The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

@Smiles well yes I did think this myself about my son being agreeable with the situation but I know he’s disagreeing with his wife over bringing the baby over in the first place. I personally can’t see why he can’t find the time to pop over and collect the vinyl- actually my brother in law will get them out on Saturday and I’ll store them at dad’s . I’m gradually going to stop asking anything of him , makes me wonder what sort of “ relationship “ we will have then . I’m sure he will regret his actions in time but it will be too late I fear .
@Still your situation sounds absolutely dreadful and I don’t know how you deal with it . I’m very sorry .

Smileless2012

So sorry that this is happening again Ladysu. It was wrong of them to bring your GS round and then block you again, it would have been better if this visit hadn't happened.

They've had plenty of time to decide whether or not they want you to be a part of their lives, so these mind games need to stop.

I agree with Allsorts, you really need to focus on where too and when you'll be moving, then settling into your new home and focusing on this new chapter in your life.

You say you feel like you're being used as a doormat but what can you do, well you need to decide if you want to continue to be treated this way. If there was something about the visit that concerned them then they should have discussed it with you once they'd left. Blocking your messages and calls is grossly immature and cruel.

You have no control over how they're behaving now and may behave in the future, so I think you need to think about what you want your life to be. Of course you want them in your life but do you want this regardless of the cost to yourself.

Only you can decide .

Is this how

@Smiles Hi ….yes in some respects it would have been better to wait until they visited until they were both sure I was “ allowed “ in . I’m actually very annoyed with my DIL , up until now I’d given her the benefit of the doubt and was reluctant to simply blame her for preventing contact. Now I hear this from the horses mouth I realise she’s beind the whole thing . Funny though , I’m actually friends with her mum who has helped me quite a bit with lifts etc . Last week she took me with my cat to the vet at short notice- but obviously she won’t see any wrong in her daughter so I’m very careful what I talk about. Her mum doesn’t know about the plan to disallow contact which is why I’m optimistic it won’t be permanent. I’m fed up with all the drama and tantrums though . Every time she doesn’t get all her own way , my DIL is possibly going to threaten no contact. I’ll just develop a thicker skin I think and I’ll not contact them . One day my son will notice I’ve stopped and he might think what’s going on ?
Re being treated like a doormat , I think that I can’t control what they say or do , but I can change how I respond. I’ll do this . I’m already decided on where I really want to live , the house , but it’s just taking a bit longer than I hoped . All the renovations are done now , so it’s just a case of waiting for the admin and contracts to be sorted then hopefully I’ll get a moving date . In the meantime, I’ll sign the tenancy for the exchange flat so I’ve secured somewhere better . Also I won’t be letting the guy down who really wants my flat . I just want something in a better area - I don’t feel very safe currently. Well I’m still with my dad but the flat I currently have isn’t in the best area really. I probably shouldn’t have taken it in the first place. The flat itself is cosy tbh and I spent a lot on carpets , blinds and curtains. Never mind it’s only money 🤣🤣

Oh yes I also believe blocking the phone is incredibly childish and immature but I’m not bothering to call them any more . They can do what they like . It’s a shame that my DIL seems consumed with jealousy at her husband’s relationship with his mother . I note that she’s not wanting to estrange her own mum ….ive not done anything to warrant being kicked into the gutter but , as we know , plenty of good parents and GPs are dispensed with for no reason whatsoever. At least I can choose how I respond to this behaviour, which is better than how I felt a few months ago .

Still

I am hesitating as I write this post because it's the same old never ending story of estrangement.
It's my son's 42nd birthday today - he estranged us both 7 years ago citing that we had been at the root of his mental health issues. 3 years ago he started to message my husband and meet up. Tonight, my husband, son and his partner, two grandchildren are going out for pizza. I am quite proud of the fact that I have not said to my husband don't go and it's surprising that most of the time I cope but today is difficult. Estrangement has drawn a fracture across our whole family and I perhaps I just need to write this here as I know there are people who listen and understand my anguish and how I miss my funny, quirky son who I love so much.

That sounds very difficult. I’d find something nice to do for you this evening.💐

Ladysuisei

@DL yes I know we are both suffering a terrible loss . I will never recover and like you , it’s brought me to my knees .
I’ve needed help because I’m not naturally resilient. I’m learning to be if course because I have to , but it’s a real shame that my son and his wife lack empathy and compassion. I cannot understand my son because he used to possess these qualities. He’s changed .

