I'm so pleased that you'll be taking care of the dog Elaine, now please take care of yourself and at the very least, tell your son to leave now 
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Estrangement
In danger of becoming estranged from adult children
(243 Posts)I have two children aged 20 (boy) and 22 (girl)who are university students in Ireland. The oldest finishes university at the end of April. In Ireland, unless you are very poor, parents have to pay for university. I moved to the UK 18 months ago to get a better job to be able to support my children through university.
The children live in a house that I own in Dublin - I bought it when I was 23. They pay no rent as they are students. I pay all the utility bills and maintain and insure the house. They have a very expensive lifestyle as students - lots of foreign holidays, designer clothes, out drinking several nights a week, eat only at the best restaurants and cafes, have Sushi delivered to the door when they feel like it, and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time. They work full-time and go to university to be able to pay for their expensive lifestyles. They still get good grades.
However, they treat the house with terrible disrespect and me to, a lot of the time - I am a single parents since they were aged 3 and 18 months. There has been an infestation of mice in the house on two occasions. The last time this happened, the pest control company said it was the worst mouse infestation they had seen in a private house - and the infestation led to the neighbours house being infested also. This happened because my children, particularly my daughter, left food lying around uncovered, and bits of old food in the sink. I was renting out a room in the house at the time to another student. She had left food rotting on the table and kitchen work surfaces for a week. My children never let me know this, or never asked her to clean up, or never cleaned up the rotting food themselves to prevent a mouse infestation. When my children discovered there was mice in, they never let me know for two months. The final bill to get rid of the mice was 560 euros for the pest control company, and 2163 euros to defumigate the house afterwards and get rid of all the mice droppings. The children, but more particularly my daughter, are still not cleaning up the house. My son will do it sometimes with a couple of reminders. I went over last week to the house, the day after a new heating system was put in which cost 7000 euros, the bin in the kitchen was overflowing, there were pizza boxes with half eaten pizzas on the table, and bits of food in the sink. The external bin had not been put out for collection for several weeks and was overflowing. The carboard rubbish that my son had gotten from his Ikea delivery was left in the front garden. When I asked my daughter to empty the kitchen bin and dispose of the pizza boxes and their contents, she went mad, saying she hadn't time, that it wasn't her job, saying she hadn't time as she was going to work - the external bin is in the front of the house, so on her way out to work. Later I discovered she had no work that day.
There is a Ukranian girl now sharing the house who is lovely and keeps the house clean, but who has to do more than her fair share, because my two children won't help, though she acknowledges that my son helps a lot more than my daughter. This Ukranian girl states my daughter refused to help with any of the cleaning, leaves clothes everyone in the kitchen and sitting room, leaves used sanitary towels sticking out of bins and leaves takeaway foods uncovered and rotting in the fridge until they smell. About three years ago, there were two German girls sharing the house with my children and they couldn't cope with my duaghter's mess, leaving clothes everywhere, not cleaning up, and letting her dog pee everywhere and refusing to clean it up afterwards.
There is a back story to this, and apologies if I am long-winded. My daughter has always been quite a difficult person from a young age. Terrible temper tantrums from aged 2. In teenage years, she would scream the house down if the clothes she wanted to wear for school were in the wash - no uniform for school. Boundaries never worked - her demands were never given in to, and she lost privileges such as pocket money for bad behaviour. She also bullied her brother a lot and would make him cry - when I saw it, I always intervened, though they are still very close and tell each other everything and will back each other up against me. Other people have also found my daughter very difficult including teachers, and the family she stayed with in France when she spent a year there during the fourth year of secondary schooling - she had wanted to this and it was very expensive to do - 15000 for the year. As a teenager she would often threaten to tell social work that I was beating them up, and threaten that she would get my son taken away from me. She used to tell my son that I beat her up, and he would take her side, but when I asked him had he ever seen me beat her up, he would say he never had. She would also tell neighbours that I had assaulted her. When she used to threaten social work, I used to give her the telephone number to ring - I worked in healthcare so had the relevant numbers.
