Estrangers and their 'entitled' expectations

Indeed.

And many trace back to toxic AC’s or in-laws.

Every estrangement is different, as has been said so many times before.

So many things trace back to ACEs

@VioletSky
It sounds as though it was a blessed release for you and you have found a fufulled life beyond that.

I also did not raise the AC who has estranged us so have no responsibility for that or the way they were rasied.

RubyLegend I have been estranged by a toxic person and it was nothing but a relief

I mourned the relationship I should have had but I never once missed the toxic behaviour before it

I am healed from that relationship now though and it was not my child so I had no responsibility for raising them

I agree RubyLegends, for us it was toxic and abusive, unfortunately not all people just walk away, some have to trample all over the the people they are estranging before they go, emotionally and mentally.

VioletSky

RubyLegends

Of course that doesn't necessarily make you toxic/hostile but there are situations where the lead up to, nature and application of the estrangement is predominantly toxic/hostile. Those estrangements are meant to hurt.

Each situation is different but those who move away and become low contact is miles away from situations where there is an element of punishment and abuse from those choosing to estrange.

Estranging someone is not toxic/hostile

It is removing yourself from the relationship

No one is forced to have a relationship with anyone

If someone realises they are being toxic/hostile to you and estrange you that is actually a healthy choice not a toxic one

However you want to phrase it - that depends on the nature of the estrangement. My experience is of a particularly destructive period in our lives, it was toxic, it involved blackmail, it involved threats. So yes, estrangement CAN be toxic/hostile.

Estrangers make their choice and and if it's healthy for them, then it obviously works for them. I can't think of when a relationship could be classed as forced. Anyone can walk away at any time if its the best thing for them.

But being estranged by people whose behaviour is toxic and hostile is certainly anything but healthy.

RubyLegends

Of course that doesn't necessarily make you toxic/hostile but there are situations where the lead up to, nature and application of the estrangement is predominantly toxic/hostile. Those estrangements are meant to hurt.

Each situation is different but those who move away and become low contact is miles away from situations where there is an element of punishment and abuse from those choosing to estrange.

Estranging someone is not toxic/hostile

It is removing yourself from the relationship

No one is forced to have a relationship with anyone

If someone realises they are being toxic/hostile to you and estrange you that is actually a healthy choice not a toxic one

It's the manner of breaking contact that can be toxic/hostile not necessarily the person whose doing so. As DL and Babs have posted moving away and limited contact that eventually fades away, is not a toxic/hostile estrangement.

Sometimes it is the estranger and/or their partner who is toxic so not necessarily the family whose been estranged.

As difficult as estrangement is, we could not have endured a relationship with our ES's toxic wife, even at a distant.

Of course that doesn't necessarily make you toxic/hostile but there are situations where the lead up to, nature and application of the estrangement is predominantly toxic/hostile. Those estrangements are meant to hurt.

Each situation is different but those who move away and become low contact is miles away from situations where there is an element of punishment and abuse from those choosing to estrange.

Diamondlily

I still don't understand

If you cannot move away for whatever reason but don't want a relationship, that makes you toxic/ hostile?

DiamondLily

inkhooves

Babs03

Nobody is entitled to inheriting money or property. If someone doesn’t work for something they are not entitled to it, whether estranged or not. Is a great privilege to inherit anything and not a right.

That’s your opinion, Babs, and you are entitled to it! Not everyone shares it, however. In some nations (Scotland, for example, has a legitim for all fathers’ estates, and French law is even more explicit) the child is entitled to an inheritance. It shouldn’t be surprising that individuals have differing views on what they are owed by the ones who decided to bring them into the world, since entire judicial systems do. Food for thought

Most posters here don’t live in Scotland or France. If they do, then they have, presumably, to take account of the laws.

Here, thankfully, we can all decide for ourselves who we leave what to.👍

It is true what you say about French parents are not legally allowed to cut children out of their wills.

However, in my legal French will, I have not evenly split my children’s inheritance because in my first marriage I had a house and therefore for my 1st born has this taken into account, she will not have any inheritance from her father.
Money which has been brought into a French marriage, as well as your inheritances while in a marriage, are legally kept separate from the marriage melting pot if a split happens.

Children have to pay for care in retirement homes, however, a friend of mine was able to prove that she had been abandoned when she was very young, therefore she didn’t pay even though her aged mother had put her as next of kin.

VioletSky

Diamondlily

What is a "toxic/hostile style" estrangement?

Different to a move away, contact drifts one. Which I’m sure you know.

Diamondlily

What is a "toxic/hostile style" estrangement?

Babs03

Smileless2012

When you're told by your AC that you are no longer a part of his and your GC's lives, that is estrangement paddyann. It's not the same as irregular contact or moving to another country and contact being very limited, not the same thing at all.

Agree.
Some situations evolve, children or siblings move away, were perhaps never close, had a falling out, and eventually go ‘no contact’.
But an estranged adult child can suddenly sever relations with their parents in such a hostile and toxic manner that it is totally alien to all other family fall outs and understandable ‘no contact’ situations.

