The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

Smileless2012

I have no interest in convincing you or anyone else of anything SingcoTime, that isn't how this thread works.

It's not about creating arguments with one another, it's about offering advice, care and support for those who come here seeking it, predominantly from those who have personal experience of estrangement, and for Ladysu from those who have themselves been estranged.

Exactly Smilessles

I'm giving the advice to Ladysu that I feel will best protect her heart and her peace of mind. I'm not posting anything to fuel her resentment of her DIL or convince her that her son and DIL hate her. It's the reason that unless I'm responding to someone directly calling out my comments, I post primarily to her. I see potential for this family to come back together, and so my advice doesn't include inflammatory assumptions about how her son and DIL want to hurt her or intentionally cause drama. Others are free to post how they wish.

I have no interest in convincing you or anyone else of anything SingcoTime, that isn't how this thread works.

It's not about creating arguments with one another, it's about offering advice, care and support for those who come here seeking it, predominantly from those who have personal experience of estrangement, and for Ladysu from those who have themselves been estranged.

Smileless2012

If they are going to use the threat of never seeing her GS again or go through with the ones already made, they should never have taken the baby to see her SingcoTime.

It's a terrible thing to know you have GC you've never seen, and even worse if you had just the briefest of contact where you held them in your arms just one time.

Creating problems over being asked to store 400 records for a short period of time and once again blocking Ladysu from making contact, is not conducive to making their relationship with her work and is certainly not a good example to set their son if he is a witness to this behaviour as he grows up.

Ladysu's son and d.i.l. have had ample time to decide whether or not they want her to be a part of their family. The blocking and unblocking of 'phones and the constant threat of never seeing her GS have been a major factor in their game plan.

They need to make a decision and stick with it and stop putting her through this cruel emotional turmoil.

As I said, you can't speak for them and their intentions. I'm not going to do mental gymnastics here to see villains where they aren't. If you want to convince me that a freshly postpartum woman and a son who was previously close to his mother sat around after the birth of their first child plotting to let her see the child with the intent to then pull the plug on the relationship, I have a bridge in London to sell you. Somehow I don't see tired, new parents having the time, interest or energy to engage in a conspiracy theory to terrorize his mother with threats of NC. This isn't a cheesy soap opera. It's just an unfortunate example of a dysfunctional, overly emotional family who all struggle to control their emotions when faced with stressors.

The blocking of the phones are a necessary step when one person cannot control themselves. You don't have to like it, but unless anyone here is paying their phone bills, they can communicate with whom they like whenever they like...or not. Ladysui seems to need hard barriers to ensure she doesn't over communicate when they aren't available. No one is owed an immediate answer to a call or text message. Focusing on what these adults do and don't do with their own property is misguided and unhelpful. All is does is help her fuel resentment.

They already have decided their boundaries. By Ladysu's posts, she does the majority of the outreach. Technically, she's putting herself through turmoil by not respecting their boundaries. Asking him to go move records when he should be home with his nuclear family, specifically when she knew they'd be less inclined to do so was provocative. It could have come off as her "testing the waters". Her son isn't the end all be all of help. She doesn't actually need him to do any of what she asks, yet she persists during the worst time. She is the one doing the most of the calling and asking.

She also has a right to step away from people who speak to her with disrespect. Everyone is entitled to boundaries. No one is entitled to tell another adult what their boundaries should be. No one gets to decide for others which boundaries are and aren't valid. The sooner everyone accepts these simple facts of life, the better off they'll all be.

If they are going to use the threat of never seeing her GS again or go through with the ones already made, they should never have taken the baby to see her SingcoTime.

It's a terrible thing to know you have GC you've never seen, and even worse if you had just the briefest of contact where you held them in your arms just one time.

Creating problems over being asked to store 400 records for a short period of time and once again blocking Ladysu from making contact, is not conducive to making their relationship with her work and is certainly not a good example to set their son if he is a witness to this behaviour as he grows up.

Ladysu's son and d.i.l. have had ample time to decide whether or not they want her to be a part of their family. The blocking and unblocking of 'phones and the constant threat of never seeing her GS have been a major factor in their game plan.

