Anything I've missed to prevent estrangement

DiamondLily

Many have suggested that the poster sort out her health care before anything else.

We all have to make our own decisions about estrangement.

I agree that we all have to make our own decisions about estrangement. But many of the comments here aren't just saying "do what you feel is best" or "here are alternatives if you absolutely don't want to estrange." Instead, they're suggesting and supporting the idea that Fenchurch is in some way obligated to continue contact with their abusers, and in some cases insulting Fenchurch for even considering estrangement. And I feel that that is wrong.

While estrangement may be an extreme step, it is absolutely an appropriate step in cases of abuse. If you abuse your children, you lose any right to their continued contact, even if it hurts your feelings.

Many have suggested that the poster sort out her health care before anything else.

We all have to make our own decisions about estrangement.

I really don't understand many of the replies here. I haven't posted on this forum before, but I've read many of the posts and comments, and one sentiment that appears to be near-universal is the idea that estrangement is justified when abuse is present. Yet here we have Fenchurch clearly stating that they were abused and neglected not only as a child (even to the extent that as a teen they gained custody of their younger siblings), but also that the abuse continues into adulthood.

Despite the clearly stated abuse, Fenchurch is getting all sorts of comments suggesting that they should not estrange their parents or that no contact isn't warranted. These comments range from insults, calling Fenchurch " judgemental, intolerant, unsympathetic, controlling and patronising" or saying they're a "tad over dramatic" to suggesting things like therapy or low contact methods, despite Fenchurch saying that they've already done all those things without success. Even using strategies like keeping the conversations centered on the parents or leaving when abuse begins has left Fenchurch in tears and needing time to recover between visits. So why so many comments suggesting Fenchurch continue to subject themselves to abuse?

Fenchurch, please to do not feel pressured to maintain contact with your parents. They are doing you continued harm at a time when you really need to look after yourself. And it isn't just about you. I see that you mentioned children--think of the message that you're sending them by continuing to subject yourself (and them?) to the abuse of your parents. Even if it's not intentional, your children will pick up on the notion that it's okay to treat others so unkindly. But it isn't. You deserve better. Please take care of yourself. You do not owe abusers your time or energy, and shame on anyone suggesting otherwise.

It was suggested to Fenchurch that she tell her parents that because of her health and ongoing treatment she would be stepping back, not ask for a break because as you say VS to ask may escalate an already stressful situation.

Sometimes, asking for a break can be more stressful because this can bring an escalation in contact.

I think it's best for you to grey rock for now Fenchurch. This means being boring and non reactive. Do not share any news or personal things, just listen to what they have to say and keep conversation focused on her but without involving yourself. Ie, if you hear complaints "oh that must be hard for you". End conversations as soon as anything negative happens. Make an excuse "sorry I have to go"

There is lots of info available on this method on Google.

Save your emotional energy for getting well.

You can also use grey rock to easily move to low contact, then no contact later if needed.

Which is why MercuryQueen it has been suggested that she tell her parents that while she's having treatment, she needs to step back and concentrate on her recovery and well being.

This will give her time and space to make a decision for the future. Estrangement maybe the answer in the long term, but so might low contact.

If she was convinced that estranging her parents was the right thing to do for her, there would have been no need to ask if she'd done all that she could to avoid it.

Suggestions have been asked for and have been given.

Smileless2012

Great post Hetty. Low contact may not be the answer but surely better to try. As you've demonstrated with your own life, there are alternatives to an 'all or nothing approach'.

We cannot change the behaviour of others, only our response to that behaviour.

"Far healthier to learn to manage difficult relationships by focusing on our personal growth. And using very low contact if needed". I agree Spring.

Right now, I disagree. The OP is undergoing chemotherapy. She shouldn’t be sparing a fraction of energy to dealing with people who have shown, time and again, their unwillingness to listen, respect boundaries. She needs everything she has to be put into her health rn.

Later, after recovery, there can be a reassessment. But reducing stress and negativity is absolutely necessary for those dealing with chemotherapy.

How true Smileless, we cannot change peoples behaviour, make them kind if they are not, make them care if they don’t, only when you understand that can you start healing.

Great post Hetty. Low contact may not be the answer but surely better to try. As you've demonstrated with your own life, there are alternatives to an 'all or nothing approach'.

We cannot change the behaviour of others, only our response to that behaviour.

"Far healthier to learn to manage difficult relationships by focusing on our personal growth. And using very low contact if needed". I agree Spring.

Hithere

Please go to therapy, it is very hard to manage this at the phase you are right now

Writing a letter will add full to the fire and will be used against you

Talking to them - it hasnt worked for decades, why would they listen to you now?

This.

have a think with therapist about whether low contact of the sort you have or no contacts best.

Truly, they won't change. They cant. Too much invested in them believing that how they are is "right" "normal". Think forward, your own children and making their lives different from yours.

So many of us have had to come to terms with the love not had, or the love with so many conditions, you are not alone.

Great post Hetty58!

Great posts Luckygirl3 - wise mature and sound advice that’s objective rather than self justifying. Cutting people off is cruel as there is no way for a relationship to ever begin to be repaired. Leaves the estrangers continually having to self justify. Far healthier to learn to manage difficult relationships by focusing on our personal growth. And using very low contact if needed.

Fenchurch - why the need for 'all or nothing'? My parents were messed up by bad childhoods - and the war. Therefore, my childhood was less than happy. I know all about emotional abuse and neglect.

