Estrangers and their 'entitled' expectations

Nice post keeping quiet ✅

Keepingquiet, wise words

My experience of estrangement has taught me that some people have poor childhood experiences where money seems to have a high profile.
I see it here with regard to wills etc. My own mum was the first person in my family to leave a will because she owned her own home but had little else.
I was told by a financial advisor that inheritance is the main cause of family breakdown both before and after death.
What a sad reflection on society if this is the case.
There are mistakes made on all sides in human relationships. Blaming the parents/grandparents/children etc is no way to move forward.
Accepting some responsibility instead of casting blame is the only way to see through these complex situations.
It would seem there are those such as Youtube influencers, some psychologists and therapists, as well as social media expressing petty disputes as if they were world wars, are equally to blame by exploiting families at vulnerable times and seeing separation, exclusion or estrangement as the only answer.
I find it all very sad but maybe the tables will turn soon and people will begin to see families as the basic unit of a civilised society and begin to support instead of attacking them.

I know that if my mother was contributing to this thread, she would say I was selfish, ungrateful, she would say my responses to her were hysterical and completely uncalled for.
She would say I always was difficult child, and she had always done her absolute best for me, all lies, but she believes it.
This is why I’m a bit sceptical when parents say they have no idea what they have done, I’m sure that happens, but often I think there is probably fault on both sides.

Smileless2012

^Enter scene new brides. The parents have been estranged post haste as they found the mother in law and father in law insufferable^. Another common trend, parent and AC relationships torn apart by a third party.

Why can't some of these d's.i.l and s'.i.l. have nothing to do with their insufferable parents in law and allow their husbands and wives to continue to have their relationships with their parents. They can't be all bad to have raised two lovely sons .

Agree totally.
And tbh we probs all find some members of our families insufferable but not impossible. So including them in get togethers etc., is hardly the end of the world. This over pickiness with regard to in laws is getting silly, and is something is said or done that is deemed terrible by the wife I imagine the son can have a quiet word with his parents and try to smooth things over.
GCs benefit from a family on both sides.

I remember reading years ago that someone in America was ‘divorcing’ his parents because he wanted nothing more to do with them. I remember rolling my eyes and thinking how crazy it sounded.
But I guess estrangement, especially if it’s been going on for years, is the child divorcing himself from his parents to make life easier for him? ( I’m using he in this post but is just as often a daughter I know )

Estrangement is such a complex situation.
I’ve know people who were treated quite terribly as a child, smacked, shouted at etc, yet they remained in close contact with their parents, even seemed to love them.
And you hear of children going no contact for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Which must be absolutely awful.

It's not a new trend I don't think, back in the day it was 'The Black sheep of the family' and so on. Every estrangement is different so I wouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

You don't have to leave anyone anything, just write your will with a solicitor as you wish your estate to be shared and to who.

Smileless2012

^Enter scene new brides. The parents have been estranged post haste as they found the mother in law and father in law insufferable^. Another common trend, parent and AC relationships torn apart by a third party.

Why can't some of these d's.i.l and s'.i.l. have nothing to do with their insufferable parents in law and allow their husbands and wives to continue to have their relationships with their parents. They can't be all bad to have raised two lovely sons .

Good point and one I had not thought of. The parents have become much more difficult over the past 20 years as they became more entangled in their own world. The new DILs are modern professional women who 'do their own thing'. It is indeed a very sad situation.

I find not only has estrangement tainted my future, but it has also tainted the memories of my estranged children in their childhood, it has a skewed my whole memory.
Freedom of choice is a right I totally understand that, but it can come with consequences on both sides.
I cant comprehend how anyone who is intentionally cruel to you would expect to be entitled to anything.

Enter scene new brides. The parents have been estranged post haste as they found the mother in law and father in law insufferable. Another common trend, parent and AC relationships torn apart by a third party.

Why can't some of these d's.i.l and s'.i.l. have nothing to do with their insufferable parents in law and allow their husbands and wives to continue to have their relationships with their parents. They can't be all bad to have raised two lovely sons .

Some psychologists are saying it seems to be increasing, but it appears there havent been any longterm studies, so we havent really got reliable data to go on.

It does seem to be a growing trend. As has already been posted here, estranging/going no contact is suggested by therapists, counsellors and even an Agony Aunt.