They need to make a decision and stick with it and stop putting her through this cruel emotional turmoil.

Smileless2012

Your consultant was spot on DL. For too long and I don't remember for how long exactly, I was overwhelmed by sadness and would literally crawl out of bed at lunch time.

I was barely functioning and to this day have no idea how
Mr. S. managed to go to work. It was only when my grief and sadness gave way to anger, at the way we'd been treated and how undeserved it was and is, that I began to feel human again found a sense of purpose and self worth.

It really does feel as if over the last 11 plus years we've moved mountains to get to where we are today.

And me, over 20+ years, for very different reasons. 👍. I went down the old “woe is me” road when first diagnosed and in a wheelchair.

But, I didn’t want to live like that. Nor did I want counselling 🙄 or tranx/anti D’s. So, I whacked myself up back into anger and positivity. It’s not easy, and every day was a struggle. Some days are still a physical struggle. But, it can be done..

A nurse said to me to look for ONE thing a day to bring you joy (flower, song, poem, anything, for a week.

The next week, try and find two etc.,

Train the brain sort of thing.

Even since DH died, my anger at some people, especially his ghastly adult sons, has pushed me forward.

Works for me. 🍾😉

Smileless2012

Morning everyone.

I agree DL that it's a lot of fuss over being asked to store some records even 400, and why didn't your son say he couldn't or didn't want to store them at their house Ladysu? His wife seeming to speak for him isn't a good sign IMO.

We have a lot of vinyls, not as many as your dear partner Ladysu and were going to get rid before we moved here. It was my s.i.l. who said we may well regret it so we kept them all, and our house warming present to each other was a new record/cd player.

She was right, and we're glad we brought them with us. We did go through them last year when we were having a good sort and clear out and took the ones we didn't want to keep to a shop that sells them.

We've probably got enough vinyls, CD's and DVD's to open our own shop!!!

TBF Allsorts you only need to make one call to know that you've been blocked, it doesn't mean that Ladysu's been constantly calling her son.

I don't agree SingcoTime that it was kind of them to visit with the baby if their default position is going to be blocking Ladysu's calls and the constant threat of not being allowed to be a part of her GS's life.

If this is how they intend to use their child, it would have been better to stay away altogether.

Good to hear that your brother's recovery is going well Whiff. Your reference to bigger poo bags made me , thankfully we only need small ones for our little dogs.

It's over cast here this morning and I'm debating as to whether or not to put some bedding out on the line.

Our dogs are both brighter and happier this morning so yesterday's injections have clearly done the trick and they've had their first tablets this morning.

I hope last night wasn't too difficult for you Still .

Smileless, you and some others would have criticsed them and called them cruel no matter what they did. People soften their hearts sometimes after babies get here. You don't have to agree it was kind. Ladysuisei appreciated meeting her grandson. It doesn't matter one bit how you, me, or anyone else feels about them bringing the baby over. They clearly wanted to make this work with Ladysu. They tried. She pushed. They reacted badly. Im not going to vilify a freshly postpartum woman who wasn't exactly treated well herself, nor will I vilify a sleep deprived new dad for their olive branch. This is a 'death by a thousand paper cuts' situation.

Ladysu has some impulse control issues here, and I wish they'd be more gentle with her about it. I really do. She's still his mother, so even if they must distance there is just a way to do it that shouldn't involve berating, yelling, and hurtful statements. Seems that almost no one in the situation has control over their emotions enough to not burden one another. From lady's father who started a confrontation before, to Ladysu, to the wife, and the son. Ultimately, they all need to ensure they are setting a better example for this baby and if being together is triggering, for the baby's sake, they all need space from each other until there is enough growth all around.

Your consultant was spot on DL. For too long and I don't remember for how long exactly, I was overwhelmed by sadness and would literally crawl out of bed at lunch time.

I was barely functioning and to this day have no idea how
Mr. S. managed to go to work. It was only when my grief and sadness gave way to anger, at the way we'd been treated and how undeserved it was and is, that I began to feel human again found a sense of purpose and self worth.

