Gifts to GC when estranged

@smiles thank you for your reply . As you’ve pointed out my motivation for leaving a memory box is genuine. Like you , we want our GC to know that we love them and think about them . The reason for exploring different options like solicitors etc and when to hand it over is purely to stop the parents from interfering and stopping the box being opened. I think once you get to a certain stage of estrangement, things must get quite bitter and of course the trust is gone . Even at this stage before it’s happened , I’m finding it difficult to trust my AS . His character has changed so much and sadly he’s no longer trustworthy. I like to think I have capacity for forgiveness but I must protect myself in the future if we remain in touch . I can be a bit soft and I don’t want to be hurt like this again.
It is surreal thinking about this in advance of it happening because my AS left today ( in a foul mood ) saying see you next Sunday. I don’t think I want to stay in touch if these visits dwindle much further though , because I was used to seeing him a few times a week and in order to branch out myself I feel I need to set my own boundaries. If his reasons for less visits are genuine then that’s ok . If he just can’t be bothered then that’s not ok and I might be tempted to tell him I’m considering showing him the door .
Of course my life is so different from when my partner was alive . We had a wonderful relationship and partnership and it wouldn’t have bothered me telling my AS to stay away for a while . I think that would do him good - he knows I’m vulnerable these days which makes his treatment of me particularly cruel.
As you pointed out to @Allsorts if there’s a chance a GC might seek out an estranged GP then I want this to be me please !
@Otter99 I believe everyone has the right to know about their family, so part of the reason for leaving a memory box would be to give them information too xxx.

@DiamondLily you’re right I need to break away a bit from my son and his wife . Because of my severe anxiety I do find it difficult to go out with people I don’t know very well. When I move ( 🤞) it’s a bit more isolated so I fear this new place might be my new prison .
I know my late partner’s ashes are none of my son’s business but you quite rightly say he’s pulling my strings . He knows how guilty I’ll be feeling, but he won’t care .
I’m slowly taking a step back , but finding this difficult. I know I’ve relied on him , but that’s what we used to do x.

@DiamondLily
Thank you for your reply . I know I’m getting ahead of myself but I feel pessimistic and I’m trying to manage my expectations. This will obviously take a lot of adjustment because it was quite recently that my son said no relationship with my GS as opposed to using it as a permanent threat . Honestly this , on top of the grief has nearly tipped me over the edge - someone with less compassion than I have might be handling it differently. I don’t get angry, I just feel despair. Of course parents hold all the cards and don’t they know it . I could accept the situation if I’d been abusive or nasty but being over protective because of my high anxiety is hardly a crime . This combined with immense grief over the last year has nearly killed me . I do regularly have suicidal thoughts but I’ve not acted .
I’m in the middle of a housing association flat swap at the moment which is adding more stress into this equation.
I realise things can change so this is always in my mind . I won’t make further plans for a memory box until it’s absolutely necessary. I keep asking my AS if there’s anything I can do to change the situation and no there isn’t anything at the moment, apparently it’s just time

I never implied her motives weren't genuine, just that the recipients interests should come first. Ie, at an appropriate age and not with caveats such as must be opened in front of the solicitor is all. I get that navigating all of this from all sides is very difficult

No one should be judging anyone absolutely DL because unless you have walked a mile in someone else's shoes, you're not in a position to judge.

What may feel right for some, wont feel right for others, so we can only do what we believe to be best in our individual circumstances.

Of course it's important to Ladysu Otter, why wouldn't it be? I think it's unfair to imply that her motives for leaving a memory box aren't genuine.

It goes without saying that EGP's leaving their EGC a memory box are doing so because it's something we want. We want them to know we loved them.

Yes, I realise that Ladysu but at 16 they will still be in the majority of cases, under the care and influence of their parents, which is why I suggested an age when they are older and able to make their own decisions.

It must feel both surreal and heartbreaking to even be thinking about this when your GC hasn't even been born yet .

It isn't uncommon for GC to seek out their GP's Allsorts. Personally, we know of one GM who this has happened too. Her GD made contact with her several years ago when the GD was in her 20's and they've been seeing one another ever since.

The last we heard her mum had no idea she was seeing her. It's a shame when an AC feels they cannot be open and honest with their parent(s) isn't it.

Life, not lie.🙄

Ladysuisei

@madgran thanks for your reply . Yes obviously writing something inflammatory on a card could cause so much suffering it’s not something I would do .

The only reason for suggesting a box at a younger age is so that I’m still alive when they receive it . That would give an opportunity for possible contact . Surely there’s so much regret with this sort of thing , an opportunity for a meeting or something might be nice . I don’t know ?

Yeah whilst running through my ideas on this and thoughts about a solicitor involvement, I probably meant that give the young person the opportunity to open it with someone who isn’t a parent . I know that I’d be excited getting some family heritage handed to me in a box from a solicitor. I was quite an adventurous and inquiring child , young person though .

