What did you do to heal and move forward from estrangement?

It's surprising, when you mention estrangement and find out others have the same in their families. My old friend who I tentatively admitted it to wasn't surprised at all.

Nature over nurture, I suppose. Did you ever see the TV programme about when someone brought up some wolf cubs alongside some puppies? They were all given the same amount of love and everything they could need. By six or eight weeks the wolf cubs were home wrecking and a bit savage. The puppies, meanwhile were cuddly and cute, a bit bitey but generally nice. The program was meant to show that however you bring up a wolf they are not a dog.

We have kids, we love them and put them first but sometimes difficult genes from other family members come to the forefront when you wish they would not. We often talk about which facial feature a baby has or who they take after, but personalities and behaviours in my family seem to have been passed on, unfortunately. They say it skips a generation. Well, I would never behave like it.

It saddens me thinking of how much I loved them, how I cared for them so much and everything I did was all about them, but they can still turn on us, colossally betray us and act abusive without a shred of guilt or shame.

Yet I don't want their "duty" or falseness either. Sometimes I regret having kids except I have one who is kind and good! I wonder if this is a pattern that the abusive EC's kid will do to them. How would they feel? Of course they won't think it will ever happen to them. How could they because I never thought it would happen to me.

There was estrangement in the family before they existed (on my Mother's side)

The abusive head games have affected my health badly, so going forwards I am disengaging and thinking what's good and beneficial for me. I definitely understand why older adults talk about going "SKI-ing" (Spending Kids Inheritance) and doing what is best for me for once in my life.

It's good that you were able too Keepingquiet and are a part of his and your GC's lives .

I worked on my relationship with my son. I knew it was the only way I would get to see my GC. It took a lot of work but we're there and hopefully will be for good now. I was a pretty bad mother looking back...

It's good for us when we get to the stage where we can be honest about our estrangements, when we can be truthful without feeling guilty and/or ashamed and fearful of being judged.

It takes longer I think to no longer be afraid of judgement, to understand that unless someone has experienced being estranged, they're unlikely to understand or even believe that the once close and loving relationship you had with your own child can suddenly count for nothing.

It's good for others too when us being honest enables them to be honest too and realise as we have done, that this is common and seems to be becoming more so .

How wonderful NannieDeb that you and your son are reconciled .

I was estranged from my DS for several years after my first marriage broke down. Not my choice. He was a teenager at the time and influenced by my ex and his family. I tried everything I could think of until I had nothing left and was just broken. I only started to heal after accepting that I couldn’t change the situation and I then put all my energy into work and my hobbies so that I had very little time or energy to think about DS. Although of course I did still think of him all the time. I do now consider myself extremely fortunate and I’m so grateful that he did eventually get in touch and now 10 years later we have a good relationship again. It was the worst time of my life but keeping busy got me through it. I hope this helps in some small way

I cut off some family members a few years ago. It’s weird because I sometimes miss them but I’m missing what I thought I had and not what I had.

I was gaslighted by a narcissistic friends who stepped up to “support” me after this. What she did was far worse.

Consider this 12 steps group (don’t be put off by the name)

Adult Children of Alcoholic and Dysfunctional Families. ACA. There doesn’t have to have been alcohol involved. They meet in person or online

Another group is CODA or Codependency. They cover many of the same issues. Some of these groups have women only sessions

Good luck

I think estrangement is more common than people think. Sometimes it’s not talked about much, in real life, but it’s there.

An old chap near me never saw his AC’s - they just never got involved with him. No visits, no phone calls, no cards etc. The help and company he got came from good natured neighbours.

The day he died, the squeal of tyres from his ACs charging over here immediately to see if there was anything worth having in his home, or what was in the Will, was astonishing.🙄

If anyone asks why I’ve cut out my step-kids, and brother, from my life, I just tell them I don’t need toxic people in my life now.

