I cannot believe how you have let your children be so disrespectful, this is not good for them for a start, this entitlement. I would sell the house as soon as they finish university and tell your lodger that, she has plenty of time to find alternative accommodation. Tell them you can no longer afford to run two homes. Establish fair but consistabt boundaries , if they think it’s just too awful trying to support them selves and estrange you well you cab5 do much about it, they can always come to your home and pay their way it’s their choice. I am estranged from one of my children but although I bought them up alone, they both were very self sufficient, got good jobs and treated me with love I am proud of them for the lives they have made. Not so proud of being estranged but that’s another story. Despite that they are good parents, happy and in long marriages, so they have the lives they want, which is what we all want for our children.
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Estrangement
In danger of becoming estranged from adult children
(243 Posts)I have two children aged 20 (boy) and 22 (girl)who are university students in Ireland. The oldest finishes university at the end of April. In Ireland, unless you are very poor, parents have to pay for university. I moved to the UK 18 months ago to get a better job to be able to support my children through university.
The children live in a house that I own in Dublin - I bought it when I was 23. They pay no rent as they are students. I pay all the utility bills and maintain and insure the house. They have a very expensive lifestyle as students - lots of foreign holidays, designer clothes, out drinking several nights a week, eat only at the best restaurants and cafes, have Sushi delivered to the door when they feel like it, and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time. They work full-time and go to university to be able to pay for their expensive lifestyles. They still get good grades.
However, they treat the house with terrible disrespect and me to, a lot of the time - I am a single parents since they were aged 3 and 18 months. There has been an infestation of mice in the house on two occasions. The last time this happened, the pest control company said it was the worst mouse infestation they had seen in a private house - and the infestation led to the neighbours house being infested also. This happened because my children, particularly my daughter, left food lying around uncovered, and bits of old food in the sink. I was renting out a room in the house at the time to another student. She had left food rotting on the table and kitchen work surfaces for a week. My children never let me know this, or never asked her to clean up, or never cleaned up the rotting food themselves to prevent a mouse infestation. When my children discovered there was mice in, they never let me know for two months. The final bill to get rid of the mice was 560 euros for the pest control company, and 2163 euros to defumigate the house afterwards and get rid of all the mice droppings. The children, but more particularly my daughter, are still not cleaning up the house. My son will do it sometimes with a couple of reminders. I went over last week to the house, the day after a new heating system was put in which cost 7000 euros, the bin in the kitchen was overflowing, there were pizza boxes with half eaten pizzas on the table, and bits of food in the sink. The external bin had not been put out for collection for several weeks and was overflowing. The carboard rubbish that my son had gotten from his Ikea delivery was left in the front garden. When I asked my daughter to empty the kitchen bin and dispose of the pizza boxes and their contents, she went mad, saying she hadn't time, that it wasn't her job, saying she hadn't time as she was going to work - the external bin is in the front of the house, so on her way out to work. Later I discovered she had no work that day.
There is a Ukranian girl now sharing the house who is lovely and keeps the house clean, but who has to do more than her fair share, because my two children won't help, though she acknowledges that my son helps a lot more than my daughter. This Ukranian girl states my daughter refused to help with any of the cleaning, leaves clothes everyone in the kitchen and sitting room, leaves used sanitary towels sticking out of bins and leaves takeaway foods uncovered and rotting in the fridge until they smell. About three years ago, there were two German girls sharing the house with my children and they couldn't cope with my duaghter's mess, leaving clothes everywhere, not cleaning up, and letting her dog pee everywhere and refusing to clean it up afterwards.
There is a back story to this, and apologies if I am long-winded. My daughter has always been quite a difficult person from a young age. Terrible temper tantrums from aged 2. In teenage years, she would scream the house down if the clothes she wanted to wear for school were in the wash - no uniform for school. Boundaries never worked - her demands were never given in to, and she lost privileges such as pocket money for bad behaviour. She also bullied her brother a lot and would make him cry - when I saw it, I always intervened, though they are still very close and tell each other everything and will back each other up against me. Other people have also found my daughter very difficult including teachers, and the family she stayed with in France when she spent a year there during the fourth year of secondary schooling - she had wanted to this and it was very expensive to do - 15000 for the year. As a teenager she would often threaten to tell social work that I was beating them up, and threaten that she would get my son taken away from me. She used to tell my son that I beat her up, and he would take her side, but when I asked him had he ever seen me beat her up, he would say he never had. She would also tell neighbours that I had assaulted her. When she used to threaten social work, I used to give her the telephone number to ring - I worked in healthcare so had the relevant numbers.