I’m finding this so hard - I’m trying to remain detached because I just keep crying about this. I have always been so close to my so and his wife , I’d never have believed this happening . This morning my son said “ no relationship “ then later went on to say “ possibly after some time ? “ “ maybe st a point in the future “ . It’s so confusing. He was particularly nasty today , about my late partner’s ashes which I’ve “ neglected “ by keeping them in storage until I feel ready to deal with them . Hopefully I’ll be joining him soon because I frankly feel so depressed by my life . When you invest everything into your family and they turn on you , it’s such a horrible shock . Xxx

As I’ve said, I would ignore any remarks about your late partner’s ashes. That has nothing to do with anyone but you.

Quite honestly, I’d build my own lie, and stop investing so much in your son and what he might want.

He’s pulling your strings with vague promises, and I wouldn’t let him.

Stand back a bit.💐

@madgran thanks for your reply . Yes obviously writing something inflammatory on a card could cause so much suffering it’s not something I would do .

The only reason for suggesting a box at a younger age is so that I’m still alive when they receive it . That would give an opportunity for possible contact . Surely there’s so much regret with this sort of thing , an opportunity for a meeting or something might be nice . I don’t know ?

Yeah whilst running through my ideas on this and thoughts about a solicitor involvement, I probably meant that give the young person the opportunity to open it with someone who isn’t a parent . I know that I’d be excited getting some family heritage handed to me in a box from a solicitor. I was quite an adventurous and inquiring child , young person though .

I’m finding this so hard - I’m trying to remain detached because I just keep crying about this. I have always been so close to my so and his wife , I’d never have believed this happening . This morning my son said “ no relationship “ then later went on to say “ possibly after some time ? “ “ maybe st a point in the future “ . It’s so confusing. He was particularly nasty today , about my late partner’s ashes which I’ve “ neglected “ by keeping them in storage until I feel ready to deal with them . Hopefully I’ll be joining him soon because I frankly feel so depressed by my life . When you invest everything into your family and they turn on you , it’s such a horrible shock . Xxx

Ladysuisei

@Smiless the reason why I said 16 was because as you’re allowed to marry then legally could my GS go without his parents. I’d like to be alive when this happens too , that’s important to me . Hopefully I would be alive at 75 . My thinking would be that the box would be opened in the presence of the solicitor because at the moment the nastiness shown towards me by my AS knows no bounds . He’d almost certainly try to ban the contents being read .
I would put some items of family history in as well as the cards and , no I wouldn’t send the child on a guilt trip . It feels surreal to be discussing this because when you realise you’re about to become a Nan , unless you’ve committed some heinous acts , you naturally assume you’ll be in their life don’t you xxx

I would wait until the child is born. Life can change, and any family friction could resolve itself.

If not, then, yes, do a memory box, but I don’t think you can insist on when are where it’s given.

The problem here is that as you've said LadySu. It's something that is important to you. Wanting it to be opened when you want on your terms. I feel if it was genuinely for the GC then it wouldn't be about your wants and needs but about theirs and when best for them to have the opportunity and decision to open it. Not when and what you want.

I don’t think a solicitor would get involved in this. The usual way would be that the GC would be given the box, when you die, and would open it or not.

You could, perhaps, specify that the child is over 18, if you die before that age.

It has to be their choice.

It’s difficult.

@Smiless the reason why I said 16 was because as you’re allowed to marry then legally could my GS go without his parents. I’d like to be alive when this happens too , that’s important to me . Hopefully I would be alive at 75 . My thinking would be that the box would be opened in the presence of the solicitor because at the moment the nastiness shown towards me by my AS knows no bounds . He’d almost certainly try to ban the contents being read .
I would put some items of family history in as well as the cards and , no I wouldn’t send the child on a guilt trip . It feels surreal to be discussing this because when you realise you’re about to become a Nan , unless you’ve committed some heinous acts , you naturally assume you’ll be in their life don’t you xxx

Ensure what you are doing is best for the grandchild

If it is not, that is all they will take from it

The best revenge is always happiness, not more destruction towards a blameless family member

As I’ve said - we all do what we feel best in our own circumstances.

No one should be judging anyone - disability issues taught me that unless you’ve walked a mile in someone shoes, it’s pointless trying to advise on their footwear (metaphorically).

Do what you feel best. 🙂

When a parent makes the decision to estrange the grandparents he or she is denying their children a relationship with them, some do it because of abuse and no one would argue with, some who do it have mental health issues, some out of if spite or jealousy , just because the parent have the final word, like the control, doesn’t mean it’s best for a child. I know from experience grandchildren usually seek out grandparents and make up their own mind. I didn’t do a memory box but I sent cards, because one day the parent won’t intercept the post.
Do hope this doesn’t spiral outof control as it did before. I would advise not responding.

