Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

@Yoginimeisje sorry I got muddled there. Thankyou for explaining. I see your point. I wondered if she would make an effort, just to get her certificates.

@Smileless you and Mr S are doing so well. Glad you're having fun and ding what you love.
Aww Mr S's 70th! Your son will surely remember his Dad, seeing as his son was born the same day, like you say- even if he doesn't do the maths.

The thing I feel sad for is that my youngest son is totally loyal to us, but totally abandoned by his brother who estranged. I feel sorry to think of him alone in the world after we're gone. I always thought of my kids supporting each other, so that's sad. I could understand a child estranging from their parents-but when they estrange from a sibling and their GrandParents too....that's just so sad.

Not to mention Aunts and Uncles who have loved the child and played with them, spent time and made an effort in their lives. I mean I could understand if my child estranged ME as I have had to make some difficult decisions regarding their MH , but I think they are totally nuts to cut themselves off from everyone. I resent that they did that to their sibling too.

Smiles When we first heard the news re Indonesia, I said to my DD They won't go, think the news came via her dad and I can't blame him not wanting to put them up till they sort themselves out; 2 adults & 2 children, which could take a year or more, wonder what's happened about their 2 dogs I know they are no longer living in the same place as a month ago, so maybe they are back living with his parents.

Onwards It is my son-in-law that takes drugs not my son. My son only drinks water has never touched alcohol, although I think he may have experimented a bit when he was in Uni with a few low-class drugs. It's my estD talking about emigrating to Indonesia and as we have been estranged for 11yrs she wouldn't come round to look for her certificates herself.

Morning everyone.

So it looks as if your D wont be going then Yogin. How odd. I seem to remember some time ago you thought they would be moving away and nothing came of it. I wonder why her dad wasn't keen, maybe he was worried about having to take financial responsibility for them all if things didn't work out.

I totally agree Onward. It was our DS who told his brother when their GM's had died and will no doubt do the same when our time comes; nothing we can do about that and neither of us would ask or expect him to do or not do something he wouldn't be comfortable with.

It's difficult to imagine what it must be like day to day, living with what you've done to your parents, your own children if they have lost the GP's they knew and loved, and so often extended family members Spring. Maybe they don't allow themselves too, but there must be times when we 'pop into their heads' just like they pop into ours, or appear in their dreams regardless of how it's wished it didn't happen.

Mr. S. has a milestone birthday next week, he'll be 70. ES may not know how old he'll be but he can't forget the day as his youngest son shares his GD's birthday.

Got home from our lodge yesterday so church choir practice for me this evening and bowls for Mr. S. this afternoon. We keep on carrying one don't we, and I'm trying to dispel this gloom that descended on me yesterday.

Soon Mr. will be 70; soon it will be Christmas and soon it will be 11 years since we were estranged.

Typing this has been a real challenge as the cursor that shows exactly where I am has disappeared!!!

When MiL died we didn't tell the estranged ones. The reasoning is that if they wanted to know how she was they could have stayed in touch. They didn't even write to her or send a card at Christmas, ever- and I know this because for her final three years her post was redirected to our house because she was unable to deal with it and DH had to.

If they even wrote one card we would have updated them. But at the end of the day when we're mourning our parents who we have cared for and respected, why at our lowest, would we invite the very people who hate us and want to hurt us? No. Things would have to change a lot or they won't be notified about who goes next, including me when it's my time.

I already decided. Who doesn't care about you when you're alive does not get to pretend they do when you're gone or get the opportunity to create havoc at a funeral.

So much sadness reading these posts, but am also in awe of the courage shown. Suffering does seem to bring about a resilience as we out of necessity build a life without those we have loved. I’m not at all sure how I feel about EC now. Anger and fear have been mentioned but perhaps worse is indifference. Like many I’m still incredulous that not only did they walk out of our life, but have maintained the estrangement. Like many here I question if they have any conscious notion of the enormity of what they are doing. Of the ongoing pain that the legacy of their actions is still causing and always will. I assume they believe they have valid reasons….but I can’t imagine what it’s like to live knowing you are deliberately choosing to hurt and inflict massive emotional pain onto another person. Maybe they feel it’s something they have to do and so must live with. In which case life can be no easier for them than for us. We all have to face up to what we do.
The first few family occasions without them were really really hard. This year there are several family weddings taking place and I suspect now no one except my husband and myself will even think about EC not being there. My own feelings apart, I feel so sad for everything they are missing out on.

Yoginimeisje thanks for telling me about your son. Yes mine too. He had a gf whose mother was an addict. I know cannabis but maybe other things, she was his gateway at age 14. We tried to control it but he was bunking off school to go there. That was also his first ever MH crisis where emergency services became involved, near her address. We didn't find out til the police brought him home and his story was different than theirs.