I don’t get into it - the behaviour of my step-kids and brother is down to them.🤷‍♀️

Today an old friend who I've not seen much over the years asked about my kids. I told her the truth and it was so refreshing to do so without fear of judgement. Instead she told me her Mother had a similar experience at the hands of her sister in law. It probably happens more often than we think.
At work I avoided saying anything for a long time, making nice noises about my colleagues grandbaby photos while dying inside. Then one day I told a colleague and she told me she was estranged from two of her kids (and one had been in prison)

We who didn't choose this should not have to keep it some sort of shameful secret. No one has the perfect life, no matter what it looks like. As time goes on I find it easier to say , but I pick and choose who I tell.

I am enjoying being creative, time with my pets and reconnecting with old friends and new who are childless. I think we judge ourselves more harshly than anyone else does and it's a relief to lay that down and now it's not so fresh and I accept I can't be a "normal Grandma" because they don't want that, I just open up in a factual way to those I trust.

They have chosen for their child to grow up thinking they don't have loving GP and other loving family members and I feel sad for my GC, but all I can do is get on with my own life because I can't (and shouldn't) try to change anyone.

When my mother died 20+ years ago, her sister told my whole family that I no longer wanted anything to do with any of them. I didn't find this out for many years. We were never close. My mum helped her sister out in many ways over the years. So I have never understood why she did it and not going to confront her now. I have made contact with one cousin and her mum, my aunt, that's how I found out. The majority of the family have either passed away or moved away. I'm happy with my own little family and no big family parties to attend trying to look happy. Rant over thank you for reading.

You have nothing to apologise for Flower. I can't begin to imagine how hard this must be when you don't have anyone at home to support you, it's hard enough when you do .

In the early days if it was someone who knew our family so asked after our ES, I told them he'd estranged us Hilltop and we weren't allowed to see our GC.

It really is OK to respond in the way that you're comfortable with .

Thank you you very much for your help there. I will think about your suggestions. How do you build a new life without your estranged family is a near impossible thing to achieve. I have no family left around me as my only child now a parent herself has cut me out of her life taking with her her husband and 2 teenagers. They have grown up without knowing me. I am fighting back outwardly cheerful and socially active but once back home the tears flow. I don't think I will ever get over it. My health has suffered developing a condition as a result of the deep deep unhappiness. Passtimes and hobbies new friendships are however a great help but privately the sense of loss is staggering. So sorry for being so depressing.

Flower, l have an ES. If l meet someone new l say l only have a daughter and her family. If it was someone who may remember l have a son and asks after him, l would say he lives a long way away now and his wife isn't very well and she doesn't travel well so l don't see them. OK, it's a sort of lie, they do live some distance from me, and l believe his wife is the cause of our estrangement so l think it's an excusable statement.
Actually l have never needed that yet but l have that ready , just in case.

Even after more than 11.5 years it depends on how I'm feeling Flower but usually I say we have a son in Aus. whose divorced and no GC and don't mention our ES.

The hurt from being the estranged is that it isn't your choice and that you do not agree with the reasons given you from the estrangers for estranging. One particular thing I could really welcome help with is: How do you respond when outsiders ask you about your family because they are unaware of the pain their question causes. They don't mean any harm, they are simply showing natural curiosity as you do when you socialise with people. What to say?

In my case I had to grieve for the mother I never had and never would have and for the hope of any different outcome as with narcissists you always make excuses for them particularly if they are your mother. Grieving was not an easy process as basically you are grieving for the love and understanding that most take for granted but that you finally come to realize has been missing in your own life. It took me until my forties. Then I had to grieve for my own survival and although it took months if not years. I am free and happy now and nothing she says or does affects me only in that I pity her spending her last years full of bitterness and hatred...this is no longer my problem. I wish all you estranged from others the best life that you can make for your self..Hugs and kisses

@Davisuz your comment "I think we all make far too much effort with narcissistic, selfish people, just because they are related to us" is bang on.