No , I don’t understand why my son won’t sit down with his wife and I and have an adult discussion about what’s going on here . Personally I think they are immature and they are struggling as parents . Maybe I am a bit stronger than I think I am .
We always used to be able to talk , but these 20/30 somethings are so unused to having their own opinions on anything these days . They get their opinions off social media and they all use the same phrases . Things like “ boundaries “ have to be set for absolutely everything, a set of rules . Their feelings need “ validation “ at all times or their mental health suffers . That’s ridiculous. I find that even disagreeing with an opinion leads to a huge drama - that’s too upsetting for them to deal with . It’s exhausting! So this is why they won’t talk - it’s too difficult!

I think social media is a huge part of the problem.

There is so much information, misinformation, quack advice, psychobabble, etc that new parents often end up in a spin.

Sometimes, life is just a case of getting on with it. There are times when it’s difficult, but we all need to just get on with it.🙄

I know how hard this is, we all do Ladysu but you can start a new chapter in your life, and you will.

I don't know what to say Still. So your husband is going out tonight with the son who continues his estrangement with you, his partner and yours and your husband's GC.

I have no idea how you cope with this .

I hope you'll just leave them to get on with it Ladysu. It looks
to me as rather than asking your son to store a couple of boxes of vinyls until you move being a crime, this is simply another excuse.

Your son's storing up trouble for himself if he's going to allow his wife to dictate who can and cannot see their child; where will it end? She can only cause estrangement if your son's complicit.

Just got back from the vets as both dogs are poorly. Two antibiotic injections, two lots of antibiotic tablets and a bill for £117.00. Not bothered about that but was very upset when the vet said he'd detected a heart murmur in our little poodle.

Have another appointment for next week to see if the heart murmur is because he's unwell at the moment; fingers crossed all will be well when he's seen again.

I am hesitating as I write this post because it's the same old never ending story of estrangement.
It's my son's 42nd birthday today - he estranged us both 7 years ago citing that we had been at the root of his mental health issues. 3 years ago he started to message my husband and meet up. Tonight, my husband, son and his partner, two grandchildren are going out for pizza. I am quite proud of the fact that I have not said to my husband don't go and it's surprising that most of the time I cope but today is difficult. Estrangement has drawn a fracture across our whole family and I perhaps I just need to write this here as I know there are people who listen and understand my anguish and how I miss my funny, quirky son who I love so much.

Smileless2012

So sorry that this is happening again Ladysu. It was wrong of them to bring your GS round and then block you again, it would have been better if this visit hadn't happened.

They've had plenty of time to decide whether or not they want you to be a part of their lives, so these mind games need to stop.

I agree with Allsorts, you really need to focus on where too and when you'll be moving, then settling into your new home and focusing on this new chapter in your life.

You say you feel like you're being used as a doormat but what can you do, well you need to decide if you want to continue to be treated this way. If there was something about the visit that concerned them then they should have discussed it with you once they'd left. Blocking your messages and calls is grossly immature and cruel.

You have no control over how they're behaving now and may behave in the future, so I think you need to think about what you want your life to be. Of course you want them in your life but do you want this regardless of the cost to yourself.

Only you can decide .

Is this how

Hi @Smiles yes it’s tiresome isn’t it . After thinking things were in the way up , they start with the mind games again . I’m finding it exhausting. Yes I agree that there was plenty of time to decide whether to visit or not with the baby - now I’ve met him it will be heartbreaking not having a relationship. I don’t really think it will come to this , after all , nothing tangible has happened. They really can’t justify not allowing contact particularly as my DIL overplayed her hand on the phone . Saying no contact because I asked for a favour is nothing short of ridiculous. They are both immature in blocking me on their phones - I’m not bothering trying to contact them now . My son will have regrets because he is creating a family rift and she already said he did not want this . I do know now that she is behind all this awfulness, not that it really makes much difference mind . It was always in the back of my mind that my DIL was behind everything I was just giving her the benefit of the doubt . I don’t hate her , or even dislike her . I feel pity for her because she’s clearly not happy if she needs to manipulate her husband in this way and “ not allow” him to have a normal loving relationship with his mum . I will concentrate on moving , well I’ll let the removal men do it !!) then all being well , my plan to be in the house around the end of this month will happen and I will start a new chapter. My son is in his own .