During the next decade- many trips to hospital, one section and many many drama's. Many things were self induced, sadly. Many drugs were taken, serious hard drugs until he bagan to pull away and believe the things he was told on the guided drug trips he was taken on by a Shaman who I would name and shame if I knew who they were. These people take vulnerable people's money and separate them from their families.

Allsorts does that mean she can't go to Indonesia? She should come and get them herself...

Smileless youre' fortunate you didn't bond deeply with your GC. It's a devastating loss when you have.

Good post QuoteSmileless2012 Tue 07-Nov-23 09:30:03

Put my estrangement down to drugs Onwards. My son.i.l smoked skunk from the age of 13yrs. did he's head in, he was paranoid. Believe he snorted cocaine too, he sold it anyway, I know that for sure as I know who he sold it to.

Allsorts {{{Hugs}}}

Smiles I can remember my estD voice & laugh well.
My son got a txt from her recently asking me if I still had her certificates as she needed them as she & the whole family were moving to Indonesia, where her dad lives [whom she always hated till my estrangement]. I texted her back and said I'd look, she thanked me. They would be buried in the back of our shed, so would only be able to get to them if my son helped me, he refused as he was still annoyed with her for cutting him out too. So, I didn't find them, she hasn't contacted me again and I know their idea was to stay with her dad, but he wasn't up for it.

Welcome Tracy, you'll be glad you've joined this page as it's so helpful and supportive.

Keep thinking about my beloved GD, first thing and last at night. Strange as not studying my calendar or anything but she keeps popping into my head.

Hello Onwards I don't worry about if anyone sees my post on here, I post the truth, so. Might be best not to reply, it sounds like he is reaching out to you but still wants to dig the knife in at the same time. So might do him good to be sitting waiting for a reply from you.

Well done on making all that chutney Whiff you are clever!

Lovely to hear how happy you are in your lodge Smiles and about your successful move. I've been working hard on my garden, put 5 more plants in yesterday, just as well I did with the weather today that is predicted to last the whole week or more. I bought a mature 'Star Jasmine' and a mature 'Hydrangea' surprised myself by managing to dig the big hole needed for them both myself, think all the wet weather helped as the earth was soft.

can't remember how it felt to be hugged by her anymore It's those simple pleasures you miss isn't it Allsorts. Sharing a hug, hearing the word 'mum' on a regular basis and even the sound of their voice.

I can't remember what ES sounds like when he speaks and when he laughs and when there are no other children or they live on the other side of the world, and when there are no other GC that makes it so much harder.

We never did bond with our eldest GC as he was just 8 months old when we last saw him and hadn't seen very much of him anyway. We never saw his brother so at least we've been spared the awful pain of losing a GC that you know and love.

Thankyou Allsorts, you have come to the same place as me. Thanks for your understnding.

We deserve to be happy, with people who arent out to destroy us.

Onward,,You will never get a,relatiinship with your son if he is into drugs, the things he says to you, like toeing the line is ridiculous and is the drugs talking, you mustn't let them get to you. He must decide to change as you can't make him..
For years I tried with my daughter to make sense of awful behaviour, I questioned everything I said and did, would apologise for imaginary hurts,eventually I had to face facts, she wanted me out of her life and it was me that had to change and accept how she felt about me as a mother she thinks is valid so I let her go. I hate what she's done but I love her, want her to happy, we are very different people now, she moved up in the world and left me behind. I think about the happy times and then I get sad I've lost it. My friends see a lot of their daughters and are close and I often think why me. However I do accept it can't alter anything it's too late, as I drove along today I thought of her and can't remember how it felt to be hugged by her any more.,You deserve to be happy.

Smileless losing GC is the worst. We always accept our kids might move away for uni or jobs or even travel, get partners who live abroad or a long way away- that's acceptable and understandable... but I think it's harder in a way to lose a bond with a grandchild for the simple reason that their parent is punishing their GP.

They punish their child, too. My Mother tried to do it. But kids grow up and make up their own minds. The bond is there and it will always be there, even at a distance. xx

Yes I don't think I even have emotions anymore. I was initially shocked and devastated at the carnage he caused our family and then I withdrew and stopped discussing it and kept busy so I don't spend too much time thinking about it. Ironically, Im heathier than I ever was and less stressed.

Sometimes I dream of my beautiful child and forget about the drugs that changed him. If he could appreciate the good times or even remember some, that would be good- but as long as he paints me an evil monster as was "revealed" to him on a shamanic guided drug trip then there isn't really anything for me to work on. I will wait and hope and not put emotions into it that I don't have the energy for.

The energy I used to put into keeping him on the level and placating him, I now use and earn money doing so in a job I love. That's why I no longer have the energy.