However, there is more of a back story to this. My son is not blameless either. I was very close to my son until he was about 14. At this time, he started to mix in with a bad crowd, and nothing I said or did could dissuade him from this, and he resented how much I tried to keep tabs on him. My son eventually started stealing from me, discovered the pin numbers for my online bank account, sold items from the house - cameras etc. He would have friends in when I was not there and they would eat all the food in the house, so it would be all gone within a day or two - this was before they went to university. They both had parties in the house when I was on night duty - I had to work four nights per month, and once when I went away for a night with my best friend. They damaged the work surfaces in the kitchen by dancing on them, damaged sofas by them and their friends vomiting on them. I had a converted attic in the house which was used as a den, and they put cigarette burns in the furniture and threw burning shorts and jeans out of the attic windows.
Things came to a head in those years before university, when my son age 16 decided to hide drugs in the house for one of his undesirable friends in exchange for 50 euros - the house was subsequently raided on a tip off by our police, the Gardai.. My son subsequently had to go into hiding as there was a threat on his life from the loss of money because the drugs were seized. This meant he had to change school as the drug gang knew which school he attended. No state school would take him because of the risk, but I got him into a private school, which cost 8000 per year. I had to work 55 hours per week though to pay for this school for two years, and eventually suffered with burnout. My son and daughter also had to move out of what was our family home to where they live now, which was my first house, which I had bought at a very young age and managed to keep. The gang tried to intimidate me in my home, and I was living in fear of being petrol bombed for the drug debt. A member of the gang came to my house one night. I knew who was ringing at my door, and I rang the police and they were arrested.
These were not children who were neglected. They did lots of after school activities, which they wanted to do. My daughter's hobby was sailing, and I paid for all this, including her sailing exams. They both also loved music, and had piano, singing, drum and saxaphone lessons. We travelled each summer abroad. They had lots of support with school, and I paid for extra tuition as they needed it.
I guess here, I would just like some opinions. Because of all that has happened, I feel a lot of resentment towards my children, and don't feel any real connection to them anymore. My daughter in particular, has always treated me with some contempt. If I text her, she will not respond for days, or until she needs something from me. If I try and arrange to do something nice with her, she will fob me off constantly. If I talk about how their behaviour has upset me or how I find it disrespectful, they become angry and annoyed and just walk away. If I say that something they have done or said has hurt me, and I feel the need to talk about it, they again become angry and blaming and everything is my fault. It's a big effort for them to do anything for Mother's Day or my birthday - if I don't remind them beforehand they won't do anything, yet I always go out of my way to celebrate their birthdays and buy them something nice, and also to make Christmas special. They will meet up with me when I am home sometimes, but they seem only interested if I am taking them out to an expensive restaurant or with the promise of cocktails and a serious amount of alcohol, and so it's gets expensive for me to try and maintain a relationship with them. Tea/coffee and cake in the local cafe or breakfast/lunch in a local bar is not enticing for them.
I am no longer sure, I can maintain a relationship with both of them. I still feel so resentful and sad about all that has happened and the way they have treated me, and that's impacting on my life, friendships and my relationship with my partner. I am working full-time abroad in the UK, but feel no longer able to do this - just wrecked by everything, and want to work part-time, but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university, but yet I cannot stand to go there, and all the pressure to maintain it when they treat it so badly. After the last night when my daughter refused to empty the overflowing bin, I said I didn't want a relationship with her anymore, that I was so tired of trying to support them when they treated me and the house so badly.
Apologies for such a long post, and thanks to whoever manages to read through it, I just need some direction and advice on all this.
Thank you, Smileless2012 - I got the dog as he had been asking for one for five years, and I thought he would be mature enough to look after it, but he just lost interest after everyone had met this gorgeous puppy. His sister was the same - now when I asked his sister to make sure the puppy was fed, watered and walked twice daily, she said the puppy was spoiled. He such a gorgeous puppy. I am sort of besotted with him, but cannot believe how they are with him now. He went from having a name to being 'the dog.' I am so sad about it. I will definitely be caring for the dog full time.
Oh Elaine, why on earth did you get your son a dog when you know what he's like?
I'm glad that you're obviously very fond of and concerned for the dog as it looks as if you're going to end up caring for it full time. Your son is unlikely to take it with him when he leaves and TBH, it wouldn't be fair on the poor animal if he did.