No , actually I contained myself really well during the visit . I was very calm tbh . Nothing actually happened that indicated any further problems looking up
Well done!

And reading your update to Otter ...well you really cant do anything can you and I'm so sorry. There seems little way to understand this and if they wont discuss then there is nothing you can do except decide what is the best way forward for you! 🤔

@DL yes I know we are both suffering a terrible loss . I will never recover and like you , it’s brought me to my knees .
I’ve needed help because I’m not naturally resilient. I’m learning to be if course because I have to , but it’s a real shame that my son and his wife lack empathy and compassion. I cannot understand my son because he used to possess these qualities. He’s changed .

No , I don’t understand why my son won’t sit down with his wife and I and have an adult discussion about what’s going on here . Personally I think they are immature and they are struggling as parents . Maybe I am a bit stronger than I think I am .
We always used to be able to talk , but these 20/30 somethings are so unused to having their own opinions on anything these days . They get their opinions off social media and they all use the same phrases . Things like “ boundaries “ have to be set for absolutely everything, a set of rules . Their feelings need “ validation “ at all times or their mental health suffers . That’s ridiculous. I find that even disagreeing with an opinion leads to a huge drama - that’s too upsetting for them to deal with . It’s exhausting! So this is why they won’t talk - it’s too difficult!

@Otter99 - yes you could say it’s gone downhill!!
I asked my son for a favour . I’m moving and putting my stuff into storage. I don’t want to store my late partner’s vinyl collection. There’s around 400 in my flat and I wanted my son to take the 2 boxes of these to his house to store for me . He’s got a 6 bedroom house .
My DIL went ballistic with me . She said I’m incredibly demanding and my behaviour is unreasonable. It’s been unreasonable since she was pregnant- although my son’s not done anything for me since November! Then she went on to say that it was her idea for me to be banned from seeing “ her “ son because of this unreasonable behaviour. She then continued that she’d reluctantly agreed because my son was worried about a family rift if I was banned . There would be a division- my family are loyal to me without me asking . Then she said if my behaviour didn’t improve, then she would enforce this and I’d not be allowed in my grandson!s life . I find all this really disturbing and I’m wondering if she’s losing the plot . The threats are totally unacceptable and I don’t deserve them. She is setting out to cause estrangement and that takes a really special type of person in my opinion

Ladysuisei

DiamondLily

Ladysuiei - I’m sorry it all appears to have gone downhill again, it’s hard to understand why.

Any new grandparent would be excited to welcome their new (especially first) grandchild.

Assuming you weren’t screaming around, causing uproar, it’s hard to see what your DIL’s latest drama is all about.🤷‍♀️

I would be wary about getting into a situation where you are constantly anxious and “tap dancing on eggshells” frightened to say anything.

From this site, it’s apparent that some DILs/SILs, do try their best to estrange their spouses from their birth families. Sometimes, it might be justified, other times it’s some sort of jealousy.

But, the baby is not just her son - he’s also the son of your son. Does your son not have a view on all this?

I would concentrate on your life and your move.

Perhaps, at some point, you could sit down with both adults and ask that they tell you what the problem is.

But, for now, I’d leave it be and sort out your housing.💐

@DL yes it’s gone downhill for sure ! I find it exhausting walking on eggshells all the time . I have to be so careful and life didn’t used to be like this , my relationship with my son and wife pre-pregnancy was great . The death of my partner marked the initial deterioration because I have needed support. I do feel disappointed that my son has been so unwilling to support me , even though some people don’t agree with this point of view. When they came to visit I certainly didn’t tsp dance , or cause uproar!! I was really calm and I felt quite proud of myself in fact . I was so excited though . I do realise that some SIL and DIL deliberately try to force estrangement but I never would have thought of this happening in my own family. I really thought I had a good relationship with my son’s wife - I welcomed her in every way when she came into my life . I was happy my son found someone he was happy with and that was good enough for me . I don’t understand why she wants to cause a division between me and my boy - I really miss having a close relationship with him ( and her too ) .
I realise the adult way would be to talk this through but they won’t 🤷‍♀️ I’m happy to listen to their opinions but my son says this is “ too difficult “ so I’m doubtful it will happen. I have to just muddle along with a poor relationship by the seems of things . I just accept sometimes these things just happen. Yes I will concentrate on moving and once I’ve hopefully got back to the house ( my first choice ) I will start a new chapter of my life and begin the process of healing from the loss of my beloved .