Being subjected to emotional abuse for years is terrible. No wonder you're tired Onward, you must be emotionally and mentally exhausted.

Ours was so different. For 27 years we had such a wonderful relationship and then within 8 months of our first GC's birth, it was all over.

Yes its terrible Smileless.

I think, for me, its just tiredness! For years he ground me down, criticising all the time, nothing I did was ever enough and he just wanted to pick endless arguments. I got to a point where I'm tired of sticking up for myself and telling the truth. I got to a point where I'm emotionally drained and exhausted. Its time for me to live a healthy life.

I miss him. I just dont miss the endless dramas , lies and accusations. If only he could see the best intentions and love instead of what he does see, things could be different- but unless he realises, I am only human.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's what he wanted Onward, why else send such a strange letter, pretending it was anonymous?

Drug do so much damage, not just to those who take them but also those who love and care for them. I don't know if any EAC ever face up to what they've done. Maybe understanding how much they've hurt those who truly love them is why so many never do.

We have to protect ourselves now, something we never envisaged having to do from our own children. As you say, we all share the same pain, a pain so immense that it takes a great deal of courage to risk having to go through it all again.

For me, it isn't anger that wants our ES to stay away, it's fear. That's awful isn't it.

Smileless yes a good idea NOT to acknowledge the letter. I think he maybe wanted me to argue with him or defend myself, maybe so he could show it to a solicitor and frame me for being bad.

So sorry for your pain and for everyone elses. We are in the same boat, lots of different stories that add up to the same pain we all share.

I think theres a lot of strange thoughts floating around these days. I was on instagram and an advert popped up where a young man aged about 25 popped up advertising Magic Mushroom tea and coffee. He claimed to have been wonderfully creative after taking it- but then... he said, he found he didn't need people so much, especially "negative ones". I thought of my son. I lost him after he started taking drugs. It changed his personality, took him away. I can see this happening to many more people too.

Its very sad that products like these exist and that young people feel good about dumping people from their lives. Im sure they feel sorry when no one wishes them Happy Birthday or cares for them unconditionally? But will they ever be able to admit that and understand how much they hurt their "forever people"?

having read latest post Onward my advice if you want to send something is to send a Christmas card in which you wish him a 'Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year' but don't wish him the best.

That way, you're acknowledging receipt of his letter without acknowledging any of its content. You're giving him nothing to come back at you for and hopefully , he'll be left wondering if you received the letter and if you did, if you realised it was from him.

Personally, I hate these bloody mind games that some of our EAC play, and have from the very beginning refused to play them with our ES.

The last time I heard from him was more than 3 years ago, just 2 days after my mum died. He sent an email to express his condolences and I was furious. How dare he after more than 7 years intrude on my grief and, some may have believed that this was the first step on a road to some kind of reconciliation, being given false hope and left waiting to see if they'd be contacted again.

We all remember how in the beginning every time the 'phone rang, every time we knew we'd been sent a text or email, our hearts leaped in that briefest of moments when we wondered if, and hoped and prayed that it was them.

Because he lived just up the road before we moved, it was the same in the evening or during the weekend when I heard the garden gate being opened.

I waited until the following day to respond. No 'dear .........' just his name and no 'love mum' just mum at the end. We didn't hear from him again until about 18 months later when my m.i.l. died. Mr. S. received a similar email and sent a similar response.

Fast approaching 11 years for us now and Yogin will reach that most depressing of anniversary's a few weeks before we do . DS so far away in Aus. so no idea if we'll ever see him in person again and no GC because the only two we have are his.

I need to hear from our ES like a hole in the head, in fact a hole in the head would be preferable.

When I first joined GN for the sole purpose of talking to the handful of posters who were openly sharing the estrangement experience, Mr. S. was concerned that I would be identified by ES's wife or one of their friends.

It's never bothered me because everything I've ever written about what they've said and done is true. Everything I've ever written about his and his brother's childhood and how we were and continue to be as parents is also true.

There's no longer any shame here and no guilt either. There was at the beginning of course, but the more this issue is openly discussed and the more amazing similarities we see between our experiences and those of others, the more we are able to recognise that this isn't because of what we did or didn't do.

This is down to them, and whether or not they've been coerced by their husband, wife or partner it remains their choice, their decision which is perhaps the most heartbreaking thing of all.

for you all xx

Did finish my tale but the gremlins ran off with it .

OnwardandUpward there are people on here who have it a lot worse than me . And have been estranged far longer than me and they are still here helping others.

Smiles and Yogin it's been 11 years hope I remembered that right. I know Allsorts it's been longer. Without them and all the others I wouldn't be as I am. There kindness , support, understanding and cherished friendship has been worth its weight in gold.