"I'm not looking for something that isn't there" let's be clear, I do think others do do that for some reason

I have no problem owning what I mean

If I say "I like oranges" that doesn't imply someone else doesn't

Just as if I say "I wouldn't judge someone in xyz context" that doesn't imply someone else would

It took me a little while to understand what the issue was because I just understand that people are different and individual and sharing their own valid comments so I'm not looking for something that isn't there

Diamondlily replied to me, I replied back with my own thoughts

It's not deep

Madgran77

I cant see anything that DL has said that suggests she was judging anyone to be honest but I know that perceptions can differ.

Similarly I cant see anything that she has said that suggests she wasnt cautious when deciding to allow a relationship to develop with her mother but again, I know perceptions can differ

DL I'm glad that you were able to, as you call it, "call a truce" in your circumstances with your mother and that your children have golden memories 🙂

So am I…my kids have wonderful memories of my mum and dad - they still miss them terribly.

I wouldn’t change a thing. 🙂

I think most people can look at their situation, and make a judgement from that. People are also aware of risk factors.

I wouldn’t presume to tell others what they should do, simply because I believe we all have to make our own choices.

Some are perfectly valid on estranging from certain relatives. Others can often find a way forward.

But, that has to be a personal choice.

I did the right thing for my family - others will do their best to be right for their family.

Any opinions from me, or anyone else, are fairly irrelevant.

We can only give general views, based on our own experiences. 🙂

Regarding memory boxes, well, my kids didn’t want theirs from their paternal GM (their choices). I didn’t get involved, as I had cut off contact with her 30+ years prior to her death.

On the other hand, I’ve got a long running saga going on with my GGD, and although social services are recommending regular contact with me, DD etc. and virtually none with her birth mother, I have started a memory box in case it goes wrong - but none of this is anything to do with abuse.

Just a nutty birth mother🙄

I cant see anything that DL has said that suggests she was judging anyone to be honest but I know that perceptions can differ.

Similarly I cant see anything that she has said that suggests she wasnt cautious when deciding to allow a relationship to develop with her mother but again, I know perceptions can differ

DL I'm glad that you were able to, as you call it, "call a truce" in your circumstances with your mother and that your children have golden memories 🙂

My point is that an abusive person does not magically become not abusive when a grandchild turns up

That is true regardless of whether they abuse their grandchild

Some do and that is always one too many

So I would not take the view "I did xyz" and it turned out fine" instead I would advise caution, always so that people are aware of the risks

Just as I advise caution and being aware of the risks when passing on memory boxes. Only here these are acts not yet committed, so no harm has been done as things stand and no judgement given

VS. I wasn’t aware I was judging you? Not sure how..🤔

I don’t know you, personally, or your situation - I was just stating mine, which only I know.

You give your examples, I gave mine.

Surely, on forums such as this, ALL replies are based, in part, on thoughts from our own experiences?

Everyone has different experiences, and also from having worked for years with abused children, I do also understand that no two abuse situations are the same.

All I know is that my mother and I called a truce, and my kids and grandchildren have only golden memories of my mother.

I have never enlightened them as to my childhood, and never will.

Life worked for us, and that’s all it needed to be. 🙂

DiamondLily

VS Those parents become grandparents... And no magic occurs to make someone not abusive when a grandchild is born.

Abuse from parents is more apparent because the child lives with their parents, grandparents have less contact with children in general but that doesn't make them any more safe to be around”

But, as I’ve said many times, my mother was what would be seen (nowadays) as emotionally abusive to me.

Yet, as I’ve also said many times, she turned out to be a wonderful granny and great granny.

None better.👍

Even more astonishingly, none of us needed counselling, forum validation, pods, books or social media to maintain happy and healthy relationships…🙄

I put the past of my childhood firmly behind me, when I reached 18, and she was supportive of my parenting. That’s all it needed, the past didn’t need to be picked apart and festered upon.

Obviously, in the cases of sexual or physical abuse, the situation would be totally different - but that wasn’t in my past.

It's a deep shame that you view some types of abuse as somehow worse than others or more dangerous

I wouldn't leave a child with anyone abusive.

I have experienced sexual, physical and emotional abuse so I know which caused the most damage long term for me. My mother was aware of all three.

In my situation, my children not only witnessed emotional abuse towards me but one of them received it herself and would never have told me that had I not estranged because she thought it was her own fault.

So your situation and mine differ vastly and if I can accept that and allow you to make your own choices and decisions without judgement perhaps you can do the same.

Every situation deserves each of us not to place our own over it.

I am glad your children had a good grandmother. I took the same gamble and lost.

Gramiesunite the feeling of utter helplessness must be unbearable. When an adult is in a controlling and abusive relationship with their partner, how their children not be affected, despite the loving parent doing all they can to keep those children safe and protected within that family dynamic.

I sometimes wonder if the "counselling, form validation, pods, books or social media" you referred too DL can do more harm than good.