Not fully estranged but gaining depth into what it is

What User said

Eugenia,
Friends are people a person generally chooses to have in his/her life and confide in

Parents - you are born in a family without a choice and depending on tbe relationship you have with your parents, you can rely on them or not

Sadly, very different

There seem to be many parents who are estranged by their AC for no good reason, maybe their AC don’t have great mental health or are entitled narcissists themselves.
What I do know is that it’s a current fashion to say your parents are toxic, horrible word that it is. SM encourages the AC to cut out a parent root and branch.It’s an awful scene in my opinion.

Your friends, that is.

Sara1954

I think friends can be hugely supportive, I know we all probably have a few fairweather friends, but I know for sure, that I could have always depended on my true friends far more than my parents.
and the bonus was, no judgement.

So they never told you you were wrong?

If you ignore the perspective of the people who estranged, you will miss the actual reasons why it happened. There are plenty of EAC sharing their perspective online that provide insight. If you aren't willing to listen because you don't like how the answer makes you feel, that's on you.

If my child estranged me and I didn't know why, the first thing I would do is look for a way to truly understand her perspective. Most of the guesses as to why AC do this is based off of what makes the EP feel like the innocent victim. It's too hard to take accountability for some reason. I see that in your post OP.

It's not that I think every single instance is because the parent went wrong, but it's very telling when that possibility is dismissed or downplayed. It's more likely there was an issue in the relationship dynamic. Claiming it was a good relationship is wishful thinking that ignores a huge amount of evidence. It's easier to think EAC is a terrible person.

Oh so you thought about it and realized you did everything right and they are the problem? Good for you I guess.

Good luck.

I think friends can be hugely supportive, I know we all probably have a few fairweather friends, but I know for sure, that I could have always depended on my true friends far more than my parents.
and the bonus was, no judgement.

Good post Eugenia, I've always thought the same.

Feel so sorry for those with estrangements, to love your AC or AGC and have them blank you must be so terrible to a parent.

Cambsnan

I have good relationships with my children but there have been times when I have not liked what they did. I have always told them I will always love them even if they turn into mad axe murderers. I think estrangements always have faults on both sides. We all get it wrong sometimes. Maybe we expect love to be enough. We don’t always treat nearest and dearest with the respect and effort we put into other relationships such as friendships. Forgiveness, a little space and and always open door can heal rifts. Never give up

What a great message! 🥰

I think that as in all relationships there is a variety of nuance that makes blanket statements problematic.

What one person can handle, another may run for the hills. Neither is wrong.

Just as a couple of adults who make an oath of forever may find themselves divorcing for a myriad of reasons, family relationships may also break down and people may become estranged.

And I think we talk about such things more openly now. I can think of several instances where someone from older generations were disowned by parents for a myriad of reasons: pregnant out of wedlock, being gay, dating someone of the wrong race, religion or social class. It used to be more the parents decision and very hush hush, is the impression I have. One family I knew as a teen, the sister simply was never allowed to be mentioned again, as though she’d never existed.

Elowen33

*It's a mystery to me why other people mean so much more to them than the people who love them in a way nobody else on earth really can, even if they wanted to. Parent/child bond is something so natural and powerful, that's why I feel no other relationship can really replicate or exceed it.*

A persons partner, children and friends can mean more to them than their parents, yet that does not mean they do not love their parents. There is nothing wrong with wanting to spend more time with people other than ones parents.

I hear you. I agree. But, when they start comparing a parent to those friends, acting like the parent comes last in line, if in line at all to those friends, it is something different than just spending time with someone. When they consider the friends as the ones to talk to and shut out the parent completely, that sort of thing. I mean completely; as a parent myself, I only want to know important things, I don't need to know the rest. I don't want to know, actually. But completely being shut out of their life....and that doesn't always mean estranged, but just being left out period, finding out things from other people is not just sad, it's embarrassing when others may tell you things about your own kid you didn't know was going on. Well, let me put it another way, they know your kid from how your kid thinks and presents themselves to those friends. That may be authentic or not, who knows. But the idea you are in the dark completely just feels like a sort of betrayal.

Sara1954

I think that whether you want to believe it or not, some parents do not love their children unconditionally, and therefore don’t deserve love in return
I think it’s wrong to make assumptions about other family dynamics, I’m not saying she did, but the sad story of the young woman who died, may have had a dreadful relationship with her parents, and her friends may have loved and supported throughout her illness, we can never really know.

If you read back on my comment, I acknowledged that I know that and emphasized that minority was not what I was addressing, as estrangment is not limited only to abusive or absent parents. If it was, there would be no discussions or support boards necessary at all. You won't catch parents who do not love their children unconditionally on such forums as these......because they need no support, they are happy as things are.

