Gifts to GC when estranged

maddyone

Yes, good to see agreement.
Estrangement is incredibly painful for the estranged. A memory box may be helpful to the estranged GP, or indeed parent if a parent is estranged for some reason, and eventually might help the grandchild to know something of their grandparents and family history, because if the children never knew anything about their grandparents, they may well be curious later on. I often think they must ask why they don’t have grandparents, when they reach a certain age of understanding too. I really don’t know what their parents say to those enquiries.

As someone who has raised children to adulthood and beyond while having long gone no contact with my in-laws , we told them the truth. My boys remembered the miserable in-laws but my daughters were either too young or born after we cut them off. When they’d occasionally ask why they only had one set of grandparents, or why their father didn’t have parents etc. we told them the truth, in an age appropriate way. “Your father does have parents, they’re just not very nice people” satisfied them for a long time on the VERY rare occasion they asked. When they reached more like puberty they got more - they’d weren’t respectful of our family, and didn’t treat your mother or your brothers kindly” though I suspect my sons filled in more of the details they recalled. By the time they reached adulthood I think one of them has asked once - in a decade of adult hood about them only to say “do we even know if they’re still alive “. So what do people say to those questions? I imagine some version of that. Kids may be curious but dont generally
Go on longing for grandparents they never knew, though perhaps it was helpful that mine had my own dear parents who were incredible grandparents and active in their lives

I seriously do wonder though what these estranged grandparents have done that is so abusive that complete estrangement is considered the answer. Serious abuse would certainly be a good reason, but my experience of abused children, as a parent, grandparent, and teacher, is that the most abuse comes from parents and/or their partners, particularly when the partner is not the child’s natural parent.
My current observation is that my grandchildren are being supported by their mother and us. I’m seriously concerned about my daughter’s safety when we leave to return to England next week. My ex SiL assaulted my husband a few days ago, not seriously but enough to leave bad bruises and cause bleeding. We reported it to the police and it’s been noted.

Yes, good to see agreement.
Estrangement is incredibly painful for the estranged. A memory box may be helpful to the estranged GP, or indeed parent if a parent is estranged for some reason, and eventually might help the grandchild to know something of their grandparents and family history, because if the children never knew anything about their grandparents, they may well be curious later on. I often think they must ask why they don’t have grandparents, when they reach a certain age of understanding too. I really don’t know what their parents say to those enquiries.

It's good to see some agreement here.

VioletSky

A good counsellor can help you process your feelings from estrangement and ensure those feelings don't impact decisions that affect others

I went to a wonderful Christian counselling service and it was means tested and it really helped me to separate my feelings from my decisions and be objective

Indeed a good counsellor would be incredibly helpful here. Multiple failed attempts at trying to negotiate another adult's boundaries is a very good indicator of the need. It's good to have an objective party help you see beyond your own wants and needs.

I agree too, with the emphasis on the counsellor being good, for anyone that feels they have the need for one.

A good counsellor can help you process your feelings from estrangement and ensure those feelings don't impact decisions that affect others

I agree VS. A good counsellor can and I am sure help many who are estranged in different contexts.

Two key aspects to this I believe are common sense and knowing what the desired outcome of what we're going to do is, especially the latter.

With regard to the latter, what is it that those of us leaving our GC a memory box want to achieve? To let our GC know that we loved them and thought about them, especially on their birthdays and at Christmas.

For our GC to have something positive, not to remember us by because how can they remember us when they never knew us, but to know about us because who knows what they may have been told.

Common sense tells us that bemoaning our lot, saying how much we missed them and how miserable our lives were without them, would only have the potential to hurt them, as would any criticism of their parents.

A combination of the two ensures that nothing the box contains would cause any distress or harm to them or their parents, our EAC.

I managed to work that out without being a qualified professional or seeking advice from one .

A good counsellor can help you process your feelings from estrangement and ensure those feelings don't impact decisions that affect others

I went to a wonderful Christian counselling service and it was means tested and it really helped me to separate my feelings from my decisions and be objective

Oh no * eddie* I wasn't talking about memory boxes!
Are there "experts" on that? Certainly there may be different ideas and that can be helpful but in the end it has to be whatever each individual deems is right for them and for their GC or whoever they are leaving the box for. And on that they may be right or they may be wrong, and there is little that can be done about that except complete inaction!! Which is definitely not the answer for all whether GP, GC, AC or anyone else. There really is not just one answer, maybe principles to follow but even those depend on circumstances!

I meant relevant areas related to children, child psychology, dealing with childhood experiences as a child and as an adult and such like. Within the context of wider issues than that but also relevant to this discussion I think.

I am now wondering how anyone would track down a professional qualified in the contents of memory boxes. Perhaps they should also be consulted whenever we buy our children a present in case we get that wrong too

Bridie22

Last post, I am a qualified professional.

Yup so are a few others on here including me, in relevant areas.

Last post, I am a qualified professional.

If my mother had got therapy I probably wouldn't have needed too

Many face this issue

Goodness VioletSky - you appear to consult qualified professionals or counsellors about absolutely everything! It's amazing the human race has thrived for so long without them. Try relying on yourself sometimes.

Ok Smileless

Thank you VS but I don't need the advice from a qualified professional to tell me what is and is not appropriate for our GC's memory box, and am very confident that if advice was sought, the contents would meet with their approval.

No it is not

There is a lot of help available to ensure that people do not pass on unhealthy behaviours because being capable of recognising some does not mean all

Counselling

Reading material

Parenting courses

It's always best to do the work to ensure we are healthy and healed

Of course AC need to be free from abuse in order to be good parents and break that cycle of abuse, which isn't easy to do, and those that manage to do so are to be admired.

Being a victim of abuse is no excuse for anyone who themselves abuses others.

But I would suggest, if you don't want to listen to those of us here who are pointing out potential harm, to take the box to a qualified professional who can help you ensure it is appropriate

Many people cannot see the problems with their own behaviour...

That is my point entirely

Because everything I have said has been to help people avoid harming their own family members and the response has been... Interesting

I say again no one has tried to dismiss you VS. If I am wrong, then please quote the post or posts where this has happened.

I have given numerous reasoned and logical arguments to explain why I disagree with you. Please don't attempt to dismiss me by suggesting that my contributions to this discussion need to be more mature. It wont work.

Grams2five.As well as protecting children, parents do also need to be free from abuse to be good parents themselves I agree

Abuse is too easily a cycle that passes down through generations until someone cuts it off and says no more

Yes Granniesunite estrangement can be from love but it can also be from spite and vindictiveness.

Thankfully some of us can see there's a difference regardless of our own personal experiences. It's a pity that some can't.

Smileless2012

You did VS when you posted about their being no magic that can make an abusive parent a non abusive GP, and when you posted about your children making their own decisions about their GM.

No one has brought your situation here in an attempt to dismiss you. Statements like that simple make it difficult to engage with you

I can see that you fail to see anything positive in what EGP's are proposing to do, but we do see it as positive which is why we'll be doing it.

I did not bring my situation to the discussion, I did not mention my situation at all until people started using it as an attempt to dismiss me

But as I explained my situation is not relevant here anyway

Do you think this discussion could mature a little and you could give me some actual reasoned and logical arguments against what I am saying rather than trying to be personal?

You are of course free to do as you wish, whether you are considering the potential harm or not. If people's justifications for behaviour were always correct we would have nothing to discuss