Guardian article - i never want you around your grandchild

Wouldn't our children believe that if we listen and change with changing times?

It was mentioned in passing but the blame was squarely at the parents door in my opinion and it is not just about not changing! I cannot go back and re write my childrens childhood but equally I want it known that AT THE TIME I did my best!

The article does talk of different ways of doing things with different generations, quite clearly I thought. The problems arise when families don't evolve with or accept newer ways of doing things it says and I am condensing a chapter severely there.

The thing that is not properly acknowledged either in this article or any I have read is that as parents our knowledge and guide lines on parenting were not the same as now! We are being judged and found wanting by this generations standards and that is not equitable as the goal posts have changed radically! Yes I would be a different parent if I had the knowledge and skills that todays parents have but to condemn me because I did not know these things bringing my own kids up? I did the very best I could with the tools I had at the time

Thanks luminance. I couldn’t quite put that into words.
I’m that sibling but I also recognise the behaviour of my siblings as they are all being controlled too
The setting up siblings against one another is a thing too. Very common themes

An interesting characteristic of an abusive person is that they very often choose one victim, whether that is any one of the different kinds of abuse. This enables the abuser a much better chance of hiding their behaviour. Many families have been broken by claims of abuse where one child claims to have been sexually or emotionally abused and are not believed due to lack of evidence. Even with the evidence of physical abuse, it can be hard to prove when a whole family stands together against an accusation and asserts that the child is clumsy or must have been hurt elsewhere. Yet it is well known that any abusive person intended to get away with hiding that behaviour, thus making it easier to keep a victim in line and fulfill their needs that most of us would not understand and perhaps not the abusive person themselves. I don't know if any inclination to believe a majority in any situation makes sense when this method of operating is so prevalent.

I’d add ive known many families where grandparents and parents of struggling adult children have been able to readily acknowledge short comings. One I’ll never forget was a caring family but with inter generational failings. They recognised the Magdalen laundries malign contribution

It’s easy to ‘blame abuse’ but it can be more complex

Babs03

I think a lot boils down to who the victim is, some ACs are victims of abuse or neglect etc., and so are victims of their parents. Totally unacceptable. Some estrange, but oddly not all do. However, if the AC abuses or bullies his/her parents, or simply estranges because of a third party etc., until the parents mental well-being is affected then the parents are victims. Also totally unacceptable.
And we cannot move forwards with this if only accepting one group of victims whilst stigmatising and tarring the other group with the same brush.

My experience of working with families is that often there will be 3 or 5 siblings, only one of whom alleges neglectful or abusive parents, that adult often is reported to have been more difficult to bring up and to have been off the rails by early teens.
It’s true every child in that family had individual relationships with parents and siblings but they grew up in a family where parents belief systems and values were ok and absorbed by their siblings.

No problems with mine at adolescence, perhaps that why one of them acted like one in her forties. 😬
Sago, I'm sorry you had such dreadful parents, it must have been very hard for you and your brother. Why do such people have children? I do hope you have the happiness now that alluded you as a child. I watched a programme yesterday, where a young man was placed in so many foster homes before a family adopted him, he is now in a relationship but his eyes looked so sad and I think that rejection as a baby and young child broke him. I hope my daughter remembers all the love she had(still does but rejects it) and she isn't sad.

Babs03 Thank you, all I wished for was a few years, of life without them.
My father died 32 years ago, my brother 10 years ago and my mother in 2020.
It’s wonderful not having their toxicity in my life, I’m 61 so hoping for a few more years of peace.

That is truly awful Sago. I hope that despite all this you have now found the peace and calm that obviously wasn’t possible. with such a family.
As you say every story is different and many are complicated/messy, there is no blueprint for estrangement. You say you wish you had gone NC earlier, that could have been the wise thing to do, but at least now you know that you come out of this well, as an obligated if not loving daughter, you did your best though nobody did the same for you. Time now to live the life you deserve.
Sending hugs 🤗

Sago, I recognise the details of your story even though my circumstances are different. The narrative always seems to follow the same pattern

My brother (the golden child) estranged himself at the age of 18, our mother was a narcissist and our father an agressive bully, unfortunately my brother was an aggressive, narcissistic bully.