It really does feel as if over the last 11 plus years we've moved mountains to get to where we are today.

It can indeed. Anger (correctly used) and determination can really help with pushing forward. It’s a case of knowing your own self worth, and insisting that people treat you with respect.

Why on earth would it be seen to be ok to manipulate and use people, then cast them aside?

Set boundaries and stick to them. We cannot change the behaviour of others, but we can control how we react.

When I was trying to get fitter after after a couple of strokes, a consultant once said to me: Anger and determination can move mountains, self pity and wallowing can’t move so much as a blade of grass.

Very true. 🙂

I'm not surprised you're angry Ladysu, I feel angry on your behalf!!!

Never seeing your GC is bad enough, but having done so and held them in your arms even once, makes the threat of and heaven forbid the reality of never seeing them again a million times harder.

Anger can be a positive emotion. It can propel us forward and give us the determination to make the most of the life we do have so harness that feeling and the energy it gives you; that's what I did and it worked for the both of us

Alice Jolly from 'Dead Babies Ans Seaside Towns' "All who live should rage. People who are angry get up in the morning, people who are sad sometimes do not".

@Smiles , DL and Whiff thank you for being supportive. I do feel some comments are pretty critical of me ! I certainly don’t think that by asking my son to store some records is beyond expectation- I’ve not gone into the backstory here but cut a long story short , these are actually going to eventually be left to my son as per the wishes of my late partner . There’s more to it than this but I’m not going to keep defending myself. Yes , it’s very true that it’s taken one call from me and one from my dad on my son’s birthday to confirm I’ve been blocked . Yes it’s very cruel to bring the baby to see me , leading me to believe everything is ok then to pull the rug from underneath me . They must have already planned and discussed this because I am not aware of anything which happened in the interim to cause yet more drama . To be perfectly honest I’m sick of the whole situation. For my son to accept a sum of atound £100k from my family to further his education and allow him to buy his gigantic house then to turn on this family is really beyond me . Perhaps some of you think this is perfectly acceptable behaviour too ? Take what you can when it’s on offer , then just throw away the family once you’ve picked the bones . Angry ? Yes I am angry. My son and DIL are behaving outrageously and I for one have had enough. I’m no longer going to be treading on eggshells, whether they like it or not . They aren’t the only ones who have boundaries. My boundary is to treat people with respect and kindness- they have not respected my boundaries, which in comparison to making a few requests for help , pale into insignificance.

Oh I know what you mean DL the problem is I have so many things that mean too much to get rid of, which is why I don't .

Oh, I’m tidy enough (and I did have a major reshuffle through the winter), but some things just mean too much to get rid of.

My DH was a hoarder - I threw gadget things that had been obsolete for about 20 years.🙄

I think I am too, more so than Mr. S. but a very tidy and organised one .

I’ve still got my Dads vinyls - mainly the really early Elvis Presley ones. So, many are in demand. I can’t sell them though - they were so much a part of his and my life. I don’t play them though.🙂

DH and I collected a huge amount of CDs - many we made ourselves on the old desk top computer. I wouldn’t throw them either lol 🙄

Perhaps I’m just a hoarder.😉

Morning everyone.

I agree DL that it's a lot of fuss over being asked to store some records even 400, and why didn't your son say he couldn't or didn't want to store them at their house Ladysu? His wife seeming to speak for him isn't a good sign IMO.

We have a lot of vinyls, not as many as your dear partner Ladysu and were going to get rid before we moved here. It was my s.i.l. who said we may well regret it so we kept them all, and our house warming present to each other was a new record/cd player.

She was right, and we're glad we brought them with us. We did go through them last year when we were having a good sort and clear out and took the ones we didn't want to keep to a shop that sells them.

We've probably got enough vinyls, CD's and DVD's to open our own shop!!!

TBF Allsorts you only need to make one call to know that you've been blocked, it doesn't mean that Ladysu's been constantly calling her son.

I don't agree SingcoTime that it was kind of them to visit with the baby if their default position is going to be blocking Ladysu's calls and the constant threat of not being allowed to be a part of her GS's life.

