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Estrangement

In danger of becoming estranged from adult children

(242 Posts)
Grammaretto Sun 17-Mar-24 08:41:55

Whiff is absolutely right. Tough love is long overdue. Sell your house and buy something far away.

DiamondLily Sun 17-Mar-24 07:42:01

First of all, I would tell them they need to find their own accommodation. If they don’t leave, do it legally, with an eviction notice.

If it’s like England, it may take a few months, but it will happen. Their behaviour is not fair on you, or their neighbours.

In my view, none of this needs counselling - it needs tough love from you. You have been over generous and forgiving - to the point they are taking advantage.

If your daughter wants to have a tantrum, then let her have one.

No adult can go through life like this.

Best wishes.💐

Dorrain Sun 17-Mar-24 07:13:22

Elaine I'm afraid you have over indulged your offspring to the point where they are very much taking you for granted.

I would sell the house or else move back to Dublin and live there yourself. As university students who are succeeding they understand rules, deadlines, limitations and expectations so I would start toughening up.
The resentment you feel is understandable, and it'll only get worse until you act and take the reigns.
Financially you have done your bit, its time to cut the apron strings and let them pay their own way.
Unfortunately things will probably get worse before they get better, however you're starting from a pretty low base.
They need to know you mean business, if necessary organise professionals like real estate agents and if necessary get the police involved if you need to evict them. Your daughter has no right to intimidate you and expect your to conform to her overly needy wishes.
I understand how this is affecting your other relationships, so its time to put yourself first and insist they take control of their own lives while you live yours.
Good luck, and stay strong.

Whiff Sun 17-Mar-24 07:12:35

ElaineMcG47 your children are adults and need to stand in their own 2 feet. I have a very simple solution for you which you won't like but in order for your children to grow up and take responsibility for their own lives and actions . Sell your house. But don't give them any money . If they can afford luxury holidays, designer clothes and nights out then they can afford to find there own place to live and pay rent.

If you had been a landlord they would have been evicted years ago .

By not charging rent and letting them think it's acceptable to abuse your generosity they have run riot.

It's time for tough love . You probably will find they both estrange you but they are both acting like teenagers but they are adults . Time they grew up.

Someone will appear here saying your children and you need counselling but that poster is counselling mad. She will blame you but take no notice as she nasty piece of work who thinks she is an expert on every subject under the sun . Plus her gang will also appear to back her up.

You will soon know who I mean . Please don't take any notice of her and do not engage with her as it only encourages her.

This isn't what you want hear but you need to put yourself first and your children need to grow up. But I bet there are people in your life if you have told them what they have been doing have told you the same thing. If you haven't but have close family or friends talk to them and they will help you . You can't let this situation continue it's not doing your mental or financial health any good and if you have any physical health problems it will effect those as well.

Juliet27 Sun 17-Mar-24 07:09:46

I feel very sorry for you and it sounds as though you’ve reached rock bottom. Taking drastic action to improve your own life and mental health will alienate your children but let’s face it, by the way they treat you they sound like your enemies.

Curtaintwitcher Sun 17-Mar-24 06:54:28

Sorry, but if they were mine, I would evict them and wash my hands of them. They obviously have no appreciation of all you have done for them and the privileged life they are living. Let them learn to stand on their own two feet for once.

Coronation Sun 17-Mar-24 06:03:11

I'm sorry you're going through this. When you've been a single parent and devoted your life and energy it must be so painful to be treated like this. Also, you'll probably feel guilty as you feel solely responsible for them. The fear of losing them must be awful. I don't have any advice , just my heart goes out to you. Keep posting on here when you need support.

This is exhausting for you so please take extra care of yourself.

denbylover Sun 17-Mar-24 04:15:38

Reading your post has left me feeling really quite sad. That 2 young adults should/could treat you their Mum with such colossal disregard and disrespect.

I’d echo what others have said, and suggest the sooner you get them out of yr house the better. The treats, dinners etc stop immediately. It’s going to hurt you as a Mum, but they need bringing up short, the gravy train has ground to a halt.

If this means things go cool between you, because I don’t for a minute think your son and daughter are going to like this, then so be it. Pull back, this enabling of their lifestyle is helping neither you nor them, now or in the long term. Good luck, stay strong. All the best.

