sensible. Smileless was not being manipulative, just not be so readily available that’s all and appear too needy. Which is how I think I became, I just used to drop anything I had planned if my d suggested meeting.. I don’t think those that haven’t been estranged can understand how it lowers your confidence and you do walk on eggshells trying to avoid it.
I worked full time, had a husband and children, just as busy but always made time for my folks because I wanted to.

Thank you Pascal...
I'm going to....let her come to me when she is ready...she knows I am here. But guess it's just too difficult atm.

I think this forum is a lovely space to share and support Smileless TY you made me feel welcome

I do feel better and that was the point of posting.

Just give her lots of space and time...it sounds as though she has a lot ofthings to cope with... she might then ask for your help

the problem is that is not a happy place really VS.

There are some very encouraging posts from those who have been estranged and have been the ones who have estranged. Of course there is heartache which is only to be expected when a precious relationship comes to an end or is believed to be at risk, but there are pages and pages of examples of what so many have done to move on with their lives.

When the dark clouds gather as they do from time to time regardless of how much time has passed, what better place to share than the estrangement forum where there's support and friendship, regardless of the circumstances.

No one here, especially those of us who have been estranged advocates estrangement.

What kind of relationship does OP's daughter envision?

Adviceplease

Nothing wrong with giving her some space

You are of course welcome on this forum, the problem is that it is not a happy place and if you can avoid estrangement, that's always for the best.

Whatever the past issues are, while there is still some communication there is hope. As long as you are accountable which leads to genuine apology and change, there is always that chance for positive progress (I'd say the same to your daughter)

Wishing you the best

So true gsm above post

That sounds like the right approach Advicepleaseand you did the right thing posting on the estrangement forum.

Whether it's because the number of estrangements is increasing, or people feel more comfortable talking about it, the fear of being estranged can be very real and very upsetting.

I hope the situation resolves itself and you'll feel comfortable posting here whenever you feel the need.

Take care and the very best of luck.

VS - I'm not doing nothing...I've done loads of reaching out, email, whatsapp, texts, not all the same week...that would be intense. Just tried different ways, as she seemed to have disappeared and not replying. I just appreciate that maybe she just needs some space as other people have advised. My expectations are changing, I don't expect anything...doesn't mean that I am not hurt or sad or feel disappointed. It's something I need to accept.

Hetty, I think you could be right....she has got upset with me in the past and I think it upsets her partner when she's upset. I understand...my intention was never to hurt them or upset them, but sometimes we say things that get misconstrued. Anyway...I've tried to explain and apologise over the past few months and was told to stop apologising. I think I just need to give her space and time, and appreciate that she is very busy. She knows I want to be supportive and the Mum she wants me to be, but if she can't move forward, I can't make her. So I do need to change my expectations. Thank you.

We also have to understand that when our children are grown up and have partners and eventually children of their own, we are no longer dependent on us or as important in their lives as we were, whilst they are as important to us as they were on the day they were born . That’s the natural order of things but it’s hard to adjust mentally, though adjust we must.

I’m sure you did a lot Hetty. It’s unfortunate that many older people have absolutely no idea what it’s like to have a demanding job, a family to care for perhaps single-handedly on a very tight budget, and rarely a moment to draw breath. And mobile phones make us constantly accessible. Their own experiences would have been so very different.

I don't think the best approach is to just let it be and sit back and do nothing

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Would you really be happy with nothing?

I think the best approach is to change your expectations and meet half way, then you can begin strengthening the relationship from there

Adviceplease, it could be that her partner tries to 'protect' her and discourages contact. I know that my children did. They'd answer 'She's out, can I take a message?' as they realised that contact left me feeling upset.

Thank you all for your messages...think I'm going to just focus on me and give her space...tbh I don't want to be intense or come across that way, just very worried as she'd seemed so lovely a month ago. Thanked me for a lovely day and gift, and then no more whatsapp, texts, as we had said we'd arrange something with her partner. Then at Easter she sort of disappeared, and it was my birthday too. It just seemed odd, and I did try and find out if I'd done something wrong, but D has said since that she is just very busy. So I'm going to stop worrying and let her be.....BTW it does feel like an estrangement hence me posting here. I thought this would be the best place to get advice on my situation. I do feel very hurt. TBH I can appreciate how busy she is, and relationships can be very delicate when we have gone through so much upset in the past. We've both admitted and that and moved forward. So I guess I must just let it be.

Which you did VS.

I don't like it being implied that the advice I gave is suggesting that the OP plays mind games.

Thanks, GSM - she made me feel horribly guilty (still do) for not doing more.

I know it's up to OP, so wanted to address the way I would view that and possibly the daughter too Smileless

A salutary lesson to us all Hetty.

I do remember avoiding the phone calls from my mother. We were never close and, as she got older, she seemed so selfish and too demanding. She expected far too much from my siblings as well.

If I answered her call, it would be a two hour 'conversation' - well, being quizzed, really, about the children, my plans etc. then told about her many minor health problems - all with a heavy dose of criticism and complaints about everyone, including family members. It was very far from pleasant.

She got wise to my excuses e.g. 'There's somebody at the door' ('I'll hold') 'I have to go' ('No, don't you interrupt, I haven't finished speaking') and so on.

I think it was an 'ownership' thing - or 'control', as she felt entitled to disrupt my day, anytime, for no good reason.

(She had plenty of paid help at home, help from my siblings, I ordered her shopping, others regularly took her out etc. - there was really no good reason for it.)

Yes, I was busy, (very busy, early mornings, midnight marking) teaching and raising four kids, widowed and short of cash. There just wasn't any give and take with her - it was all take - and all so bloody negative and depressing.

So, I'd say, any contact, keep it short and sweet, keep it positive and interesting - maybe text or email rather than phone.

Of course it isn't manipulation VS. It does no harm sometimes for someone to know that someone isn't at their beck and all and goes hand in hand with not being too needy.

What you appear to consider to be mind games I consider to be sound advice, and of course it's up too Adviceplease what she decides to do.

That sounds very much like manipulation Smileless and I'm sorry but I really don't think we should play mind games with these important relationships

It's hurtful and difficult to understand Adviceplease especially when our relationship with our own mother's is so different .

It wont be easy but try not to contact her because as you say chasing her may do more harm than good. Wait for her to contact you and when she does perhaps be a little less available for example, if she suggests time and date for you to meet up, say you'd love too but aren't free then, and suggest a different day and time.

Doing so would be a gentle reminder that your life doesn't revolve around her and could help her to be a bit more appreciative.

Mollyplop it's been more than 10 years or us too since we saw our ES and only GC. It's called a living bereavement for very good reason.

Time does take the edge off the pain but it never goes away completely and can suddenly hit for no apparent reason.