If this is how they intend to use their child, it would have been better to stay away altogether.

Good to hear that your brother's recovery is going well Whiff. Your reference to bigger poo bags made me , thankfully we only need small ones for our little dogs.

It's over cast here this morning and I'm debating as to whether or not to put some bedding out on the line.

Our dogs are both brighter and happier this morning so yesterday's injections have clearly done the trick and they've had their first tablets this morning.

I hope last night wasn't too difficult for you Still .

Good morning everyone. Raining here, as usual lately.

The beginning of April is a hassle - all the costs go up from the 1st, but pensions etc are paid in arrears, so increased income doesn’t happen until nearer to the middle of May.🙄

And I’m not even going there with being dragged even further into income tax because the threshold hasn’t moved. 😡

Still, can’t change the system.

I’m having a quiet day today, hopefully. People have been turning up here all week, especially with the GCs on a break from Uni, and it’s got a bit much lol

Anyway hope you all have a nice day.

Still - I hope you had a nice evening anyway. It must be incredibly difficult for you that your DH sees your son and family, but you can’t. Not a good situation. 💐

Whiff - glad your brother is ok,👍

Still I am sorry your son estranged you both 7 years ago but started to see his father without you. That is so cruel . Bet your husband is doing it in the hope your son will see you eventually.

Blaming you both for his mental health is a cope out of his own behaviour. Why is it it's always the parents fault. About time our children take the blame for their own actions instead of making us scape goats. Does your husband tell you about your son and grandchildren or do you ask him not to? I will never understand why estranged children favour one parent over the other. I know how much my son has hurt my brother as in his words what the xxxx did I do to him. He was their for both our children when their dad died and my son talked to him a lot. My daughter talked to me but think my son needed a man's support. But he was only 16 when his dad died and our daughter 20.

I hope you say in touch Still and without this thread I would have been lost . But here I still am will be 4 years the end of the month since I last saw and talked to my son . And 4 days after he sent a text and the email.

This year I will be a pensioner yah. Had my letter to claim my pension in January was easy to do online with the code they sent. Yesterday had my letter telling me when my first payment will be a lump sum in May then the amount I will receive every 4 weeks from June . State pension is paid in arrears. At least will still get PIP which will go up soon in line with inflation.

Soon be time for my first holiday since 2005. Really looking forward to it . My brother is recovering well after his operation and walking more each day and still doing his exercises. Can't remember if I said this his friend goes out with him and his wife takes their dog for a walk . Did ask if he had a harness on and did he get a treat once home. Said no to harness but did get a treat but needs a bigger poo bag 🤣. Very glad they live in a bungalow. Already had his physio appointment for May had it come through once he got home from his operation. At least he was only in hospital from Monday until Wednesday. Times flown by since he had it the 18th of last month.

Well better shut up . Take care all.

Ladysuisei

@Smiles well yes I did think this myself about my son being agreeable with the situation but I know he’s disagreeing with his wife over bringing the baby over in the first place. I personally can’t see why he can’t find the time to pop over and collect the vinyl- actually my brother in law will get them out on Saturday and I’ll store them at dad’s . I’m gradually going to stop asking anything of him , makes me wonder what sort of “ relationship “ we will have then . I’m sure he will regret his actions in time but it will be too late I fear .
@Still your situation sounds absolutely dreadful and I don’t know how you deal with it . I’m very sorry .

It sounds like a huge amount of drama over moving a few boxes of records, but if he doesn’t want to help, then so be it.

If it comes to it, many areas do “man and van” things who could bring your records over when you are in a permanent home.

He should really have just told you himself, and I don’t really understand why his wife appears to speak for him. However loving and close a couple are, they can usually just talk for themselves with other family members.🙄

But, I would just plough on, sorting out your life, and let them get on with it for now.💐

Ladysui, I’m afraid you are being demanding and not listening to your Dil, the two of them couldn't have made it clearer, you would not know you are blocked if you didn’t keep calling , you won’t listen to them so what alternative have they got, unless they move.
Don’t ask your son to move things and store, get a company to do it or leave them at your fathers. Even if you think it’s your dil at fault, it’s your sons choice, she’s his wife, , he’s a grown man with a family, let him enjoy this time with his son. If you persist you will lose them. You must take responsibility for your decisions, not anyone else.
I’m sorry to be blunt but I would hate you or anyone to end up without family and estranged when they could have avoided it.