Bea65 Sun 17-Mar-24 04:12:51

Wow… you sound very kind and caring and your adult children are not
If they are working full time-what Uni schedule do they have? Your lifestyle and theirs seems very comfortable maybe am reading this wrong but the reality is you have 2selfish demanding off spring.. I don’t know how to advise you but am amazed at your patience- I think I would say you are seriously considering selling the Dublin house and give them a timeline…
My heart bleeds for you as you clearly work hard and long to have provided for them and now you have to be firm and say enough is enough… they seem most callous towards you..cut the cord- your own mental health must be challenging and you don’t deserve this treatment.. cupcake

Grammaretto Sun 17-Mar-24 04:10:20

This reads like a bad dream. I hope it is.

Toetoe Sun 17-Mar-24 03:46:31

You sound such a kind loving mum and don't deserve this treatment from your adult kids . Why should you accept this dreadful behaviour when they should be thanking you for all support. What kind of adults will they become if this is allowed and one thing is sure once uni is finished they will still treat you in this disrespectful way . Maybe walking away from them financially and emotionally will give them a wake up call. What pleasure do these kids give you . Pull the plug and teach them to grow up . Best wishes

Grannytomany Sun 17-Mar-24 03:24:45

You need to stop supporting them by providing free accommodation and utilities. Asking them to pay rent (as previously suggested) won’t work because they won’t pay it. They might agree to do so initially but with no real intent to pay anything. I have landed myself in a similar position but it’s by no means as bad as yours and I’m struggling to find the motivation and energy to act harshly enough to extract myself from it. I mention this only to show how much I understand your predicament and why you’ve ended up here.

What I don’t understand is why they can’t find their own place to live if they’re earning full time money? You could still pay the university fees no matter where they live. Or am I misunderstanding something?

You might have to go through a legal process to get them out of the house but the cost and hassle of that is surely going to be worth it? You need to put yourself first now.

No need to worry about estate agents and viewings at the moment. The key thing is to get them out. Then you can breathe a sign of relief before you tackle the job of mucking out the house and getting it into a reasonable state for selling.

Your children are going to scream and shout and rage at you. But that’s even more of a reason to cut the strings just now. Hopefully any estrangement will be a temporary thing.

You will find taking any kind of eviction action extremely difficult. I know that. But just consider how long the current state of affairs might continue if you don’t. I don’t think your children are suddenly going to move out of a free house and be come fully self supporting when they finish university so what will you do then if you don’t act sooner?

I am heartfelt sorry for your plight. It is so hard and so very hurtful when our children treat us so badly and show so little regard for what your hard earned money is providing for them.

Namsnanny Sun 17-Mar-24 02:57:53

ElaineMcG47 First of all I hope you are asleep, as this alone should make you feel better.

Secondly, if you read your post in the morning with a clearer head you might find the answer you seek.

It would be easy for me to say your son and daughter are acting in a selfish juvenile way.
Clearly they are intent on pushing your buttons, and seem to have been for most of their lives. Obviously I don't know why this is, but maybe it's time to treat them as adults?
Tell them you have reached a conclusion that this isn't working out for any of you, and you are going to put the house up for sale asap.

My worry for you is that this may make them treat the house and you worse (if that is at all possible). Making it impossible for estate agents to bring people to view it.
Perhaps on reflection, telling them you will sell it the moment they finish their education is a better way forward.
Can you afford the running costs until then?

It seems your actual relationship with them broke down a long time ago, and you have all been participating in a habit forming 'game'.
They trash you or an extension of you, then you feeling guilty (I presume) and try to clear up the mess.

I think it is too difficult at this stage for any of you to understand the reasons for this circular action and reaction.
So maybe stepping away from each other is kinder?

Clearly you have to look after yourself. You mention a partner who may be able to help in supporting you in some manner.
What do they think you should do?

Good luck and good night flowers

User138562 Sun 17-Mar-24 02:39:42

One more thing. If you let them stay and charge rent, you need to have a rental agreement drawn up.

User138562 Sun 17-Mar-24 02:38:17

I may have missed some details of your situation so apologies if you've already said my suggestions don't work.