Cambsnan

I have good relationships with my children but there have been times when I have not liked what they did. I have always told them I will always love them even if they turn into mad axe murderers. I think estrangements always have faults on both sides. We all get it wrong sometimes. Maybe we expect love to be enough. We don’t always treat nearest and dearest with the respect and effort we put into other relationships such as friendships. Forgiveness, a little space and and always open door can heal rifts. Never give up

I completely agree. I believe in forgiveness....apologies need not be huge. Sometimes, no apology, just an acknowledgement of love might just be fine. Or once in awhile, maybe they could try to understand our needs too (we try to understand their needs all the time, but love is a 2 way street, yes?) and once in awhile just let it be. Let us be happy too.

NotSpaghetti

*Eugenia*... not sure where you are getting therapy at 250.
That's an extraordinary fee!

Sorry, I'm not from the UK so I don't know how it is there. I am going by the before insurance fee in the US...

spottybook

An elderly aunt of DH once told me that parents love their children more than the children love them. In some cases this is probably true.

Most likely true. We remember every day from their existance on....they just met us after we are adults. Perhaps that's why?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Sadly I suppose for some, friends really are their tribe. The ‘family’ they choose over relatives. 🤷‍♀️

Sadly, that is true many times...usually when the friends are more exciting in some way, I think. And they know how to "support" without really doing so. I'm here for you is pretty easy to say, especially when you really don't care one way or the other. Friends aren't as invested, so they can simply agree and nod without worrying about any imput or real help. From what I've seen, they just are yes men and just validate whatever is going on, whether it's actually right or wrong.

eddiecat78

I believe there are some cases where an adult child estranges their parent but, because they've always had unconditional love from that parent, deep down they assume that one day they will be able to resume the relationship.
We went to a funeral of a friend who died unexpectedly. He had been estranged from his elder son and that son was at the funeral and was absolutely distraught.
It's an extension of a stroppy teenager saying "I hate you" when they know the parent will continue to love them no matter what they say

Absolutely! They know the parent will continue to love them. Sadly, that seems to be the parents who get dumped more often. I have noticed the parents with more independant attitudes seem to have kids that always beg for attention.....

I didn't say the OP would resonate with everyone BlessedArt or that similar experiences make those experiences the same.

Sara1954

I think that whether you want to believe it or not, some parents do not love their children unconditionally, and therefore don’t deserve love in return
I think it’s wrong to make assumptions about other family dynamics, I’m not saying she did, but the sad story of the young woman who died, may have had a dreadful relationship with her parents, and her friends may have loved and supported throughout her illness, we can never really know.

Precisely. Without knowing the nuances of the individual relationships, we can’t truly know who this young woman’s “safe” spaces were. We don’t know enough to decide for her who her closest loved ones should be. We don’t and can’t know what went on behind closed doors. Family means different things to different people for different reasons.

It’s a blanket generalised statement. Resonating with you or others doesn’t erase the fact that it will not resonate or be the case for many, many others. That is what makes generalisations, generalisations. There are no universal, across the board “truths” when it comes to family conflict. There is only the individuals in individual families with individual challenges. Similar experiences do not make them the same. Everyone is living their own lives. The personalities and experiences involved are their own.

No; have you Magenta?

Has anyone read "I'm Glad My Mom Died" by Jeannette McCurdy?

A good OP Eugenia. You have touched on what many EP's have experienced and are correct that estrangement can happen to the best of parents, something which is at times forgotten.

What a tragic waste eddiecat , distraught at the funeral of a parent you estranged when it's too late for either of you to make amends.

The OP isn't one of blanket, generalised reasons BlessedArt which is why it resonated with me and I'm sure will resonate with other EP's too. Eugenia has touched on what many of us have experienced because there are a lot of similarities in the experiences of EP's.

There will always be faults on both sides because no one's perfect Iam but as you say, who measures 'the fault'. A 'fault' which for some is the reason to make the decision to estrange, for another could never justify such a decision.

Cambsnan

I have good relationships with my children but there have been times when I have not liked what they did. I have always told them I will always love them even if they turn into mad axe murderers. I think estrangements always have faults on both sides. We all get it wrong sometimes. Maybe we expect love to be enough. We don’t always treat nearest and dearest with the respect and effort we put into other relationships such as friendships. Forgiveness, a little space and and always open door can heal rifts. Never give up

Sometimes people do give up because otherwise their mental health will be even more badly affected than by continuing to try. It’s easy to say estrangements have faults on both sides but acknowledging that changes nothing. Also, who measures ‘the fault’
I feel sympathy for the estranged and those who estranged. Often that happens to both ‘sides’

It's a mystery to me why other people mean so much more to them than the people who love them in a way nobody else on earth really can, even if they wanted to. Parent/child bond is something so natural and powerful, that's why I feel no other relationship can really replicate or exceed it.

A persons partner, children and friends can mean more to them than their parents, yet that does not mean they do not love their parents. There is nothing wrong with wanting to spend more time with people other than ones parents.