In your position I would be telling him that I'm keeping him to his word that he would be moving out, when you moved in and he has to leave before September.
He cannot and should not expect to live in your house when he wont even talk to you.
Please don't let his threats of estrangement deter you from making the decisions that are in your best interests. You've had nothing but nastiness, ingratitude and abuse from them both for far too long and it's time to bring it to an end.
Be strong for your own sake .
I am pleased to hear that.
Your son is earning 50k in his first post college or is it, university job?
That's a big salary.
He can start paying you back now.
Things have to change.
If they threaten to become estranged from you, it may be for the best as they give you nothing but grief.
I have decided not to go on holidays so the dog will be with me and I am moving back into the house so I will be the one looking after him. He is truly a beautiful dog.
So many issues here....but firstly, I am concerned about the dog.
He is being neglected.
Can you find a new owner?
I am back for some guidance here. Everything was okay for a few months. For Mothers Day I got a card saying they appreciated how much I did for them. Then, my son wanted a dog - he had wanted one for many years. I got him a dog. The dog lives in a house that I own - the former family home. He lives there with my daughter - they are now 22 and 24. They were all about the dog at first - a Lab - put then lost interest after about 8 weeks. There is a very small garden in the house and they were leaving the dog poo pile up for days, and I would have to travel over half an hour to clean up after the dog several times a week, they were just giving him short walks or none at all, so I took our beautiful lab for a walk.
Things got worse when I said I was moving back into the house. I can no longer afford to rent an apartment and leave them in the family home. I want to semi retire as I am just exhausted, have arthritis, am starting to have mobility issues as a result and am facing several surgeries for arthritis. I still work full-time but want to go part-time. When I said I was moving back into the house my son said he would move out and would cut contact with me. Since then, about 5 weeks ago, he has barely talked to me when I am over in the house. If I shout up Hello when I know he is there, he refuses to answer even if his friends are there. My daughter only occasionally comes down to talk to me if I am in the house. My son has just gotten his first post college job at 50k per year. My daughter is studying for law exams and is only on slightly above minimum wage. My partner and I were due to go on holidays next week, but I came over today, after so many promises of cleaning up daily after the dog, to see 12 x poos in the garden in a stony area of 6 x 3 feet - and one I stepped on on the patio. I also came over to the front door of the house being unlocked - I have spoken to them both over the years for many years. I got so mad over the dog poo that I told my partner I could not go, as I am so worried about leaving the dog. My daughter said it wasn't her job to organise a schedule for cleaning up the dog poo, my son I could take the dog to my apartment or put him in kennels if I was that worried about the dog poo - I am worried about it from a hygiene and dog safety and comfort issue. Then when I said if he wasn't going to share chores he should move out as soon as possible, he said he would be moving out in September and that that would be the end of our contact. I am not proud of the fact that I texted my daughter that I hate them both for what they put me through - see opening post. I will apologise, but I am so fed up of just having to cope with everything, having to pay for the house - utilities - give reminders re cleaning - they have had mice twice and my son had bed bugs. I am working full time so that they can stay in that house as I knew they would threaten to estrange if I moved back. I am physically now unable to work full-time. I get no kindness back from them. I am having surgery in July and will be non weight bearing for 6 weeks and 6 weeks in boot afterwards, they have given so many reasons why they cannot help - I am only about 30km from them.
You definitely need a break and a hand on your pocket. Hopefully they will turn into pleasant adults.
Hi! Allsorts, I actually can't engage with them now, as my mental health has been impacted by all this. It was for years but I managed to hold it together but now am totally exhausted. In relation to where I was when my son was doing all this stuff. I worked part-time until my son was 12 and then went back to work full-time as financially it was not possible to continue part time. I was probably one of the few parents in his group of friends that was always keeping tabs on where he was, ringing him, going out to look for him when he wouldn't answer his phone, and having his friends to stay on weekends so I knew who they were and I knew where he was, but this still didn't stop the stealing from me, mixing with a bad crowd, occasional drug taking, then getting involved in hiding drugs. His sister knew what was going on but never told me.