However, there is more of a back story to this. My son is not blameless either. I was very close to my son until he was about 14. At this time, he started to mix in with a bad crowd, and nothing I said or did could dissuade him from this, and he resented how much I tried to keep tabs on him. My son eventually started stealing from me, discovered the pin numbers for my online bank account, sold items from the house - cameras etc. He would have friends in when I was not there and they would eat all the food in the house, so it would be all gone within a day or two - this was before they went to university. They both had parties in the house when I was on night duty - I had to work four nights per month, and once when I went away for a night with my best friend. They damaged the work surfaces in the kitchen by dancing on them, damaged sofas by them and their friends vomiting on them. I had a converted attic in the house which was used as a den, and they put cigarette burns in the furniture and threw burning shorts and jeans out of the attic windows.
Things came to a head in those years before university, when my son age 16 decided to hide drugs in the house for one of his undesirable friends in exchange for 50 euros - the house was subsequently raided on a tip off by our police, the Gardai.. My son subsequently had to go into hiding as there was a threat on his life from the loss of money because the drugs were seized. This meant he had to change school as the drug gang knew which school he attended. No state school would take him because of the risk, but I got him into a private school, which cost 8000 per year. I had to work 55 hours per week though to pay for this school for two years, and eventually suffered with burnout. My son and daughter also had to move out of what was our family home to where they live now, which was my first house, which I had bought at a very young age and managed to keep. The gang tried to intimidate me in my home, and I was living in fear of being petrol bombed for the drug debt. A member of the gang came to my house one night. I knew who was ringing at my door, and I rang the police and they were arrested.
These were not children who were neglected. They did lots of after school activities, which they wanted to do. My daughter's hobby was sailing, and I paid for all this, including her sailing exams. They both also loved music, and had piano, singing, drum and saxaphone lessons. We travelled each summer abroad. They had lots of support with school, and I paid for extra tuition as they needed it.
I guess here, I would just like some opinions. Because of all that has happened, I feel a lot of resentment towards my children, and don't feel any real connection to them anymore. My daughter in particular, has always treated me with some contempt. If I text her, she will not respond for days, or until she needs something from me. If I try and arrange to do something nice with her, she will fob me off constantly. If I talk about how their behaviour has upset me or how I find it disrespectful, they become angry and annoyed and just walk away. If I say that something they have done or said has hurt me, and I feel the need to talk about it, they again become angry and blaming and everything is my fault. It's a big effort for them to do anything for Mother's Day or my birthday - if I don't remind them beforehand they won't do anything, yet I always go out of my way to celebrate their birthdays and buy them something nice, and also to make Christmas special. They will meet up with me when I am home sometimes, but they seem only interested if I am taking them out to an expensive restaurant or with the promise of cocktails and a serious amount of alcohol, and so it's gets expensive for me to try and maintain a relationship with them. Tea/coffee and cake in the local cafe or breakfast/lunch in a local bar is not enticing for them.
I am no longer sure, I can maintain a relationship with both of them. I still feel so resentful and sad about all that has happened and the way they have treated me, and that's impacting on my life, friendships and my relationship with my partner. I am working full-time abroad in the UK, but feel no longer able to do this - just wrecked by everything, and want to work part-time, but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university, but yet I cannot stand to go there, and all the pressure to maintain it when they treat it so badly. After the last night when my daughter refused to empty the overflowing bin, I said I didn't want a relationship with her anymore, that I was so tired of trying to support them when they treated me and the house so badly.
Apologies for such a long post, and thanks to whoever manages to read through it, I just need some direction and advice on all this.
This sounds like a good solution, always assuming that they'll leave. Putting dirty dishes inthe fridge sounds like deliberate provocation.. and I think you'll have to remain very bounderied and firm..
If you will be selling the house perhaps you could financially help your Ukranian lodger.. boy it sounds like she's earnt a helping hand..
What Smileless said !
I wish you luck with your sensible plan.
That sounds like an excellent idea Elaine. I'm sure your lovely lodger will understand and as DL has posted, you can give her a glowing reference which will make it easier and 5 months notice should be more than adequate.
You need to rid yourself of this burden.
I couldn’t read all of your post as it was so long and, quite frankly, raising my blood pressure! Easy for me to say as they aren’t my children but evict them, cut your losses and get on with your life. Your daughter, in particular, sounds a nightmare. You have gone above and beyond for them and you’ve only enabled them. Your daughter may have issues but you won’t be around for ever and at some point she will have to deal with her own problems. Being a parent to AC doesn’t mean being a doormat.
I wish you well. Do what you have to do with a clear conscience and concentrate on yourself.
I think that sounds a good solution. Your lodger will have plenty of time to find somewhere else, as houses take a while to sell.
If you supply a good reference, it should be pretty simple.🙂
Thanks again to all of you for all the advice.