We also see on this thread and and have seen on others contributions from those who have estranged and do not want to inherit which makes sense to me, so I don't know why not including an EAC in your will is sometimes viewed as an act of anger or an absence of love. I don't assume that all who estrange are driven only by anger or because they don't have any love for those they've estranged.

I wouldn't want or expect to inherit from someone I'd refused to have any contact with. Inheritance is a gift, not a right. As parents, we don't have the right to have a relationship with our AC and our AC don't have a right to be our beneficiaries.

A relative of mine who suffered with delusions of grandeur married a woman of the same ilk. I cut contact years ago as they bored me rigid and I found them rude. However, they have two lovely sons who have done extremely well professionally. Enter scene new brides. The parents have been estranged post haste as they found the mother in law and father in law insufferable. Mother even tried to take over new daughter in law's wedding arrangements when she had a family of her own and she herself to arrange wedding. Mother in law now bewailing she was not included. Do people stop to think? If I had ever tackled them and said: But you are overbearing and controlling, they would have told me I was jealous and not as competent as they were.

Bridie, I disagree, I don’t think it’s a trend, I’m sorry for your situation, and I know nothing about you so I can’t comment.
But I sincerely doubt that anyone looks on it as a lifestyle choice, it will only happen when things eventually become intolerable.

It is a trend sara1954, statistics sadly bear this out, and it appears it is mothers not fathers who are to blame as cause of estrangement.
As a mother, I tried, I tried so very hard tying myself in knots trying to fix a situation I didn't know the cause of...and ultimately there isn't a cause...just selfishness and cruelty and a sense of power on their side.
Me I'm powerless, I can do no more, they broke me, so their entitlement has ended.

Babs03, I am not suggesting for one second that the parents are always to blame, there are a lot of estranged parents here, whose hearts have been broken by the actions of their children.
I’m inclined to come to the conclusion that no one, including me, are completely without blame, I genuinely tried my best for years, but I always realised they were disappointed in me, I loved my dad, but after he died, without his steadying influence, she became intolerable, but I know I was a difficult child, not what she was hoping for, so our estrangement is all for the best.

I have no experience of any kind of estrangement within my own family, wider family or close friends.

It’s your business and choice about your Will, just don’t be too hasty if you have more than one child.

Sassysayso, my mother is alive and well, but has made it quite clear to my husband that she’s cut me out of her will.
She has quite a substantial amount to leave after inheriting the entire estate of her unmarried brother, and she is loving the power it gives her.

@Sara1954
Am sorry to hear of your estrangement. But I doubt you will be tarred with the same brush.
As parents who are estranged from our adult daughter, despite years of abuse from her, we know that society would definitely judge us harshly and tar us with the same brush as negligent/abusive parents. So we can never talk about it. Only our 3 other daughters know what happened and have supported us all the way with our estrangement.
Is very different for an adult child estranged from parents, society immediately assumes that the child is the victim.
We don’t look for sympathy or kindness but we just done want to be kicked in the teeth by people who know nothing about our lives.

My mother and I were estranged and when the time came she disinherited me. It saddened me, not because I was being grabby and wanting a handout but because it was the last opportunity for her to show me her love which had been missing from my life.

It’s hardly a trend, I’m the only person I know who has done it, although I know plenty of people who would probably like to.
Obviously there is a knock on effect, for example, I no longer see my brother and his children, they are all young adults and I haven’t seen them for over twenty years, that makes me sad.
But don’t tar us all with the same brush, my reasons were complicated, and I think, totally justified, and she can leave her money to whoever she wishes, I don’t want it.

Estrangement has increased. If someone wishes to estrange, then it’s obviously their right to do so.

However, actions have consequences - estrangers should not think they’re entitled to be there for a hand-out, when the person they have estranged, has died.

Grabby and hypocritical. 🙄

If you view tue you tube videos provided on the " has estrangement caused you a loss of confidence thread" you will note the vast increase in their trend in the last decades, it seems to be encouraged also by therapists to go no contact on a whim.
People in my life who have caused me heartbreak due to their entitlement to go no contact without communication of their reasons, may find their entitlements in my will null and void.

