Sensible words, especially "takes at least two to tango"
Lots there to think about
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Estrangement
Another perspective on estrangement
(181 Posts)As we all know, there are many different scenarios that lead to estrangement in families and every one is unique. There are posts from estranged parents here about EAC who cut them off with little information or warning, parents who have been estranged over something seemingly trivial, and posts from EAC who have understandably decided to protect themselves and their families from future harm after years of abuse.
Sometimes EAC are described as having "thrown their parents away" or being cruel and disinterested. I am not doubting that is the case for some, and impossibly painful to cope with. I just wanted to give the perspective of a EAC who was very reluctant to estrange. For some EAC, they have tried to reach out to their parents numerous times, and would have loved for their parents to enter into a discussion about the situation so it could be resolved, only to be met with denial, refusal to listen, insults and complete lack of self reflection. For some EAC this can keep going round in circles for years because they really believe, or perhaps just hope, that something will shift one day and the situation can be resolved. They write letters, emails, have phone calls trying to explain the issue, only to be told at a later date that their parents have got no idea what the issue is.
They too see the adverts on TV of the perfect families at Christmas, or have an idea in their head about how things should be, and feel sad that they don't have that. But eventually, accept that the situation isn't healthy for anyone involved and it would be less toxic to cut ties and end the cycle.
I'm not quite sure what my message is. Perhaps just to remind everyone that every single situation is completely unique, and that an outsider can never fully understand the ins and outs. That EAC sometimes do give the reasons for estrangement and yet their parents claim not to know it, and some EPs do genuinely not know the reason, and that both of those situations are infuriating and heartbreaking. That some EAC may have been influenced by a third party, but also that some EPs do put the blame on a third party because it's easier than accepting dysfunction in their own family. But someone else having the opposite experience to yours does not invalidate your experience, and there is room for empathy for people on all sides.
I cannot understand the reasoning behind the "troll" posts but if they are intended to change people's ways of thinking, unfortunately they only serve to separate EAC from EPs who might otherwise benefit from hearing each others points if view.
Let's not make assumptions either way about people we know so little about.
DiamondLily
Yes, families can be complicated. Personalities also vary. All sorts of issues can cause estrangement.
I think it get combative when an OP posts their situation, whatever it might be, and there’s then, sometimes, a pile on, with complete strangers calling them “liars” or delusional. 🤷♀️
And, then, of course, you’ve got the regular bores who are hell-bent on causing disruption, and not actually helping. 🙄
I find the pile ons happen in various circumstances with various individuals involved. Takes at least two to tango and there is seldom a shortage of participants on this forum, whatever their estrangement status may be. Just an objective observation.
When others engage long drawn out arguments, it’s not really helpful and most of the time gets personal. Ditto for the unnecessarily snide or sarcastic comments meant to subtly provoke.
I enjoy the conversations like the one started by this OP. I enjoy offering support. Sometimes I like to offer a perspective as a grandmother who is close to what I hope is an avoidable full estrangement because my primary purpose in posting is to help another avoid such a fate. I don’t enjoy the generalisations as though we’ve all met each others EPs or EACs and can therefore insult them along with the family member (not speaking of clear abuse cases at all, obviously). This forum has the potential to encourage healing or further a rift, and so I keep this in mind when I post. Someone else is reading and potentially carrying the positive or negative encouragement back to their real life situation. Words can be powerful, especially to those in delicate, emotionally vulnerable states.
Agree DL, trying to apply a ‘one size fits all’ to estrangement is like trying to knit water.
No case is ever the same.
And apportioning blame to random strangers on a forum is fruitless though for those wishing to do so it might make them feel better for all of two seconds, it does nothing to further their understanding.
Yes, families can be complicated. Personalities also vary. All sorts of issues can cause estrangement.
I think it get combative when an OP posts their situation, whatever it might be, and there’s then, sometimes, a pile on, with complete strangers calling them “liars” or delusional. 🤷♀️
And, then, of course, you’ve got the regular bores who are hell-bent on causing disruption, and not actually helping. 🙄
I find it incredibly easy to skip over combative, rude posts that are clearly meant to upset. Once I read and I see where it’s going, it takes no effort to avoid reading more. I simply scroll on.
I do agree that generalizations and name-calling do no one a favor in discussing this topic. Family conflict is complex. An ‘us’ vs ‘them’ mentality in these types of settings isn’t very helpful because you simply can’t know anyone’s full story well enough to declare total innocence or guilt in their situation. I think if people take the approach of listening to one another and taking each situation as its own, there is more room for productive conversation.
That would be good wouldn't it DL.
Smileless2012
Exactly DL and we've been saying so for years.
Yep. I only hope, at times, that the happy and healed can move on with life, feeling positive👍
No need to apologise FGT as I said, it can be confusing {tchsmile].
Exactly DL and we've been saying so for years.
Oops! Apologies everyone. 😮
Smileless2012
It's a bit confusing FGT because there is a member of GN called ShropshireLass but the OP is ShropshireGal.
Oh…right, ok. 🙄
Every estrangement is different - it’s that simple. People making assumptions adds nothing.
Whatever the various reasons, stereotyping anyone, from any so-called group, is pretty stupid. 🤷♀️
Sometimes estrangement is justified, sometimes not.
🙂
It's a bit confusing FGT because there is a member of GN called ShropshireLass but the OP is ShropshireGal.
A very sensible POV ShropshireLass. You make good, empathetic points. A breath of fresh air.
Happy Christmas!
Good point Madgran.
I would also love it if members of the forum stopped trying to use a few trolls to justify talking poorly about an entire group of people
Sadly trolls are not needed for that to happen! Over the years I have regularly seen this happen with not a troll in sight. 😔
who are the 'them' you are referring too Luminance?
I would like to reassure others that, I myself would never stoop to looking at them with anything other than empathy and kindness because of the behaviour of anyone else. I know my generation seems to make rather a fuss about stereotyping and labelling all sorts of groups but I have never thought that way myself not raised my children to be discriminating.
Yes I agree Sago there's someone out there whose very damaged indeed who needs help, and trolling this forum isn't going to give them that.
Agreed
Let’s hope this thread isn’t hijacked.
I agree entirely with the OP, every case is different and there are two sides to every story.
The troll however is a very damaged and in need of help.
You're not stupid Burrish, the acronyms can be difficult to understand if you're new to GN. EAC = estranging adult child and EP = estranged parent.
Excuse my stupidity but what does EAC EP stand for
This is something as you know Babs that we've been discussing on the estrangement forum for years.
It has always been acknowledged and accepted that some EAC estranged due to their abusive/dysfunctional parents; it has always been acknowledged and accepted that some EP's are indeed abusive, but what drives the unpleasantness are those who refuse to acknowledge and accept that not all EP's are.
The only entire group that's being talked about poorly on this forum are the EP's User. Any EAC trolling this site, targeting and attacking EP's are casting EAC in a bad light and saying so is not using a few trolls to justify talking poorly about an entire group of people.
The trolling is pathetic, honestly. I agree that it could be anyone with any agenda. It doesn't matter who they are though. They will continue as long as people rise to their bait. Those who don't respond are not fun to troll.
I would encourage the person/people trolling to seek therapy instead of posting stupid messages on a forum aimed at hurting strangers. Stop coming to this forum that is causing obvious emotional distress to you.
I would also love it if members of the forum stopped trying to use a few trolls to justify talking poorly about an entire group of people.
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