I do realise how bloody awful it is to lose a DH/DP - my husband died nearly a year ago, and it’s bought me to my knees at times.

I’ve been lucky- I’ve got supportive kids, but I’ve been careful about asking too much, so I’ve ploughed on with most of it.

I’m not sure why your son can’t hold an honest conversation with you and your DIL sounds like a drama Queen, but you’ve got what you’ve got.

So, I would concentrate on trying to improve your stuff for you.

It’s not easy. 💐

@DL thank you I’ve just read your second comment. Yes that’s about the size of it . I’m going to sign the exchange agreement in the 15th put furniture into storage then hopefully the house will be ready a couple of weeks later . The EA have given me a timescale of the 3rd week of April for contracts/ paperwork which even allowing for delays should mean getting in by month end . The flat swap is my plan B - also I didn’t want to let my swap guy down because he really wants my current place ( area) . The flat swap is a good plan B - I could be happy there I’m sure but the house is my preference. I’m in the right area with this and I plan bringing my partner home - well his ashes anyway. Not for everyone I realise , but for my own peace I’m wanting to do this if I can .
You are right - a lot of young people are totally selfish these days and I don’t understand it myself

Hello lady sorry to hear its all gone a but wrong again after a seemingly good visit. May I ask what exactly your DIL said when she gave you a "telling off" ? What favour did you ask of your son?

DiamondLily

Ladysuiei - I’m sorry it all appears to have gone downhill again, it’s hard to understand why.

Any new grandparent would be excited to welcome their new (especially first) grandchild.

Assuming you weren’t screaming around, causing uproar, it’s hard to see what your DIL’s latest drama is all about.🤷‍♀️

I would be wary about getting into a situation where you are constantly anxious and “tap dancing on eggshells” frightened to say anything.

From this site, it’s apparent that some DILs/SILs, do try their best to estrange their spouses from their birth families. Sometimes, it might be justified, other times it’s some sort of jealousy.

But, the baby is not just her son - he’s also the son of your son. Does your son not have a view on all this?

I would concentrate on your life and your move.

Perhaps, at some point, you could sit down with both adults and ask that they tell you what the problem is.

But, for now, I’d leave it be and sort out your housing.💐

@DL yes it’s gone downhill for sure ! I find it exhausting walking on eggshells all the time . I have to be so careful and life didn’t used to be like this , my relationship with my son and wife pre-pregnancy was great . The death of my partner marked the initial deterioration because I have needed support. I do feel disappointed that my son has been so unwilling to support me , even though some people don’t agree with this point of view. When they came to visit I certainly didn’t tsp dance , or cause uproar!! I was really calm and I felt quite proud of myself in fact . I was so excited though . I do realise that some SIL and DIL deliberately try to force estrangement but I never would have thought of this happening in my own family. I really thought I had a good relationship with my son’s wife - I welcomed her in every way when she came into my life . I was happy my son found someone he was happy with and that was good enough for me . I don’t understand why she wants to cause a division between me and my boy - I really miss having a close relationship with him ( and her too ) .
I realise the adult way would be to talk this through but they won’t 🤷‍♀️ I’m happy to listen to their opinions but my son says this is “ too difficult “ so I’m doubtful it will happen. I have to just muddle along with a poor relationship by the seems of things . I just accept sometimes these things just happen. Yes I will concentrate on moving and once I’ve hopefully got back to the house ( my first choice ) I will start a new chapter of my life and begin the process of healing from the loss of my beloved .

I’d forget asking your son for any help. If your furniture is in storage then all you have to do (for now) is to sign a tenancy agreement for the new flat.

When you decide where you want to live, then I’d hire a removal firm and let them do it all.

Other than that, I’d let it be - if you don’t contact them, your son and DIL might start wondering why and contact you.

It’s not a good way to treat you, but some ACs are incredibly self centred.

Hope your move goes ok 💐

Allsorts

Agree with Madgran. Always be calm when speaking with them, don’t initiate contact. They block you because it’s all they can do.
The visit went well so can only assume it’s what happened after that rocked the boat. Your son’s loyalty is his wife and child so don’t make him choose or you lose them all. It’s up to them how they parent.
Concentrate on your move for now.