Just to update, my solicitor sent a letter stating that my daughter had to be out of the house by 1st September and that my son could only stay there whilst in college.
I was home last weekend after my lovely Ukranian lodger said my children had left the place in a state and she was tired cleaning the house without their help. She send me photos of the mess my son and daughter had left. My son had cooked with his girlfriend but had not cleaned up, and my daughter had put empty and dirty dishes in the fridge. She informed me that my son had also gotten a hamster and she was concerned that the hamster would not be fed or given enough water and might die. I had told my son that they could not have any animals in the house again after my daughter's dog died two years ago, and insisted he take the hamster back to the pet shop. I reminded him that he could only stay in the house for the next two years of college provided there were no more complaints from our Ukranian lodger. For the remainder of the weekend, neither of them spoke to me, possibly a blessing, but also very awkward, which is why I don't want to live with them.
I am now thinking of putting the house up for sale in September, and helping my son with first month's rent and deposit for a place. I feel bad though as I had promised our lovely Ukranian lodger that she could stay until 2025, but I don't think I can hack the hassle with my son and daughter in the house any longer.
It is such an unhappy situation for you.
Could you have your son to live with you after your DD finishes her studies? Give up your English job and return to live with your DP?
If DS doesn't like that then he can find his own place.
That way you could let the house out for proper rent to strangers through an agency and not have to constantly nag them , your AC, about the state of it.
I think that's what I would do.
Strangers are easier to deal with than family. There is no emotional attachment.
I don’t think students can be quite as slobby as they used to be.
3 of my grandchildren are at Unis - one in halls, the other two in house shares.
The Uni make sure their halls apartments are kept reasonable, and the other two are in rented homes, where the landlords (sensibly!) do monthly inspections.
Student accommodation is hard to get now - no one wants to lose their accommodation or references.
They are untidy when they come home for vacation, but they, through habit, are clean.🙂
DS was the same Iam, his wife was just as bad but since he got divorced his home is immaculate. He says he's turned into me 
.
Placating this level of selfishness and disrespect will hurt them in the long term. It's setting an unrealistic precedent that they will be able to successfully go through life with their vile attitudes. Not everyone is going to be as forgiving and unrelenting in their support as mummy. Sometimes we have to let go to hold on. Give them a deadline and start the process of cutting the cord.
Oh my gosh
It is horrifying truly
The landlords of student housing must be pulling out their hair
Callistemon21
To be fair, though, some students do live in squalid conditions.
Remember this lot?
They often have a huge clean-up at the end of term (or the end of year) but when they get their own places, they suddenly become very house proud. It's a curious phenomenon.
I expect other posters will now tell me that ther student DC were never like that.
I used to despair, especially one of my student age children. She now has an immaculate home. Shoes off at the door !
This is a very long post and I haven’t read all the replies. I hate to tell anyone what to do but it does sound that for your own wellbeing, you must do something and do it soon.
Your children sound like they’ve used and abused you. I know that it is painful to realise that you’ve allowed this but they have clearly had everything they’ve wanted for too long….and you’ve always provided that for them. Primarily they are now working adults rather than students, even though they behave like students, seemingly. So one option is to ask for a realistic rent…the going rate…if they refuse then give them notice so that other people can live there. Another option would be to give notice to everyone in the house. Legally they must all go. Do some work on the house/leave it empty for a short while, then relet. But not to them.
Whatever you do, this must surely come to an end. You will have unconditional love for your children but try to see your children as you would anyone else. I dont think you would want them in your life, sadly. So seperate yourself from them…..see what happens….i think there will be an agreeable, empty space.Maybe in years to come, you can all reconnect but not at the moment.
To be fair, though, some students do live in squalid conditions.
Remember this lot?
They often have a huge clean-up at the end of term (or the end of year) but when they get their own places, they suddenly become very house proud. It's a curious phenomenon.
I expect other posters will now tell me that ther student DC were never like that.
Elaine, I really do feel for you. The situation with your adult children is beyond you now, to the point you want to almost forget that they and your house in Ireland exist. It sounds as though the situation is making you ill.
You describe their father’s controlling behaviour, and perhaps you have overcompensated for it by going in the other direction, asking nothing of your children and giving them everything they want.
If they were my children and I was in your position, and whatever it takes, I would evict both children from the house, let them solve the problems that result from that by themselves, have the house thoroughly cleaned etc, and put it on the market.
As things are, your children are not equipped for the demands of adult life. Having to solve some problems will be very good for them. They desperately need to learn to take responsibility for themselves. They won’t like you for it and it won’t be easy - but could things be any worse than they are already?
