Anything I've missed to prevent estrangement

Perhaps you should give your parents, and yourself, a break. Accept that their parenting days are over, as is your childhood. You’ve tried so many approaches, they haven’t worked and asking more than they can give is hardly likely to bring about the result you’re hoping for.

Sara1954

DiamondLily
I fully agree.
We weren’t physically abused, apart from the odd smack, and that certainly wasn’t uncommon in any household on our estate.

But as I grew up, I realised what a normal upbringing was like as opposed to ours.

I was always hanging around other people’s homes, always fascinated by the warmth and affection, not jealous, just enjoying my time there.

I loved my dad, but I don’t even like my mum, I feel I have a right to walk away.

You absolutely have a right to walk away, Sara. I know many of these estrangement cases are complicated, and without direct knowledge of the circumstances we can't easily assign blame in either direction. But when abuse is involved (and emotional abuse and neglect are just as abusive as physical abuse), there's no question. You are fully entitled to protect yourself at the expense of your abuser's feelings.

DiamondLily
I fully agree.
We weren’t physically abused, apart from the odd smack, and that certainly wasn’t uncommon in any household on our estate.

But as I grew up, I realised what a normal upbringing was like as opposed to ours.

I was always hanging around other people’s homes, always fascinated by the warmth and affection, not jealous, just enjoying my time there.

I loved my dad, but I don’t even like my mum, I feel I have a right to walk away.

I think it depends on individual temperament, and what (if) any abuse involved.

Some just jog on with their parents, regardless, some need low contact, and some require no contact.

It's difficult to advise others, because no one knows the full story.

We are all individuals. 🙂

Smileless2012

'Blood's thicker than water' is attributed to Sir Walter Scott and his 1815 novel 'Guy Mannering'. He had 4 children and it is said that his reputation as a husband and father is irreproachable.

Thank you

I expect he would be horrified to hear it used as a stick to beat children of abusive parents with

Fenchurch, you owe them nothing. You are in a better place these days, purely through your own actions, not theirs. Do you really want to keep those low feelings about yourself being stoked up every time you see them?
I had counselling some years ago, my parents were feckless, always money for the pub, but not to keep us clean and fed properly. But I have 9 siblings, and we cared for each other and helped each other. Some of us remain very close to each other, and the counsellor said this is typical, you clung together to get through, and these relationshionships are the important ones in my life now.
You must step away, you are re-enforcing their so called believed right to treat you in any way they can. You do not need to subject yourself to this, keep them at arms length, cos you are never going to win this one.

'Blood's thicker than water' is attributed to Sir Walter Scott and his 1815 novel 'Guy Mannering'. He had 4 children and it is said that his reputation as a husband and father is irreproachable.

I believe the actual saying goes something like. "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb"

I don't know why someone changed it, possibly a bad parent lol

Chocolatelovinggran

Sara and VioletSky your posts make such hard reading. I am so glad to hear that you have been able to break the cycle and lead happy lives for you and yours. It must have been a tough road to travel.

It's a strange one

I have a really good relationship with my daughter's, sometimes when we spend time together I find myself wishing I had that growing up or at least something that wasn't the opposite.

I think being a parent is really the most important role in life and when it goes wrong the devastation it can cause... I really hope one day we can get to a place where all children have a positive childhood

I do think that 'blood's thicker than water' is a myth Sara; 'you can choose your friends but can't choose your family' is much more sensible.

Low contact does work for some biglouise, achieved by not initiating contact and always being available but as you say, with technology so many ways of getting in touch are available today, it's not as easy to achieve as it used to be.

Sara and VioletSky your posts make such hard reading. I am so glad to hear that you have been able to break the cycle and lead happy lives for you and yours. It must have been a tough road to travel.

Violetsky
I agree with you.
My mother makes me the worst possible version of myself, I feel like a different, nicer person since she’s been out of my life.

I took a break, the way they were treating me left my mental health shredded and I needed help.

I offered for them to see the children and they said no without me. I realized that they had not had any of my children without me for over 10 years. They had only wanted my eldest who wouldn't go without his brother. I realised they had never done a school run, come to a performance or an event.

I was advised by professionals my family was the problem, my children were telling me how she had hurt them or how she had hurt me in front of them and they didn't want the relationship either.

Estranging caused a lot of guilt, this was my mother but my life completely changed afterwards and I became a better person, mentally and physically healthier. This meant my children were happier too.

Emotionally abusing and neglecting children carries a sentence the same way other types of abuse carry a sentence. That sentence is estrangement.

They aren't meant to like it. They have received the judgement they deserved.

Biglouis
That wouldn’t have worked for me. I would have been constantly fretting and worrying about the next time I had to see them.
It would have been impossible not to include them in Christmas/birthday celebrations, my children continue to see her, my oldest is very good to her, does a very long drive once a month to take her shopping, so in some ways it’s not a complete break, because I still have to hear what she thinks about me!
But it’s good enough.

You do not need to do the whole "No Contact" thing - just ration the time you spend with them, ignore their ways and get on with enjoying your life

I found this the best way by simply doing what is now termed "stepping back". I was never estranged from my parents in the sense that we did not speak. For much of the time I simply forgot they were there and made it difficult for them to contact me - busy life in another city/job which involved travel/only landlines and old tape ansaphones then. I never initiated contact.

With todays texting, smart phones and email its more difficult to do distance.

I know it sounds simplistic, but blood isn’t really thicker than water, and you wouldn’t tolerate friends treating you in this way

We share the same primary aim Really. I too want the OP or anyone faced with this decision to feel secure in the knowledge that whatever they decide, it's the right thing for them.

Some good suggestions and thoughtful advice has been given and it's up to Fenchurch to decide what she wants to take on board on what her decision will be.