Here's the thing. You are helping way beyond your responsibility. You don't have to cut them off right away, although you can feel confident knowing it's justified. No one deserves to be abused in such a way.

You could charge them rent. I would do market price. I would also hire a regular cleaner and make them pay with additional rent. They should pay the full cost plus a tip.

You could also evict them. This is what I would do. Stop funding them beyond any legal requirements. They have jobs and can pay their own bills.

I'm afraid you are enabling them. I don't mean that to blame you. It's just a fact. You do have power here and after repeated mistreatment and ridiculous behavior you need to protect yourself.

They won't change. No amount of convincing will change it. A landlord unrelated to them would never allow this.

There may be consequences to your relationship for setting boundaries but this isn't sustainable as it is and you may be better off.

crazyH Sun 17-Mar-24 00:41:48

Most of our GNs are probably in the Land, but the Owl in me , is wide awake. I am a little drowsy, so I may not have absorbed your post. I will get back in the morning . Try and have a nice sleep

ElaineMcG47 Sun 17-Mar-24 00:34:30

I have two children aged 20 (boy) and 22 (girl)who are university students in Ireland. The oldest finishes university at the end of April. In Ireland, unless you are very poor, parents have to pay for university. I moved to the UK 18 months ago to get a better job to be able to support my children through university.

The children live in a house that I own in Dublin - I bought it when I was 23. They pay no rent as they are students. I pay all the utility bills and maintain and insure the house. They have a very expensive lifestyle as students - lots of foreign holidays, designer clothes, out drinking several nights a week, eat only at the best restaurants and cafes, have Sushi delivered to the door when they feel like it, and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time. They work full-time and go to university to be able to pay for their expensive lifestyles. They still get good grades.

However, they treat the house with terrible disrespect and me to, a lot of the time - I am a single parents since they were aged 3 and 18 months. There has been an infestation of mice in the house on two occasions. The last time this happened, the pest control company said it was the worst mouse infestation they had seen in a private house - and the infestation led to the neighbours house being infested also. This happened because my children, particularly my daughter, left food lying around uncovered, and bits of old food in the sink. I was renting out a room in the house at the time to another student. She had left food rotting on the table and kitchen work surfaces for a week. My children never let me know this, or never asked her to clean up, or never cleaned up the rotting food themselves to prevent a mouse infestation. When my children discovered there was mice in, they never let me know for two months. The final bill to get rid of the mice was 560 euros for the pest control company, and 2163 euros to defumigate the house afterwards and get rid of all the mice droppings. The children, but more particularly my daughter, are still not cleaning up the house. My son will do it sometimes with a couple of reminders. I went over last week to the house, the day after a new heating system was put in which cost 7000 euros, the bin in the kitchen was overflowing, there were pizza boxes with half eaten pizzas on the table, and bits of food in the sink. The external bin had not been put out for collection for several weeks and was overflowing. The carboard rubbish that my son had gotten from his Ikea delivery was left in the front garden. When I asked my daughter to empty the kitchen bin and dispose of the pizza boxes and their contents, she went mad, saying she hadn't time, that it wasn't her job, saying she hadn't time as she was going to work - the external bin is in the front of the house, so on her way out to work. Later I discovered she had no work that day.

There is a Ukranian girl now sharing the house who is lovely and keeps the house clean, but who has to do more than her fair share, because my two children won't help, though she acknowledges that my son helps a lot more than my daughter. This Ukranian girl states my daughter refused to help with any of the cleaning, leaves clothes everyone in the kitchen and sitting room, leaves used sanitary towels sticking out of bins and leaves takeaway foods uncovered and rotting in the fridge until they smell. About three years ago, there were two German girls sharing the house with my children and they couldn't cope with my duaghter's mess, leaving clothes everywhere, not cleaning up, and letting her dog pee everywhere and refusing to clean it up afterwards.