I can remember back in the day that grown children would not necessarily become estranged from their parents/families if they didn’t get along, it would seem absurd, indeed I can remember complaining about my strict mother to anyone who would listen but no one ever suggested I disconnect from her. Perhaps that wasn’t always for the best though, maybe some young adults did need to disconnect from toxic relationships. But now we have gone too far to the other extreme. I like to read Agony Aunt columns or lifestyle advice given in the Guardian and whenever a young adult has probs with their parents you can bet that comments given in response to the OP will overwhelmingly suggest disconnecting despite not being in full possession of the facts, and even the Agony Aunt regularly suggests this.
In some cases it is probably the only way, but in such an increasingly large number.
Have read much into this after becoming estranged from our adult daughter, and though feeling alone with this problem to start with we now have encountered many other parents in the same boat and reading about it has proved that numbers of estrangements of all kinds are now at their highest.
Counselling is another double edged sword, with adult children or anyone having problems with the family being advised to walk away from such problems. Imho family counselling is a much better option than a counsellor taking one person’s word for everything and then issue advice that could result in years of heartbreak.
As for wills/inheritance will not get into that one.

My son estranged me in May 2020 via email but not only me but all our side of the family. Four days before we had a lovely time on my birthday. COVID rules in place so sat apart . He even talked about putting paving in my garden to make it safe for me. I never had any warning what he was going to do. It's horrible to realise your son is cruel and cowardly. He wasn't brought up like that . He should have told me to my face yes I would have cried but if he explained the real reason and not the assumptions and changing family history in his email. He said he loved me but didn't like me and to give him time.

I did . Pre covid he came every week with my 2 grandson's for 7 months after I moved to live closer to both my children. I knew from February that year they where expecting again in July . So I waited heard nothing . So as it was my son's and his 2nd son's birthday same day in August sent cards short friendly letter plus a cheque saying how it was to be spilt. 3 baby presents and a card. Everything came back all unopened the day after their birthday the babies presents were crushed and a letter which said he didn't want my vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere near me or my family ever again. Zero contact.

I have never been vindictive or manipulative in my life . I looked after my mother in law after my husband died she out lived him for 11 years and I hated that woman for 40 years but I couldn't not look after her even though she denied she had a son or grandchildren and refused to go to their weddings.

At the time my son sent the email he knew they had found a problem with my heart and I was waiting for a bubble echocardiogram. Turned out I was born with a hole in the side of my heart . Also I was born disabled even so I was a hands on mom and when my health got worse in 1988 and couldn't go out by myself the children never missed out on anything. I was still a hands on mom and looked after them.

After his letter I thought long and hard and cut him out of my will and took out both powers of attorney my daughter and son in law are my attorney's it was cheaper to do it all together. I had to get a letter which cost £40 from my GP stating my disability was physical and not mentally ill. And my solicitor asked me to write why I was cutting my son out. Had to write about our family life ,my husband's cancer and death and looking after my parents and mother in law until their deaths. What my relationship was like with my son. It took me a weekend from hell writing it as I thought I had dealt with things in my life but writing brought everything back. I ended up writing 13 pages of A4. My solicitor cried when she read it. Both letters and copy of my sons email and letter are with my will and never see the light of day unless my son contests my will. But he won't know when I die as no one will tell him as there is no need.

I didn't know but anyone can contest your will up to 2 years after you die if they think they have a claim.

The ironic thing is both my children always said they didn't want any inheritance and to use my money on myself. Told them it would just be my home as I doubt there would be any cash. But that will have to be sold if I end up in a home .

And anyone thing I did this lightly or it was vindictive. When my son misbehaved as a child there where consequences this is the consequence of his behaviour and the fact later found out my daughter in law was jealous of our relationship. She liked it when I lived over 100 miles away even though she to wanted me to live closer . I live 40 mins away from them via car. My son told me the boys got excited when they realised they where coming to nannies. Last time I saw them they where 4&2. Their brother is now 4 and I don't know his name of date of birth . My other 2 grandson's will be 6 and 8 this year.

Wills are personal things and you leave things to who you want . There is no automatic right for children to inherit unless a will isn't written. We wrote our first will once we married and kept it updated as the children came along and after my husband's death. It's important to always use a solicitor it's not cheap but at least you know it's legal and done according to you wishes.

And before anyone condemns me for cutting my son out of my will . You don't know me or what I put up with after my husband died aged 47 when our children where 20 and 16.