VioletSky

Really3

I think sometimes estranged children come here because they think it's the big validation.

There are so many places for estranged children but few where you will find estranged parents too

But I have spent countless hours here arguing against comments exactly as you describe. Patiently explaining my own situation.

The truth is, the opportunity to argue and to get a reaction to prove some sort of "wrong doing" by the other side is wanted and needed by some and it's a sad reality here, that and the passive agreements.

So it's best to concentrate on talking to those who are genuinely looking for real advice and who are capable of hearing real constructive criticism

VioletSky that is a very fair assessment. I just would hate for Fenchurch to read some of these comments and feel like she isn't doing enough, that avoiding her abusive parents would be the wrong move, or that she can't both love them and need to avoid contact for her own wellbeing.

My primary aim here was to make sure that she feels secure in her choice to cut contact if she needs it, because it is very much a good choice in these circumstances and there is no magic alternative like she asked. Pretty much every alternative to estrangement will mean continued abuse, and she doesn't need to endure that (and wouldn't need to even if she weren't going through chemo). I hope she knows it doesn't make her a bad daughter or a bad person.

Really3

I think sometimes estranged children come here because they think it's the big validation.

There are so many places for estranged children but few where you will find estranged parents too

But I have spent countless hours here arguing against comments exactly as you describe. Patiently explaining my own situation.

The truth is, the opportunity to argue and to get a reaction to prove some sort of "wrong doing" by the other side is wanted and needed by some and it's a sad reality here, that and the passive agreements.

So it's best to concentrate on talking to those who are genuinely looking for real advice and who are capable of hearing real constructive criticism

Smileless2012

In her OP Fenchurch said "All suggestions greatly received" and suggestions have been made.

My reading of the OP is that despite all she's been through, she is not convinced that estrangement is the right decision. No one's disputing that estrangement wouldn't be right or appropriate, but those of us who sense there's an element of indecision have offered alternative suggestions.

Anyone considering estrangement which is a huge and life changing decision, needs to be certain that for whatever reason, there is no alternative. Considering alternatives is a good way of being confident that whatever the final decision may be, it is the right one.

I haven't seen any suggestions that the OP is in anyway obligated to continue with her relationship with her parents Really3 so I don't see any need for it be said "shame on anyone suggesting otherwise".

The vast majority if not all responses have urged her to put her health and well being first, and rightly so.

There any MANY comments suggesting or implying that the OP is obligated to continue contact. People saying stuff like “can you not just go and be civil” or “*you seem a tad over dramatic to me*” or “For me love doesn’t mean walking away, it means setting good boundaries” or “Ithink this is what you must doFenchurch. You do not need to do the whole "No Contact" thing - just ration the time you spend with them, ignore their ways and get on with enjoying your life” all suggest that continued contact is the best course. Would you consider those comments appropriate if it was her husband abusing her instead of her parents?

Comments like "you might not need to estrange your parents if you're able to develop tools and coping mechanisms” suggest that the OP is somehow not doing enough if she’s continuing to be harmed by the abuse.

And comments like this:

“*You may unintentionally be giving the wrong impression here, but to me you are coming across as judgemental, intolerant, unsympathetic, controlling and patronising. Perhaps it is not just your parents who need a change of attitude.*”

Are absolutely deserving of shame. How cruel to say that to an abuse victim who is trying to protect herself while going through chemo, and who has already gone above and beyond trying to support people who abused her and her siblings.

I also don't think that estrangement should only occur when there's no alternative, especially if the alternative includes continued exposure to abuse (and therefore secondary exposure to the abuse for her children, who are absolutely absorbing this dynamic).

I don’t think you can really put yourself in someone else’s shoes, we can give our opinions, try and make her feel better, but really it’s a decision only she can make.
I think most of us would give it our best shot, but there comes a time when it’s just a waste of everyone’s time and energy.
I always said that if I could have conjured up one happy memory it would have been enough, but there was just sadness, and ultimately dislike.

In her OP Fenchurch said "All suggestions greatly received" and suggestions have been made.

My reading of the OP is that despite all she's been through, she is not convinced that estrangement is the right decision. No one's disputing that estrangement wouldn't be right or appropriate, but those of us who sense there's an element of indecision have offered alternative suggestions.

Anyone considering estrangement which is a huge and life changing decision, needs to be certain that for whatever reason, there is no alternative. Considering alternatives is a good way of being confident that whatever the final decision may be, it is the right one.

I haven't seen any suggestions that the OP is in anyway obligated to continue with her relationship with her parents Really3 so I don't see any need for it be said "shame on anyone suggesting otherwise".

The vast majority if not all responses have urged her to put her health and well being first, and rightly so.

From experience, I'd say that estrangement should be a last resort, but it's obviously up to people to do what they think best.

But, before all this, the poster needs to sort out her health.

I went towards minimal contact for about ten years, but I was still dissatisfied with the situation, in some ways it was worse.
I’m so relieved to be free of her.
Last Christmas she told my granddaughter to ask me to send her a Christmas card because it would make her so happy, but it would also be opening a door I want left firmly closed.
Anyway, all she’s really trying to do is to get my granddaughter to feel sorry for her.
When I think back to all the years I tried so hard to be the best daughter I could be, I actually left my husband home alone one Christmas while the children and I visited them, they wouldn’t have him in the house, his terrible crime? He had a brief and disastrous marriage when he was very young.
I feel really ashamed that I did that, but I was always trying.

Someone on this forum was once naive enough to suggest that being child free I was "jealous" of family life.

Families can be dark and sinister places within which many dreadful crimes are committed. My own experiences led me to reject family life entirely. Whenever I have a significant choice to make I am pragmatic enough to ask "how does this serve me" or "what will it cost".

The same is true of relationships.