My mother banged on about my brother all the time, he was still wonderful despite the hurt he caused, no occasion was a happy one because he wasn’t there, she ruined my wedding, our sons baptism and more.

I was the scapegoat, my parents made my life a misery, I wish I had gone NC.
I tried but she made my life hell, phoning at all hours, threatening suicide, saying she would get my children put into care.

She told appalling lies to many people about me, there are still people that do not speak to me because they think I stole from her, treated her cruelly and plotted to get her money.

The truth is I was dutiful but not loving, I took her out once a week, had her for lunch every Sunday, cleaned her house etc.
I never took a penny from her, quite the opposite I subsidised her shopping trips.

She told me more than once the wrong child had gone.

There are of course two sides to every story.

That’s the problem because these posts are public and it’s well to be mindful that anything we post can be reproduced in the tabloid press for example.

@Norah
The posts were from trolls and are often highly personal and even abusive.
They are not so much looking for a reaction as looking to sabotage the thread completely.

Farzanah

I think most posters ignore these posts. They are presumably posted to cause a reaction. I don’t know. They were deleted when I came on.

Agreed.

I didn't see the deleted posts. Ignoring in silence is the best policy, no debates. Happy people ignore what they dislike & move along.

There are certainly many reasons for estrangement, often relation ship is good until a new partner arrives on the scene, which destabilizes the whole relationship, Prince Harry would be an example, many others also.

What I particularly liked about the article was that it wasn't really blaming or shaming. I of course realise that not all situations are covered but it was interesting to read what organisations and individuals who specialise in this area had to say about the common causes. We have a lot of comments against the article, what if anything stood out as a positive or advice anyone would wish they had tried or found helpful in some way?

I think a lot boils down to who the victim is, some ACs are victims of abuse or neglect etc., and so are victims of their parents. Totally unacceptable. Some estrange, but oddly not all do. However, if the AC abuses or bullies his/her parents, or simply estranges because of a third party etc., until the parents mental well-being is affected then the parents are victims. Also totally unacceptable.
And we cannot move forwards with this if only accepting one group of victims whilst stigmatising and tarring the other group with the same brush.

JaneJudge

surely most estrangements aren't about what happened when people were teenagers.

No they aren’t, many occur after marriage when an AC has children of they’re own. Sometimes they could be much older. In some cases a third party could be pushing for an estrangement, a wife or SiL or even an unprofessional counsellor/therapist.
But I think a lot do hark back to their teens or childhood when hurling accusations, some deserved but many not.

I don’t think that’s what posters are suggesting JaneJudge. There does seem to be a link between estranged adult children and their adolescence being more turbulent than the ones their siblings lived through. I’ve lost count of the number of families where 3-5 siblings are doing ok but one of their siblings is estranged from parents, blaming them for any problems in their lives

surely most estrangements aren't about what happened when people were teenagers.

I agree, adolescents are a nightmare and my grown daughters now freely admit this and we laugh about it as DL says. Sadly one daughter never really moved on from this stage, is now estranged and still hates us, so as the Americans are prone to say - go figure!
What worked well for our other three daughters obviously didn’t for our other daughter whom we still love and will never hate despite her behaviour towards us. But am pretty sure the author of the article above would go with the ‘parents are to blame’ analysis.
Is never that simple.

That’s the way in most families, David and DiamondLily. The necessary conflict between parents and children, especially adolescents, is lived through. maturity has the child moving into adult life and parenthood with growing understanding, love and acceptance.
Estrangement is fortunately rare though sometimes the only way

David49

My own second daughter went through a rebellious stage where she thought her parents (we) were horrible to her and she would never treat her children like that.

We held the line and she got over it, when she did have her own children she was even tougher than we were!.

Yes, my daughter could be a nightmare as a teenager.🙄. I was the worst mum ever…😉

Now, she’s married, with 4 adult children of her own, and has found out, over the years, that it’s not always so simple, and that she was, indeed, a nightmare lol

We laugh about it now. 🙂