Elaine If the expectation is both move out after finishing college, that is completely fair. I would give them fair notice of this too so they can save for a deposit etc
I don't know how well it will go for you but I hope they comply
What their father put both them and you through is totally unacceptable.. You fought hard and well for them and I hope they understand that one day.
Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to reply. It is much appreciated and helps me to get some clarity about my next steps.
Re the children's dad being abusive - he was super strict - too much so - for instance if they didn't eat their lunch, he wouldn't give them anything to eat again until tea time no matter how hungry they were. In the beginning, he refused to let them phone me when they were with him - it was supposed to be at 6 p.m. each evening, and they were quite distressed by this - and unfortunately, I had to take it back to court to enforce what had been agreed. If I fed them before coming to his house, knowing that if I dropped them off at 1.00 p.m. they wouldn't eat again until 6 p.m. he would get really cross with them, so they were afraid to eat before they went to his house - this too I had to bring to Court to sort out as it was his way or the highway. They saw their dad at that time every second weekend and on a Wednesday afternoon.
Re my son and daughter both being evicted - I don't want at all to favour one over the other, but my daughter is finished college at the end of April, and my son has another two years to go. If my daughter could stay in the house rent free during college, then I feel I should do the same for my son, though I don't know how realistic this will be or that it would be good for him to do so at this stage.
I really hate going to the house to check if it is clean and tidy when I go home - I try to only stay a few minutes and then go to my partner's house. It's like picking an old sore going through the front door. My daughter barely talks to me when I arrive home and just goes to her room. My son then gets annoyed if I say anything about the house being in mess, and even more annoyed if I say I fell hurt about his attitude or what he has said to me. I feel really lonely in their company, and feel I am always biting my tongue and holding back my feelings in case it causes a barrage of criticism, and how little they think of me.
I am trying to figures out if I can evict my daughter, but manage to keep my son in the house until he finishes college, but at the same time, I don't know if I can keep visiting the house to check on it every two weeks as it brings back such bad memories.
Someone asked if I was in the UK or somewhere else - yes, I am working in the UK at the moment. Actually, though I love Ireland, being away is easier. I feel anonymous here - that I am not just the mother of difficult children who are about to estrange from their mum. I don't have the issue about telling family or friends here that I have a difficult relationship with m children or where they are or what they are doing. I barely mention them here to anyone. Though my partner is in Ireland, I am not sure if I can go back there permanently, as there are two many painful reminders of all that is happened, and if we become completely estranged, too many people who would know or be asking about our relationship. Ireland is that kind of small place still.
Re whether my son or daughter is worse in terms of the house mess - my son is slightly better than my daughter for cleaning up around the house, but will only do it with several reminders. My daughter won't do any cleaning at all. However, last week I asked my son to cut the grass in the garden - it's a square of 10 x 10 feet - the mower is electric so if the grass gets too high, the mower won't be able to do it. It's still not done, though I have asked him four times and explained why it needs to be done, and that if it gets too long I will have to pay someone with a petrol mower to do it. Yet despite not mowing the grass after a week, he rang me tonight to ask if I could ask my cousin could he stay in his holiday home, there was no question about how I was, what was |I doing etc, but annoyance that I reminded him again about the grass. This is only a small current example.
If and only If these two learn tro stand on their own and begin with a sincere apology for their behavior would I suggest you can consider rebuilding your relationship. However never take on the responsibility of providing for them again
While your fear is becoming estranged is under stable you have already been estranged from any sort of meaningful relationship with these two insufferable spoiled lazy brats. The relationship
You so badly want to preserve - that iod children and their parents is already long flown the coop. So the question is are you commited to being used and abused instead And I certainly hope the answer is no. I would seek legal counsel in how to legally have
Them
Evicted from the property. If they react as I suspect they will with control and hate and tantrums contact the authorities and let it be known they’re making threats to you and or your property so it’s on record. Once they’re outta you can work to have rhe home Put in livable condition and either live in it or sell
It for
A profit and move forward with the things you find meaningful and enjoyable. Your ac need to stand on their own and eat a good helping of humble pie
Callistemon21
It's perfectly plain.
No it's not
How did I twist your words?
I just added to the conversation
It's perfectly plain.
Please could you explain what you mean callistemon?
VioletSky
The very best advice ever given to me was "hate the behaviour, not the child"
This situation is so precarious
No matter how difficult a relationship, when it is gone it is painful
Exactly what I said.
Do stop twisting what posters say.
They are the original posters children though and it isn't outside of scope for this to be dealt with differently. The original poster doesn't seem to want that to happen though. We can give advice or believe there is another way but it is up to people to decide what they want to. People thinking a parent/child relationship being salvageable isn't exactly a malicious thing to want but it's up to people what they want.
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