As you can see I ramble on. But that's me. You will get want you need here . But most of all protect yourself I know how horrible it is to have to protect yourself against your own child. But we are parents not punching bags. We give our children unconditional love, support and understanding. Why they turn on us is because they want to and no exactly what will hurt us the most.

That is not love . We are not toys that can be played with and thrown away .

What has always given me comfort after my husband died is our children and grandson's care part of his DNA . I am an atheist. But his dad would be ashamed of him. But one day my grandsons will be old enough to point out all the things their parents did wrong and just wait until they get partners then the fur will fly.

Through I hadn't better put the rude version of that . As I wouldn't want Mr S to be shocked Smiles 😁.

We are here for anyone who needs us Smiles made this a safe place for us. 💐

So sorry Whiff, truly grieved on your behalf. Its all so unfair.

OnwardandUpward my son sent me a text 4 days after my birthday saying he had sent and email to me and his sister and not to contact him but give him some time . He ended it by saying I love you mom but don't like you. So I just sent but via email it's your choice. I his email there where lies and assumption about courses if action I took. He doesn't know what I did to try to help him and my daughter in law. He called me vindictive and manipulative 2 things I have never been.

I could have written a worse email back but didn't. This was May 2020. I moved here to live closer to both my children. My husband died in 2004 but had both parents and mother in law to look after. Mom was the last to die in 2017.

I moved here in August 2017 both my children had wanted me closer for years as it was a move of over 100 miles . For 7 months my son and 2 grandson's came every week for usually 4 hours and had lunch with me. My son used to say as soon as they realised were they where they got excited. He had told me in the February they where expecting another son in July. Last time I saw his 2 eldest was March 2020 then Covid hit. But still had phone calls video and pics .

He gave me a lovely time on my birthday even talked about putting paving in my garden to make it safer for me. Then the email. I have an idea he already had the emails written to be sent.

My daughter and him had not been close for years due to his letting me down also my daughter and daughter in law never got on. My daughter in law was jealous of my daughter.

Anyway it was my son's and 2nd son's birthday the same day in August . I knew the new baby was due in July. So as it had been months I sent cards for their birthdays . In my son's card I put a friendly letter a long with a cheque and how it was to be spilt up as I had some money for my eldest grandson as I always give to siblings when a new baby arrives. In the letter I told him the results of my heart tests. When he sent the email he knew there was a problem with my heart and waiting for a bubble echocardiogram. Well they found a hole but it's treatable. I put in 3 presents for my new grandson. The day after their birthdays the whole parcel arrived all unopened the babies presents crushed with a hand written note. No dear mom or his name at the bottom . He said he didn't want my vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere near him or his family ever again . Zero connect.

My daughter and grandson where here the day it arrived. I have her the babies things to give to a baby charity.

What hurts me the most is my kind loving son has showed himself to cruel and cowardly. He has not only cut me and my daughter out of his life but my brother and family. My brother was very hurt and wanted to go and sort him out and in his words that bitch of his wife.

I have 3 grandson's who are now 7,5 and 3. I don't know the youngest ones name or date of birth. But I have given him a name as it hurts to much to think of him without one.

I put all the photos containing my son and daughter in law in a cupboard only have photos of my 2 grandson's I know out. I can't watch any of the videos as I can hear my son. They sent me a lovely video of Easter egg hunt in their garden Easter 2020 it showed my pregnant daughter in law. I love that video as the boys had so much fun but can't watch it.

My oldest grandson's birthday is October so I didn't send him anything and haven't sent any birthday ,Christmas or anything for Easter ever since. As I know I would have abuse back.

My daughter in law trolled me on GN a different thread she wrote as a nan.

Hi Smileless, the letter was typed out to try and be anon. He referred to me as my first name but I knew it was him because he put his own postcode (and my address!)

Yes, he thinks I am misandrous, a man hater. Yet he "generously" wishes me the best. I don't trust it. It seemed like an excuse to be insulting! Or maybe he really does think the things he said. He also said that in all the time he lived with me that I had never toed the line (!) How rude. I am suspicious enough to think it maybe an excuse to open up a dialogue (arguments) and I don't have the emotional energy. That's why I didn't reply . I do wish him the best. I've probably left it too late so maybe I'll just send a Christmas card

If your estranged son is generously wishing you the best Onward why would he imply you're a misandrous person?
A misandry person is someone who hates men.

Hating what our estranged children have done does not equate to our hatred of them, and I worry that if you do decide to respond you risk opening yourself up to attack, drama and arguments.

You say the letter was anonymous, does that mean that he didn't sign it/say who it was from? Did he refer to you as mum in the letter?

If you do decide to respond my advice would be to simply say that you wish him the best too, and nothing more .