Another perspective on estrangement

Sallywally1 estrangement is a living bereavement but at least those who estrange us are still living . Last time I saw my grandsons with my son and daughter in law they where 4&2 they are now 8&6. Their brother is 4 knew he was due in July 2020. But don't know his name or date of birth as my son estranged me May 2020 . But I have given my grandson a name as it's hard to think of him without one .

But my son made his choice I had no say as he hasn't spoke or seen me since my birthday which was 4 days before his email . I had no idea what was to come . But he has dumped all over side of the family .

I feel sorry for my grandsons they won't remember me so growing up not knowing they have another nannie ,aunt,uncle ,2 cousins ,great aunt and uncle and 3rd cousins. And no family history on their dad's side. I just hope my son has told them about his dad who died in 2004 when he was 16 and his sister 20 . He's dad was 47 I was 45.

I am lucky I have a loving and caring daughter,son in law and 2 grandson's and living my life to the full. My husband dieing has hurt me far more than what my son has done . I live with that grief everyday and as the years go by it gets worse as my husband has missed so much . He was looking forward to being a grandad in the future unfortunately he had no future . But we had a great past . And my daughter's boys know about their grandad she has told them about and so have I . My husband lives in my children's and grandsons DNA and that gives me comfort.

For me estrangement is like a living bereavement. My little grandson is now ten and I still long to see him

I think anyone whose experienced estrangement from either perspective knows that blood isn't thicker than water.

I agree with your sentiment about not giving anyone the satisfaction of thinking they're so damn important that your happiness is completely dependant on them.

A lot of the posts we see here on GN from EP's and EAC show that we're responsible for our own happiness.

I have found this thread very interesting, I feel equally for estranged adult children, and estranged parents, you can’t possibly generalise, every estrangement will be different.
My only piece of advice would be, once you’ve made your decision, stick to it, and don’t look back.
Blood isn’t necessarily thicker than water, enjoy what you have, and don’t give anyone the satisfaction of thinking they’re so damn important that your happiness is completely dependant on them.

Indeed a large thank you for this discussion, it is helping me carefully consider situations in my own family and what potentially went wrong there. I do not wish to take sides and I will not but I am starting to see my children had the right end of the stick with their thoughts.

A succinct post eddie .

It may not be possible to do something you need to do without hurting someone, but it's usually possible to mitigate that hurt if causing hurt isn't your only/main objective.

In some cases the act of estrangement isn't enough. Lies are told to mutual friends and family member as history, more than being re written is completely fabricated. Great effort goes into trying to cause a split between the parents who've
been estranged and their other child(ren); thank God in our case that this was unsuccessful and our DS was aware of what was going on.

That's a shame still, Babs, but at least a decision made by them rather than the decision of duped parties I guess.

Eddiecat, as I have explained in two of my recent posts and ShropshireGal echoed in hers, I don't think that conclusion is in any way obvious.

I agree, ShropshireGal. The beauty of internet forums is that nobody can make you read or respond to anything at all, you're safe in your home to choose to engage as you like. Anybody who is "picking at scabs" by contributing is doing so of their own accord and I can't see why they'd need the conversation to end entirely when it's completely within their power to just stop following the thread.

Also, ShropshireGal, I think we're in a similar position! For the first time, I will be spending Christmas bereaved and estranged (not by choice but by necessity) and have found this thread helpful

Most EAC aren't stupid. If they recognise that something they intend to do is hurtful but continue to do it anyway, obviously their intention is to cause hurt

Hi All sorts. I'm sorry you feel this post has hurt people. I'm not sure why you consider it some sort of experiment.
I'm an EAC trying to deal with a difficult time of year for those estranged (in both roles) in my own way, and have turned to a forum about estrangement to post on that topic, and have found the conversation between EACs and EPs helpful. I'm grateful to anyone who wishes to engage with the things being discussed, but nobody is forced to engage or share their story if they feel it is "pulling a scab off a wound". I completely agree Christmas is a difficult time of year, and more so for some posters who have shared that their estrangement actually started around Christmas time, but some people do find it cathartic to discuss things, or share their story in hope of helping others, while others do not. Some EAC and EP don't want to go into details and I expect they therefore protect themselves by giving this post a miss, just as I won't be reading any bereavement posts to avoid painful feelings. But that doesn't mean anyone posting in the bereavement forum is trying to "rake things up", and while I don't find it helpful to discuss my experiences on that topic, others will find enormous comfort in sharing their experiences with others and I'm glad that works for some people, just as I hope some people are finding something worthwhile in commenting on this post.

Allsorts lovely post and so true . But unfortunately the trolls will be back and us estranged parents will be getting attacked yet again .

ShropshireGal sorry your thread attracted the trolls but it's always the same . Estrangement is always a target for them . Bah humbug to them.

Merry Christmas to everyone else and hope 2025 is a good year for all. 🎄⛄🥂

I agree Allsorts, let's try and enjoy Christmas with those we love and care about us, of course we will miss certain people, but im thankful for those who have stood my corner.
Happy Christmas 🎅

Thanks Allsorts.
🌺🙏🏾

It's Christmas, such a diffucult time for some families. I don't think trying to rake things up and analyse helps estranged parents. We've moved on and it feels like a pyschio experiment to satisfy a few amateurs,. The trolls piled in now, they are banned, we've this. To continually pull a scab off a wound helps no one, we don't need therapy or analysing , the past is best left where it is. I think this post has hurt people but I for one am glad I wasn't the one that estranged.
💐 Bridie and those with young gc on this Christmas Eve.