Im so sorry you had that horrible experience of the wedding, but you are right. We do give people too much headspace. I do miss my son but I also know I have given him far too much headspace and that things will always be a bit "off" because we don't share the same values and possibly because of his wife who is only interested in her own family.

@Tove that sounds good!

I have been writing things down to get in perspective and talking to friends.

I embraced nature, hugged many trees, walked in the woods and completely forgot those who hurt me. I still embrace trees often and do walks, not always a wood but certainly at least parks daily and sometimes a walk at the promenade. I find nature calming and healing

I tried for years to have a relationship with my ex husband's family, as much for the sake of my daughter as anything else. Finally I was de-invited from my lovely niece's wedding as my ex's sister didn't want me there! I should add by the way I was the innocent party in the divorce as my husband deserted us. The horrible way I was treated over the wedding was the final straw as I felt deeply hurt and insulted. I cut them all out of my life once and for all and the sense of peace was overwhelming. I was giving them all so much headspace and for what? The only one I see is the niece who was bullied into excluding me. Don't know why I didn't cut them out years ago! I realised the effort had all been one sided and they were all deeply boring anyway. I think we all make far too much effort with narcissistic, selfish people just because they are related to us.

That's right @Polly7 "it takes two to tango". It's always good to step back and check youre not the only one making all the effort.
I too would admit if I was wrong, but not everyone would- and for me it seems they are happy with the distance. My son actually said that he was happier at a distance. So I am giving him what he wants. It's not what I want, but we can't both be happy because we want different things.

Pythagoras good words. I find it very difficult with any kind of disharmony With family members or friends, It's in my nature to be a peacemaker, but sadly now older I struggle with it as look at their behaviour more so I'm just trying to not let it bother me if I've done anything wrong or regret I will apologise, and then see what comes back from them and if it's nothing I'll just have to accept it. I wish I wasn't like this, but this is something I can't change. It's a bit of a torture to be honest. It depends what day it is because I do think that Life is too short to fall out with people there again you can't be accountable for other peoples behaviour. The one thing that the world needs is more personal responsibility but many don't even understand this my friend believes in karma which keeps her in a good place and thoughts?

So sorry you've got this going on too with your sons and their Stepdad. Also with your daughter. It's so sad and these men have been the good guys! My husband gave up everything for the kids and was happy to do whatever for them, so he is also totally shocked.

If my kids had had a loving , stable and solvent Father in the first instance, I may not have considered marrying again, but I married a kind and good man who was happy to be a good stepdad.

Re your daughter being told to cut off her family- I think counsellors DO this because I've also had counsellor tell me to cut of MY parents "because it's all their fault." I didn't though. I think perhaps it's a flattery thing or they genuinely think they are helping, but I didn't take their advice to cut anyone off .

Do you believe there's any justification for your son's outburst MsDaisy? You say your H has been a wonderful step dad to your sons so it sounds as if what your son's said is unfair and unjustified.

I do understand that you feel torn but if you truly believe that this attack is unwarranted, I think that needs to be your position.

If possible you need to have a frank and honest conversation with your son, listen to what he has to say but don't be afraid to voice your own thoughts and feelings on the subject.

Babs has made a relevant point when she says too often grown children are actively encouraged to just estrange themselves, to disconnect. You're in an unenviable position, caught between your son and H but if your son is being unreasonable, I think you need to tell him so.

You're so right about the importance of things being talked about especially in families Babs and I can't help but wonder how fewer estrangements there'd be if everyone could do so .

Yes do take a break, your well-being and the well being of your husband needs to take priority right now.
All the best.

What on earth could he accuse his step father of, is your son jealous. I think that's the major reason for estrangement,
Agree with babs, counselling often ends with child cutting off contact with the whole family, true in my case, can everyone else be wrong and just they right? No alternative but leave them to it,

He said he's unwilling to have counselling, so there's that. Yes, I definitely think it's the past resurfacing but he will only ever talk to me.
I won't cut off contact and will answer him if he contacts me, but at the same time I'll take a break until that time.