Elaine, read your post back to yourself. Every parent wants the best for children but you, you have allowed them to be disrespectful, entitled, rude and frankly spoilt. No one even likes each other. It is your role as a mother to set boundries your home sounds like a battlefield. There is a massive difference in financially helping someone reach their full potential if they put in the work, get a part time job etc and really work but not shelling out and entitling bad behaviour.
Your son in particular, how did he do all that stuff such a young age, where were you? Once they go away you will have lost them so change it now, to say your not interested in seeing them is silly, because you will regret how you got to that place. Whatever you are doing has to go on the back burner.
Thanks, to all of you for your relies. They really helpful! Cocopops - I am so enjoying my apartmentwithoutmy daughter bring there. It's do lovely to come hime to no tension or mess.
I realise that I am enabling them. I am confused though as many oarents in Ireland help their children with fees for masters courses if they can. The parents of a c9llege friend of my daughters recently paid for her masters fees. When I was growing up my parents sold a field to put me through college. However, I doubt my daughters college friend treats her parents the way my daughter and son treat me - of other young adults can appreciate what their parents do for them, why can't my son and daughter.
Well done for changing the lock. Your apartment is your peaceful sanctuary Elaine. You have told both of them you are not going to contact them for some time. Excellent. You are managing the situation. No need to do anything more. Just stick to your guns, leave them to their own devices and enjoy the peace and and quiet.
Stop enabling them
You can only change your won behaviour, not theirs
I'm really struggling to understand why you continue to put up with this abuse from your AC Elaine 
.
In your position I would have paid for your D's flight home but based on her total disrespect for you and your property, there's no way I'd have allowed her to live in another property I owned.
I would be taking steps to get her out of the apartment, withdraw any financial help/support from your D and your S immediately and tell them not to contact you, you'll contact them if you need or want too.
Allsorts is right, you're on a merry go round of enabling them to behave as they do, and then arguing about it. You keep repeating the same behaviour while hoping for/expecting a different outcome.
This needs to end Elaine, for your sake .
IMO the OP's AC are acting like children Babs and their behaviour wouldn't have been tolerated in any way, shape or form by me whatever age they are.
Step back immediately and don’t get involved, nothing good will come of any contact you might have right now with your adult children. You have health problems and need to prioritise your own well-being.
Is too much hostility whenever you see your ACs and I fear they simply regress to the way they were before and start acting like children. They need to grow up and you need to stop funding them.
All the best x
What a very long post, but you three need distance and let them manage. All this name calling and anger you will be estranged You are in a merry go round of enabling then rowing about it, Let them grow up and make mistakes and put your cheque book away,. You are the adult only give advise when asked is a good place to start, when they do ring, ask how they are.
It's a long time since I wrote here, and things have moved on with my children, again a couple of weeks ago, not in a positive way.
My daughter left the family home to go travelling. She ran out of money and had a row with the people she was staying with and wanted to come home, but no money to return, the flight was 1300 euros, 1100 stg, which I paid for her to come home. While she was away she was less snappy and difficult. She cam home to no job. She said she was applying for many jobs, but didn't get any. I found this hard to believe as Ireland is full employment currently. She wasn't living in the house I owned as I had rented out her room - she wasn't coming back for a year, and she made it very difficult for the Ukranian girl who is living there, to live there as my daughter is so untidy and dirty.
My daughtered moved in to an apartment that I had purchased from downsizing our family home and selling an old cottage that my uncle had left me. She tarted dating an old friend, who became her boyfriend who was supposed to have a government job here, but never went to work. They spent most of the day in bed, watching TV, eating takeaway. Soon her room and ensuite was full of rubbish, half eaten food, plates and cutlery were disappearing to her room and never returning, some insects decided to take up residence in the half eaten food, empty coke cans. The ensuite bathroom was filthy. She refused to help with any cleaning but did resentfully attempt some when I said she could not stay if she was going to treat the apartment like she had treated the house she lived in for college with her brother. When I started reminding her of the boundaries re cleaning and not having her boyfriend to stay when I was there, she became really sullen and snappy. It was like when I lived with her up to late teens early 20s and she would not acknowledge me or speak to me.