Ladysusiei sorry things have turned out like this . But I think you knew deep down it wasn't going to be a permanent relationship as things have been deteriorating for months. Like others have said don't contact your son . If he wants you he will contact you . At least if you don't hear from him you know for definite it's over. And you won't see him or his family again. You can then move forward as hard as it is on your own. Bet your dad wasn't happy as he seems to want to protect you.

I am lucky even though my son did it cruelly and cowardly via email and letter. That I didn't have to walk on egg shells as others have . But I have been on my own a long time before our estrangement and it's only when I moved to live closer to both families that it ended. Funny enough both my daughter and son wanted me living closer to them for years. At least I saw my son and his 2 eldest sons every week for 7 months before Covid. I was never invited to their home once I moved here. But last year had to draw a line under it all and let any hope of seeing my son ever again. I did it for me not them. My tolerance for bullshit went years ago. I suppose having the in laws I did showed me how vile people can be to their own family. As my family where the complete opposite to my husband's. Only member of his family he liked as well as loved was a great aunt who we went to tea every month. She was the mom he should have had .

I moved on my own even did my own packing even though had the limb jerks and instead of things in boxes ended across the room 🤦. I found decluttering my house decluttered my mind. And was ruthless in getting rid of things as I was down sizing. Only thing my son did was empty my loft and went through his dad's things from his mom's house that where in the garage and that was mainly books most of which went into the recycling . All his and mine vinyl records went to charity shops as I got rid of both record players.

400 vinyl records is a lot to keep plus the weight of them . Ladysusiei unless you are going to play them all or only a few then consider getting in touch with a record shop and see if any are worth anything. I know it's a big ask but you can't hold on to everything and it's only been a year since your partner died I know and you are holding on to them because they where his but would he want you to?

It took me 8 months after my husband died to get rid of his clothes and only because my daughter helped me. The only thing of his I brought with me to my home were his ashes and tools . The furniture is what we brought together but it's still good quality and will see me out. All my furniture is arranged differently to in my old house. But sold most of my jewellery and few other things to cash cow which paid for the double bed ,2 new mattresses and a bedside table. Only brought a few other bits of furniture I needed. This is home and here I live my life to the full.
What my son has done hasn't spoiled me being happy and since moving here I am. I wasn't in my old house as it stopped being home when my husband died.

Ladysusiei please live for the now no what ifs . If being widowed at 45 has taught me anything it's you can only rely on yourself and it's hard and it's a struggle but I have found I can do things I never thought I could. Having 3 older relatives to look after I lost me . But moving I found me again . Hopefully your move you will find you again and find you are stronger than you think . But don't look at the house as yours and your partners as hard as it is you have to make it your home and have it they way you want it . Hopefully the landlord wouldn't decide he wants to sell in 6-12 months and you end up homeless which is why you moved out on the first place. Hope you have negotiated a long term rental that is iron clad.

Most of my friends who rent are with a housing association so have security. Only thing I know about renting is when we rented holiday homes. As we have only owned our own properties.

Both my children and partners rented for years while saving for their own homes. And very proud of the fact they did it themselves with no help from me they even paid for their own weddings.

Being an widow and estranged is a double whammy but you can still live a full life. But my love and grief for my husband far out weights what my son has done. Even after 20 years grief can overwhelm me but I don't fight it as I did in the early days as I was foolish thinking I had to be brave for everyone else.

I set myself some things I wanted to do moving and am doing then since the first week here. My sit fit class and my craft group. Who are true friends who I can rely on and they can on me. We help eachother we are an odd bunch and in another life we would never have met but so glad we did.

Have you thought about things you want to do once settled after your move ? I decided before I got here what I wanted to do but I have always been a planner and have to do what I plan no matter how much pain or how bad my mobility is I thought I was weird but turns out others with HPX are the same . That's a big thing about my move better healthcare and finding out the 2 things I was born with a getting the treatment I needed.