@Allsorts well yes I asked my son for some help that’s what rocked the boat . The visit was perfect , from my point of view . I’m plain talking and I’m not good with hidden agendas , so if my DIL was sat talking to me but harbouring bad feelings towards me then I didn’t notice . I was surprisingly calm . I know my son’s loyalty is with his wife and I’d never expect him to choose - very sadly his wife seems to be expecting this from him . I know he wants to carry on seeing me and he does want me in his son’s life too - I find all this phone blocking really childish. I’m not trying to contact them and there’s no way I’d ever offer parenting advice . That’s down to them . When I had my son , my mum gave unsolicited advice both to me and my sister and, because we showed respect, we took the comments even though we didn’t always agree with them . My mum deserved respect and sadly, my son doesn’t see this as being important. I’m thinking ahead to the move and trying not to get over anxious about it all - even though I am dreading it x

Hi @Madgran yes it’s a bit disappointing actually. No , actually I contained myself really well during the visit . I was very calm tbh . Nothing actually happened that indicated any further problems looking up . I made a mistake of asking my son for a favour - on the phone I mean . My DIL really lost it which was a shock . She then said I was “ demanding “ etc but apparently this referred to events in the past as well . It just seems that at the moment I can’t do anything right . I’ve not asked about future visits but I am hoping these will materialise. Obviously I’m really stressed at the moment with this forthcoming move . In fact I’m doing it in stages . I’m putting furniture into storage until I can choose between the flat and then the house . I’m trying not to heap too much pressure on , because I know I can’t ask for any help . I certainly don’t want to be stressed if I see them all again . I’m sure that this will happen- it’s just why does my DIL have to make things so difficult for me . There’s always some drama and I find it really tiring . Thank you for your advice - all very wise as before

Ignore the last 3 words

So sorry that this is happening again Ladysu. It was wrong of them to bring your GS round and then block you again, it would have been better if this visit hadn't happened.

They've had plenty of time to decide whether or not they want you to be a part of their lives, so these mind games need to stop.

I agree with Allsorts, you really need to focus on where too and when you'll be moving, then settling into your new home and focusing on this new chapter in your life.

You say you feel like you're being used as a doormat but what can you do, well you need to decide if you want to continue to be treated this way. If there was something about the visit that concerned them then they should have discussed it with you once they'd left. Blocking your messages and calls is grossly immature and cruel.

You have no control over how they're behaving now and may behave in the future, so I think you need to think about what you want your life to be. Of course you want them in your life but do you want this regardless of the cost to yourself.

Only you can decide .

Is this how

Ladysuiei - I’m sorry it all appears to have gone downhill again, it’s hard to understand why.

Any new grandparent would be excited to welcome their new (especially first) grandchild.

Assuming you weren’t screaming around, causing uproar, it’s hard to see what your DIL’s latest drama is all about.🤷‍♀️

I would be wary about getting into a situation where you are constantly anxious and “tap dancing on eggshells” frightened to say anything.

From this site, it’s apparent that some DILs/SILs, do try their best to estrange their spouses from their birth families. Sometimes, it might be justified, other times it’s some sort of jealousy.

But, the baby is not just her son - he’s also the son of your son. Does your son not have a view on all this?

I would concentrate on your life and your move.

Perhaps, at some point, you could sit down with both adults and ask that they tell you what the problem is.

But, for now, I’d leave it be and sort out your housing.💐

Agree with Madgran. Always be calm when speaking with them, don’t initiate contact. They block you because it’s all they can do.
The visit went well so can only assume it’s what happened after that rocked the boat. Your son’s loyalty is his wife and child so don’t make him choose or you lose them all. It’s up to them how they parent.
Concentrate on your move for now.

Ladysue I am so sorry to read this. To meet and hold your grandson and then again to be back to blocked phones etc is so painful. No wonder you feel heartbroken after all that excitement and hope.

You say that the visit was lovely. Then suddenly everything changed again.

I assume nothing difficult happened during the visit? Can I suggest you think carefully about whether your excitement and joy resulted in enthusiasm that may have felt overwhelming to them? Maybe felt like you were pushing too far in your enthusiasm and excitement? That is truly not meant as a criticism but I do think it is worth considering as the sudden change is so strange after they actually bothered to visit. Did that "calm" strategy go out the window? (Unsurprisingly really as they visited after all the problems and you met your new grandson)

I assume that your conversation with your DIL took place after that visit? Could the "too demanding" be referring to that visit and your excitement, enthusiasm, wanting to make arrangements, asking to visit them etc? I'm not suggesting you did do any if those things, (all would ok in the right context). I'm just suggesting you might find it helpful to consider the visit from their perspective in the light of the earlier difficulties before your grandson was born.