She eventually admitted she did not want a job, but was going to study for her law exams while remaining on State benefits. I said I didn't think this was good that she should work part-time and study part-time as she would get skills and up to date reference and could, as some of her friends had done, claim State benefits for the days she was working. Then one morning at 7.00 a.m. she started shouting at me that I wanted her to do the law exams and she did not want to do them. I had never said she should do them, she made that decision herself, after I said that I was not in a position to give her 15k at the moment for a masters degree. I am going for 4 x orthopaedic surgeries, finding it difficult to walk even to the bustop and there is a chance that after being off for two years for all these surgeries that I might not work again due to issues with arthritis. Then she said that I told her to take a particular job, which I had never done. Then she said I never cared about her feelings. I have spent years listening to her feelings, trying to help her to sort out what she wants to do. I am so tired now. I am facing multiple surgeries for arthritis. I am worried about them as I have issues with anaesthetics. I am also worried about how I will financially manage with being off work and only on State sickness benefit for almost two years.
After more shouting at me at 07.00 a.m. I became annoyed and just said I often felt a 'murderous' rage towards her because of all her demands over so many years without any acknowledgement of my limits. I had said this calmly about 12 feet away from her on my way out of the apartment. I was in no way aggressive towards her. I said if she continued to behave this way she could leave the apartment I could not take it any more.
My daughter then telephone her brother, and told him I said I was going to murder her. He telephoned me at 07.30 stating that my daughter had been crying and hyperventilating on the phone. She had not been hyperventilating when I left though she was a little tearful. My daughter has done this to her brother and I before. Once ringing her brother crying telling him that she had lost her job and he needed to collect her. When he got there, she laughed and said she just needed a lift home. My daughter has often told lies about me to her brother and other people, including that I hit her, mentioning people who she said saw this. When I asked these people, they said that my daughter was lying that they had never seen me hit her. Though my son says he has never seen me hit my daughter he still believes her.
After my son ringing I just snapped as it brought back all the times she told lies to neighbours, friends etc about me hitting her when I didn't, how I could have lost my job, the amount of times I cried about it and felt ashamed to see people because of her lies.
My daughter lies a lot, most recently saying I refused to get her private health insurance (very common in Ireland) and told her to go to London where she would have free NHS, I never said this, and got her the private health insurance. A frequent lie is that I never offered to pay for driving lessons so that is why she doesn't drive. I have offered to pay for driving lessons as I did for my son so many times, and my son has heard me say this to her.
Anyway, after my daughter rang my son, I saw a missed call from him, and he rang me, and berated me for threating to murder my daughter. I stated that I had said to her that I felt a murderous rage towards her because of how she treated me, that I had said this calmly walking out the door of the apartment and that my daughter was as usual, trying to triangulate him and get him on her side. I had said that his sister was narcisstic. He then started berating me that I was a professional and I could not behave like this, and stated that I was thinking was 'always warped' that he wasn't trying to take sides. I didn't remind him of this on this occasion as I don't think it would have been fair, but I had almost a flashback to the time we were on holiday sin Slovenia and I cried for two days with him and his sister shouting at me that I had beaten his sister and he believing it, but still saying afterwards he never saw me hurt her physically.
I am sorry this is such a loan post. My daughter returned to the apartment that evening with her boyfriend, no sign of any distress, stating I couldn't change the locks or evict her as she had rights. I said that I had a locksmith coming to change the lock on the front doo. She didn't believe me. The locksmith came changed the lock. I texted my daughter that she could collect her stuff any time - she did the next day. She is staying with her boyfriend and his dad.
I texted them both to say I was not going to contact them for some time as I needed a break for my own mental health. My son saying my thinking was always warped was a last straw.
Any advice on how to manage this temporary/permanent estrangemnetn would be helpful.
Yes, I know.
The last update was September?
I disagree keepingquiet especially when as Elaine's been doing, the OP intermittently comes back with updates.
These old threads are a waste of time...
Btw was referring to Elaine.
jeanie99
I find it very difficult to believe any of the story.
If it is true why would anyone in their right mind put up with this sort of behaviour.
If I told you our story which I won’t right now, you probs wouldn’t believe that either.
You really would be shocked how much some parents will take from their ACs.
Oh I have no problem believing Elaine the OP.
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