Yes. Relatives move away, contact becomes limited, maybe fades away, and that’s all part of life.

Very different to a toxic/hostile style estrangement causing family breakups.

Two different things. 🙂

Technically it is the same thing, people emotionally and physically estranged but sent the odd contact in order not to make it obvious

Smileless2012

When you're told by your AC that you are no longer a part of his and your GC's lives, that is estrangement paddyann. It's not the same as irregular contact or moving to another country and contact being very limited, not the same thing at all.

Agree.
Some situations evolve, children or siblings move away, were perhaps never close, had a falling out, and eventually go ‘no contact’.
But an estranged adult child can suddenly sever relations with their parents in such a hostile and toxic manner that it is totally alien to all other family fall outs and understandable ‘no contact’ situations.

The increasing ease of communication with technology makes estrangement required if you need space from a very pushy family member.

I would have been fine if moving thousands of miles away meant an occasional phone call or some letters. Instead, I was supposed to have contact almost daily. They want pictures, update, IT help, on and on and on. There's no space unless you block. When the person you need a break from can reach you in any of a dozen different ways, you start to feel trapped.

It used to be much easier to endure a toxic family relationship because you still were able to live your own life.

My grandmother disinherited my mother (wont go into the reasons) but she left me a sum in her will and the contents of her house. The house itself was to be sold and the proceeds divided between two aunts, They were anxious for me to empty all the contents so they could get on with it. There was some pretty valuable furniture in there and they (the aunts) did not recognise its value. At the end of the day there was hell to play when I made quite a lot of money through selling it. That money came in very useful when I decided to quit my job and go to uni.

When you're told by your AC that you are no longer a part of his and your GC's lives, that is estrangement paddyann. It's not the same as irregular contact or moving to another country and contact being very limited, not the same thing at all.

I believe estrangement has been going on for a long time.Before communication was easy,as it is now people could just move away ,there was only post and phone and sometimes a wee letter once a year at christmas or a quick phone call was all that was needed.My Aunt went to Canada mainly because her controlling husband wanted to get her away from her large very close family.We rarely heard from her and it was only after her death at 40 that we found out she had a miserable life and had wanted to come home within weeks of leaving.Her chldren were put in care also without telling s.Her husband didn,t want any contact .I finally found my cousins 22 years ago and met one 10 years ago.They knew virtually nothing about their family this side of the ocean .Nowadays its called going no contact...but its always been there

Sara1954

It’s hardly a trend, I’m the only person I know who has done it, although I know plenty of people who would probably like to.
Obviously there is a knock on effect, for example, I no longer see my brother and his children, they are all young adults and I haven’t seen them for over twenty years, that makes me sad.
But don’t tar us all with the same brush, my reasons were complicated, and I think, totally justified, and she can leave her money to whoever she wishes, I don’t want it.

I totally agree with you I was estranged from my toxic mother for 40years until her death for the sake of mine and my children’s mental health and I wouldn’t have wanted a penny off her and never got it

MercuryQueen

One comment that always bothers me is, “they can’t have been that bad, you/your spouse turned out well!”

Some of us turned out well IN SPITE of our parents, not to their credit.

The learning to break the cycle, to question the way we were raised, deliberately choosing not to be who they told us we were or should be… it takes a lot of work, strength and courage.

As to inheritance? There’s nothing my parents could leave me that would make up for all the abuse.

I 100% agree MQ—it takes rare effort and character to break a cycle of familial trauma or dysfunction! I always tell my DH the same thing—that I’m proud of the person he is despite his parents, under his own steam. As much as they would like to take credit for his accomplishments, he’s broken their mold in every single regard, beyond contest. That includes creating such financial stability that makes any inheritance they may or may not leave him utterly unnecessary.

That doesn’t always make the feelings around such things easy, however. I expect that when the time comes, it will dredge up a lot of complex emotions.

I appreciate getting to witness here a variety of perspectives on the matter.

inkhooves

@DiamondLily I didn’t mean to imply that everyone here was subject to French or Scottish laws, merely that there are a variety of viewpoints on what children are entitled to. The poster I was responding to made a rather strong assertion as fact; my reply was only meant as a gentle reminder that it’s more subjective than that (legality aside). I apologize if I was unclear <3

No, I was just talking about legal systems. I believe, in places like Scotland and France, that children are legally entitled to an inheritance, regardless of family relationships.

Our legal system, in England, works differently. 🙂

I agree VS.

I can understand that MercuryQueen. I wouldn't want to have been left anything by my parents if they'd abused me.

One comment that always bothers me is, “they can’t have been that bad, you/your spouse turned out well!”

Some of us turned out well IN SPITE of our parents, not to their credit.

The learning to break the cycle, to question the way we were raised, deliberately choosing not to be who they told us we were or should be… it takes a lot of work, strength and courage.

As to inheritance? There’s nothing my parents could leave me that would make up for all the abuse.