I think you are right to just leave things at the moment. If you contact it will presumably be another example of too demanding for them. And the stress of the move as well just makes this all even harder.

IF you do have contact I would still suggest the calm strategy; anything else will not in my view move things forward ... but only you can decide the best way forward for yourself 💐💐

Hello I haven’t listed in quite a while as life has been very stressful. I still haven’t moved but I’ve decided to transfer my flat for another housing association one but I’m waiting on the house too ! I’m intending taking the house and I will give notice on the flat I think . It’s a case of protecting the better flat really and if I free it up then someone else on the list will get it . The house is private rental so offers no guarantee, but as it was where I lived with my late partner I want to give it another try . The estate agent tell me via email that contracts should be issued around 3rd week of April so I’m putting my things in storage until I make a decision. I can’t face 2 full moves !
Well , my son and DIL brought the baby to visit me , allowed me to hold him and the visit was lovely. I was incredibly optimistic about my ongoing relationship with my son and obviously my DIL and I felt so happy. By Saturday they were back to their usual form . I been blocked on the phone , messages gone unanswered and I had a telling off from my DIL confirming what I suspected, that she was the driving force behind all the awfulness. She had the cheek to tell me that she believes I should not have a relationship with “ her “ son and herself as I am “ too demanding “ . This is rubbish. My son has not been asked to do anything. He’s not actually done anything for me since around November. It seems like she’s forcing him to choose between his family ( well me ) or her . This is not uncommon I fear from reading about this scenario on here . I’m disappointed, hurt , angry but most of all heartbroken as now I’ve met my grandson I’m in love with him . How she can be so openly cruel is vey beyond me . I’ve yet to decide how to go forward. I’m not making contact with my son , I’m not asking when I’ll next see them etc but it makes me furious that she speaks to me with such little respect when I am making every effort to keep things friendly. I did suspect she was behind the months of grief I’ve suffered , but I was reluctant to simply blame her . After all , it could have been my son . Now she’s openly told me she’s behind the whole scenario, I can blame her . She is destroying my entire family. On purpose and for no valid reason. The supposed incident in August which started this has been forgotten and replaced by yet another reason. I’m exhausted mentally, both by the anxiety being caused by this house situation and now having all this nastiness to contend with again . Will life ever go smoothly. I’m dreading the move , I really could do with some moral support from my son ( because that’s what families do ) but I really want to see more of them as a family. I feel like I’m being dangled on a piece of string and so unsure as to what the future might hold for me . I was feeling so optimistic a week ago , despite the worry with the house , things didn’t feel so bad . All of a sudden I’m worried sick about everything. I feel like I’m allowing myself to be used like a doormat but what can I do . If they want to see me , of course I will be happy and see them . Obviously I’m back to wondering if and when they might contact me . Also my feelings towards my DIL are uncertain. Why would she intentionally want to cause a rift between me and my only son . She’s incredibly selfish and being unreasonable I know but I’m at her mercy . It does not feel good . So it’s not been a good week . I’m keeping a low profile, resisting the urge to contact my son ( angrily ) to demand what’s going on . I know this sounds like lack of control but I have to say , being treated so badly and having to put up with it , makes me feel pretty angry. I also feel very sad and I’m missing my little grandson- he’s adorable, so sweet and I love him to bits . I hope things work out .

I hope you all found something to enjoy over the Easter weekend, and no one ate too much chocolate .

We came home yesterday, it was a lovely break away. Life feels much easier and less cluttered when we're at our lodge and the dogs love it there too. It's the only time our little poodle gets excited about going out for a walk .

It's been a lovely day here which promoted me to clean the inside windows, the window cleaner having been while we were away. It's a big house so only about one third to do tomorrow to get finished.

I was sat in the kitchen diner when I got back from my singing lesson. The sky was a beautiful blue and the gulls out in force so I sat here listening to their cries (I love them) I thought how lucky we are to be living here and if it hadn't been for being estranged, it would never have happened.

Every cloud has a silver lining as the saying goes .