There is a back story to this, and apologies if I am long-winded. My daughter has always been quite a difficult person from a young age. Terrible temper tantrums from aged 2. In teenage years, she would scream the house down if the clothes she wanted to wear for school were in the wash - no uniform for school. Boundaries never worked - her demands were never given in to, and she lost privileges such as pocket money for bad behaviour. She also bullied her brother a lot and would make him cry - when I saw it, I always intervened, though they are still very close and tell each other everything and will back each other up against me. Other people have also found my daughter very difficult including teachers, and the family she stayed with in France when she spent a year there during the fourth year of secondary schooling - she had wanted to this and it was very expensive to do - 15000 for the year. As a teenager she would often threaten to tell social work that I was beating them up, and threaten that she would get my son taken away from me. She used to tell my son that I beat her up, and he would take her side, but when I asked him had he ever seen me beat her up, he would say he never had. She would also tell neighbours that I had assaulted her. When she used to threaten social work, I used to give her the telephone number to ring - I worked in healthcare so had the relevant numbers.

However, there is more of a back story to this. My son is not blameless either. I was very close to my son until he was about 14. At this time, he started to mix in with a bad crowd, and nothing I said or did could dissuade him from this, and he resented how much I tried to keep tabs on him. My son eventually started stealing from me, discovered the pin numbers for my online bank account, sold items from the house - cameras etc. He would have friends in when I was not there and they would eat all the food in the house, so it would be all gone within a day or two - this was before they went to university. They both had parties in the house when I was on night duty - I had to work four nights per month, and once when I went away for a night with my best friend. They damaged the work surfaces in the kitchen by dancing on them, damaged sofas by them and their friends vomiting on them. I had a converted attic in the house which was used as a den, and they put cigarette burns in the furniture and threw burning shorts and jeans out of the attic windows.

Things came to a head in those years before university, when my son age 16 decided to hide drugs in the house for one of his undesirable friends in exchange for 50 euros - the house was subsequently raided on a tip off by our police, the Gardai.. My son subsequently had to go into hiding as there was a threat on his life from the loss of money because the drugs were seized. This meant he had to change school as the drug gang knew which school he attended. No state school would take him because of the risk, but I got him into a private school, which cost 8000 per year. I had to work 55 hours per week though to pay for this school for two years, and eventually suffered with burnout. My son and daughter also had to move out of what was our family home to where they live now, which was my first house, which I had bought at a very young age and managed to keep. The gang tried to intimidate me in my home, and I was living in fear of being petrol bombed for the drug debt. A member of the gang came to my house one night. I knew who was ringing at my door, and I rang the police and they were arrested.

These were not children who were neglected. They did lots of after school activities, which they wanted to do. My daughter's hobby was sailing, and I paid for all this, including her sailing exams. They both also loved music, and had piano, singing, drum and saxaphone lessons. We travelled each summer abroad. They had lots of support with school, and I paid for extra tuition as they needed it.

I guess here, I would just like some opinions. Because of all that has happened, I feel a lot of resentment towards my children, and don't feel any real connection to them anymore. My daughter in particular, has always treated me with some contempt. If I text her, she will not respond for days, or until she needs something from me. If I try and arrange to do something nice with her, she will fob me off constantly. If I talk about how their behaviour has upset me or how I find it disrespectful, they become angry and annoyed and just walk away. If I say that something they have done or said has hurt me, and I feel the need to talk about it, they again become angry and blaming and everything is my fault. It's a big effort for them to do anything for Mother's Day or my birthday - if I don't remind them beforehand they won't do anything, yet I always go out of my way to celebrate their birthdays and buy them something nice, and also to make Christmas special. They will meet up with me when I am home sometimes, but they seem only interested if I am taking them out to an expensive restaurant or with the promise of cocktails and a serious amount of alcohol, and so it's gets expensive for me to try and maintain a relationship with them. Tea/coffee and cake in the local cafe or breakfast/lunch in a local bar is not enticing for them.

I am no longer sure, I can maintain a relationship with both of them. I still feel so resentful and sad about all that has happened and the way they have treated me, and that's impacting on my life, friendships and my relationship with my partner. I am working full-time abroad in the UK, but feel no longer able to do this - just wrecked by everything, and want to work part-time, but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university, but yet I cannot stand to go there, and all the pressure to maintain it when they treat it so badly. After the last night when my daughter refused to empty the overflowing bin, I said I didn't want a relationship with her anymore, that I was so tired of trying to support them when they treated me and the house so badly.

Apologies for such a long post, and thanks to whoever manages to read through it, I just need some direction and advice on all this.