Ladysusiei it's hard making a new present and future as others here know but you can do it you just have to set yourself goals and realise you have to do it on your own .

The thread below suggests that 100 vinyl records weighs around 50 lbs / 23 kg. If that's the case then 400 records would weigh 200 lbs / 91 kg. LadySui says they're in two boxes, so that would be 100lbs per box--and the boxes would have to be sturdy, possibly wooden, which would make each box even heavier. That's why I suggested that asking someone to move the records would be more than a small "ask" and might be something better for the movers to sort out.

www.discogs.com/group/thread/447049

Still--scratch what I suggested. Two pounds of chocolates AND lots of flowers. And a nice piece of jewelry . . . every year when this event comes up. Something to look forward to . . .

Ladysui, it is a big transition to suddenly go from having a husband or partner to being on one's own, and you have my sincere sympathy for the loss of your beloved partner.

Though it's comforting to be able to rely on other people in your life--friends and relatives--to help with emergencies, journeys out, and complications with moving, eventually it can feel very reassuring to try to learn how competent you really are by hiring movers (as you plan to), hiring taxis, and becoming more confident that you can, in fact, do a great deal to help yourself. Having to do that is a shock when you've been able to rely on a partner, but it's something that many of us face as we grow older and as our children live far away, are busy with their children and jobs, or have serious medical problems of their own.

Ladysuisei,

Your son and daughter in law are in solidarity. She chose to express to you, albeit ineloquently, that you are persisting in behaviour that is troubling them. I think the best course of action is to step back and give them space. It was kind of them to bring the baby to meet you, despite all the drama that has taken place. She is freshly postpartum and you asked your son to step away from his new little family to yet again address your needs. She snapped. You seem to downplay and dismiss much of whatever it is you deem "not serious" enough. I think if you all cannot agree to respect each other's boundaries--yes boundaries--then leave them to get on with things. You wouldn't know you were blocked if you weren't trying to contact them against their will. Plan ahead, look to your support system, and focus on yourself. Your son doesn't need to be an integral part of your plans, and I think you are struggling to grasp this. You don't need his help, you want it. What they need right now is for you to not offload your struggles onto him at this time. Since you cannot agree to this, it's best everyone gives each other some space.

Try not to ruminate on your speculations about your son's relationship with his wife. That is not your arena. The more you speculate about her, their relationship, their life together, the more upset you will make yourself. By placing her at the center of your troubles with your son, you are giving yourself the classic false hope that one day he'll leave her and your relationship will be the same as before. The truth is that he is and will continue to choose his wife and their life together over you in such a situation. Try to find peace by looking inward.

Still--that sounds just miserable, but yes, you have reason to be proud of yourself. That said, I'd go out and buy two pounds of chocolate and scarf the lot while they're gone. Or buy myself a LOT of flowers.

Ladysui, I'm wondering what you mean when you say you would like your son's "support". Would that mean spending time listening to your troubles, doing errands for you, fixing things, moving your things to the place you decide to live, or . . . what?

It sounds as if you have moved at least once in the past year, to a place you understandably don't want to live, and then perhaps later needed help moving some things to your father's house. If you asked your son for help with those moves it may be that being asked to move and store 400 vinyl records just tipped the balance with your son and his wife. (It does seem like a pretty big "ask" rather than something he could accomplish by "popping over"--the weight of the records alone would be a strain.) Is there a reason they can't be stored with your furniture?

It seems like the advice you've been given here--take charge of the move on your own, don't ask him for help--is good. It's disappointing when our kids decide they have enough on their plates and can't help us, but sometimes they truly do have enough on their plates and don't have time or energy to spare--and having a newborn may be one of those times.

If you know they are blocking your phone presumably that's because they feel pestered. It's possible to have a good relationship with your son even though he can't help you with things, and you're right--it's wise to stop asking him for things.

It's good that you're looking forward to settling into your new home Ladysu. It isn't easy as everyone on here knows but so important to have something else to focus on .