Thank you for those who shared their personal experiences. It must be incredibly painful for that to feel like it was sprung on you and in some examples it does at least seem like hurting their EP was intentional.

I understand what you're saying Meseren and think you're right that in some cases the hurt that is inflicted on the EPs is a by-product of the estrangement rather than the intention behind it. That's not to say the EAC aren't aware that cutting contact will hurt their EP, only that the hurt caused isn't the reason or a motivation for doing it. I also agree that returning gifts isn't always done with the intention of causing upset, but accepting gifts when already no contact can feel like giving mixed messages. Gift giving is a particularly complicated issue in estrangement I think.

It is very difficult to understand at times why people do what they do. There is indeed much horror in the world and most of it is caused by human beings. Often there is a motivation or trauma point that began the mental decline. Should someone find themselves estranged by one such then every day their blessings should be tallied. We all know that abusers rarely let a victim find peace, even those who beat their victims are often surprised when they kill to find they went too far. I could not find it within me to spend too much time hurt that one such left my life. I think the relief would be overpowering.

@meseren, yes our other three daughters are also estranged from my side of the family because they knew their older sister was lying and could see the toll it had taken on us

crazyH

*He likely knew it would hurt you and chose to do it anyway, but that still doesn't mean he did it for the purpose of hurting you.*
What on earth are you talking about ? Psycho-babble !!

Oh dear. I didn't intend to confuse, CrazyH

For example: You recently hurt your back and go with a young child to the park. They want you to push them on the swings but doing that would hurt you so you say no. They are upset by this, and you knew that they would be upset by it but you chose to say no anyway. That doesn't mean you said no because you wanted the child to be upset, it was just an unfortunate byproduct of your real intention (protecting your health and wellbeing).

Hope that's less psycho-babble.

I would say when the time comes to end any relationship, it is well known to cause pain, sometimes for all involved. However if the intention were to cause pain then, to do something to hurt and wound so that it could be enjoyed, it would be done repeatedly without allowing recovery.

Babs03

Well there are a litany of hurts that we could list. The abuse and gaslighting, poisonous texts on social media, lies told to my side of the family so that we are estranged from them as well, including my sister and nephews - fact is a cousin who remained loyal to us throughout now says the scales have fallen from the eyes of many who turned against us when we needed them most, but we cannot forget or forgive.
And last but not least the fact we know she tells people we are dead. Easier to explain I suppose.
Our other three daughters were estranged from her before we became estranged and urged to cut off because she was being abusive.
It took a nervous breakdown for me to realise the truth.
We don’t ever want to contemplate the necessity to protect ourselves from our own ACs.
Has taken me 11 years to recover and even now I suffer from anxiety and panic attacks.

What a horrid situation you describe, Babs, and to have tried to continue the relationship despite your daughters urging you otherwise. It is always best to be out of harmful relationships, but that doesn't mean the ending and subsequent distance won't still hurt

If you don't mind me asking, did your other three daughters also end up estranged from your side of the family? You don't have to say, of course. I always find it sad when so many are pulled into "taking sides".

My comment earlier was intended for Meseren

Meseren...that is a clumsy analogy, we are flesh and blood , not stone,, of course our children know what will hurt us!

He likely knew it would hurt you and chose to do it anyway, but that still doesn't mean he did it for the purpose of hurting you.
What on earth are you talking about ? Psycho-babble !!

Smileless2012

Our first GC's first Christmas present just a book, was pushed back through our letter box 12 years ago tomorrow on Christmas Eve, with a note telling us we were no longer a part of our son's and GC' s lives and were to stay away.

No warning. No attempt to address any issues there may have been and no explanation then or now.

I think that shows that our son wanted to hurt us and make us unhappy ShropshireGal, and that was just the beginning.

I'm aware you're referencing that situation as not being an isolated event, but would disagree that the only conclusion of that as a standalone example is that your son wanted to hurt you, Smileless. Of course, the only person who can know that is your son, but it still wouldn't be my first conclusion.

If I returned a gift to somebody who I had decided I didn't want contact with, it would be because I had made a choice (since receiving a gift from somebody, including a gift intended to be passed on to somebody else = having contact) and I was sticking with it, not because I aimed to weaponise it. Being hurt by somebody holding to their decision doesn't mean they held to their decision with the intention of hurting you. The impact doesn't determine the intention.

I understand feeling hurt by his decision not to discuss it with you before cutting ties, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he specifically chose not to discuss it with you because he wanted to hurt you. He likely knew it would hurt you and chose to do it anyway, but that still doesn't mean he did it for the purpose of hurting you. A clumsy analogy: people drink to excess despite knowing they will have a hangover the next day, not because they are aiming to be hungover.

Bridie22

Very similar to what happened to Smileless, a note pushed through the letterbox overnight at xmas, saying to leave them alone as they had nothing to say, no reason, no explanation no communication...just dumped like a bag of rubbish.
Like Babs, it floored me, still does.

Horrible Bridie, and that is how we feel, dumped like rubbish or kicked to the curb, treated worse than they would treat a stranger in the street.
🌺🙏🏾

Very similar to what happened to Smileless, a note pushed through the letterbox overnight at xmas, saying to leave them alone as they had nothing to say, no reason, no explanation no communication...just dumped like a bag of rubbish.
Like Babs, it floored me, still does.