Still, I never expected them to change. I adjusted accordingly, we kept in touch (just about) and I took no notice of all the barbed comments, I giggled at their perceived reality - I became immune.

I never left my kids with them, countered their negative remarks, limited contact and influence. We met in public, never at home - and I kept a healthy distance whenever possible.

I still did my duty to ensure they were looked after as the need arose (but not by me) - as they were not evil, just victims themselves.

MercuryQueen's suggestion of messaging your parents and telling them you need a break due to your health and ongoing treatment is a good one Fenchurch.

It might be all you need for now and will give you the time and space to consider any long term solution.

You’re going through chemo right now. You need to focus all your energy on that. Any energy spent on your parents is wasted at this point. Give yourself a break. You can even message them, “Due to my health, I need a break from our relationship so I can focus on my recovery.” Mute them on your phone. They’re draining your reserves right now, and you simply can’t afford that. You need people who can rally around, support you and your family, not take from you. You don’t have it to give, in terms of time and energy.

You absolutely need to put yourself first at this stage. No apology, no guilt.

It’s always best to focus on changing ourselves before we work on others. It’s not your job to fix your parents. They have to want to do the work themselves. Instead, focus on what you want out of that relationship. Decide if your life is better with or without a relationship at all. No choice is wrong. Just focus on your own healing and the steps it will take to get there. Your parents’ path belongs to them. Attempting to reverse-parent them into a more emotionally healthy state will only drain you. Protect your emotional and mental well-being by letting go of this emotional project you are undertaking. Estrangement may or may not be avoidable but isn’t the main goal in life general happiness? Switch the goal from avoiding estrangement to simply being happy. Make your peace and happiness the main objective, and take life from there. Let the chips fall where they may.

Vs

Totally

"You do not need to do the whole No Contact thing - just ration the time you spend with them, ignore their ways and get on with enjoying your life." Such sensible advice again Luckygirl.

It might not be enough for you Fenchurch, you might find that you do need to estrange but it's worth a try and if that is what you need to do, think about telling them why. Even if they do or should know, telling them that you can no longer cope with them in your life IMO is kinder than just walking away without a word.

Lol I think my moyhet just deleted any explanation from existence

It either didn't happen at all

Didn't happen the way I said

Or it happened but it was no big deal

Vs

Estrange and explain why... Parent does not know why

It is more they dont undersand the why or the why does not justify the consequences

The problem with estrangement sometimes is it's a damned if you do or damned if you don't.

Estrange without explaining why... Parent does not understand why

Estrange and explain why... Parent does not know why

Give up on fixing the relationship... You haven't tried hard enough

Try to fix the relationship... You have tried too hard

As an estranged child, there is just no right or wrong. Measure your relationship in terms of impact on your own mental health and do what you need to do to heal. If that is estrangement, that's the right choice

It really is that simple

My in-laws were certifiably barmy! Absolutely nuts - eccentric to the nth degree.

Refused to allow our children to play either indoors or out when we visited - because they wanted peace so they could sleep! - this is during the day! - why did we bother travelling to see them?!

They did not give presents or cards for birthdays or Christmas, except on one notable occasion when we happened to visit on a birthday, when my 8 year old was slightly amazed to receive a card in a paper bag and in its cellophane packet ("I am sure you would like to write your own message!") and a tome on the Queen Mother - great!

They had brains like planets and had met at Bletchley Park where they were cracking codes. But the brain power was not associated with any nouse whatsoever, and as for social skills ...... dream on! Conversations were peppered with Latin quotes and whole sections conducted in French or German - luckily OH and I were able to keep up - the children just got used to letting it all wash by.

We did not fall out with them or take it upon ourselves to sort them out - we just let it all drift by and only visited occasionally. There were who they were ........

As you can imagine they were not the greatest parents for my OH or his siblings - life was pretty hard for them. Repressed and ruled by the rod was the order of the day.

But we knew they could not be changed, so did not even think of trying to. I think this is what you must do Fenchurch. You do not need to do the whole "No Contact" thing - just ration the time you spend with them, ignore their ways and get on with enjoying your life.

For me is was my in laws who were dysfunctional but thought they were the perfect pious Catholics. When our children were little we had short Sunday visits after lunch and left before supper. As they wore me down with their disinterest in the grandchildren I tried to ignore it and thought the kids wouldn’t feel it. Ahh but they did. So as the kids got older they didn’t care to have a relationship with them. We did more with my family to fulfill the void. My MIL became an argumentative widow & I chose to take long breaks from her. When was explained to me that she was a passive controller, I finally found peace with myself. Perhaps just having a reason or why they are that way is enough, try to make this work for you.

Madgran77

Caramme

You may unintentionally be giving the wrong impression here, but to me you are coming across as judgemental, intolerant, unsympathetic, controlling and patronising. Perhaps it is not just your parents who need a change of attitude.

I dont agree! 🤔

Neither do I!

I think you have a lot of insight and are still vulnerable. Especially with treatment, if you can afford it, definitely some more counselling support.

people have made useful comments about how to separate yourself off

Hithere is right about Dr Ramani on U tube I'd go to U tube and put in Dr Ramani and "parents" to start with. She helped me understand my Ex,

There is a very understanding Estrangement thread on Gransnetters with some very experienced people who have had to tread your path.

Such a great post Luckygirl.